The Balkan Monarchies: Restoration and Restitution

[USCtrojan]

Originally Posted by Ceallach

On wikipedia it says Ileana Manos, wife of Prince Charles of Orleans, is descended from the Bogdan-Mushat family who once ruled Moldavia, and the Sutzu Phanariot that ruled Wallachia. The Manos are also descended from other notable families from those regions: Callimachi, Racovitza, Cantacuzino, Ghika, and the greek Mavrocordatos family whose did have influence in the area. Maybe that is the confusion, they are descended from Princes of Moldavia and Wallachia just not ones named Manos.

Is she related to the mother of HM Queen Alexandra of Yugoslavia?

[fandesacs2003]

Originally Posted by USCtrojan

Is she related to the mother of HM Queen Alexandra of Yugoslavia?

Yes, she is.
Queen Alexandra descends from Aspasia Manou, daughter of Petros Manos, and Ileana is the daughter of Kostantinos Manos, himself grandson of Kostantinos Manos, brother of Petros.
In two words, Ileana's father and late Queen Alexandra of Serbia, were second cousins.
Ileana is 3rd cousin with CP Alexander.

[Alexandros Hellas]

Greetings..... to be honest i believe the wikipedia information is total rubbish.... The relations of House Mano to other Phanariot families was not of the same level...Mano/Manu/Manos family was allot older and more powerful than the Roseti, Mavrocordatos, Ghyka, Callimachi and Soutso/Sutzo,Sutso, the family dose not have direct marriages with Cantacuzene/Cantacuzenos Imperial House of Byzantium, that relation derives from Soutsos family marrying to one of the daughters of Cantacuzenos brunch in Wallachia.

Sources, Libro D' Oro, Grand Famille de Greece, Albanie et Constantinopole, Ghyka.org

Wikipedia info should not be taken into account, it has the families starting partiarch being George Mano dated in 1570 while the House first came to be in 10th century Genoa.... of course i agree that the Principalities of Wallachia and Moldavia where not directly ruled by Manos members...

Kind Regards
Alexandros

[fandesacs2003]

The book written by Sturdza, "Grandes familles de Grèce ..." is a great guide.
For royal genealogy you can always refer to www.genealogics.org

[Alexandros Hellas]

Greetings

Yes indeed you are correct it is an amazing book, my family has 3 of them !!!
to be honest though genealogics.org confuses me lol

Kind Regards
Alexandros

[fandesacs2003]

Genealogics is a very good site, since you get used on it.
You can even find the parent bonds between 2 royals.

[Alexandros Hellas]

Yes, House of Manos has made 3 Royal marriages in the 20th century. First was Princess Aspasia Manu that married King Alexandros of Greece and her daughter Princess Alexandra that married Petros of Yugoslavia, last one was the marriage of Ileana Manu (3rd niece of Princess Alexandra) to the Dolphin de France Charle Louis D' Orlean.

[Warren]

Some posts have been removed.
A reminder that posts should be in English, and personal conversations are best conducted via PM.

thanks

Warren
Non-Reigning Houses moderator

[USCtrojan]

If a restoration were possible in say Romania or Serbia, would the possibility of becoming part of the EU, or once they are part of the EU, cause problems and can the idea completely?

[Sunnystar]

Originally Posted by USCtrojan

If a restoration were possible in say Romania or Serbia, would the possibility of becoming part of the EU, or once they are part of the EU, cause problems and can the idea completely?

I don't see why it would as there are several countries with monarchies which are part of the EU already.

[MarcosFenn]

As heads of state, monarchs are supposed to some extent to stand above the political fray, yet without doubt the history of monarchies has involved personalities who have been highly adept at the art of the possible.

The question arises, if there is a desire to return to a former monarchical state of governance, to what extent is the monarchical dynasty in question prepared to avoid close identification with narrow, sectional interests?

Even beyond the strictly monarchical context, any feasible attempt at régime change needs to take into account the particular contexts of the day.

Let us just consider for a moment the historical experience of Nicaragua: yes, a republic.

For many years, US sponsorship of the Contras, who wished to remove the Sandinistas from office, was based on the assumption that the Sandinistas would not allow themselves to be voted out of office.

Then the Sandinistas held elections and they were voted out of office. (This was duly presented as a victory for US foreign policy.)

So what happened? Did the US proceed to support the new, conservative government of Nicaragua and efforts to consolidate balanced constitutional development? What actually happened was that foreign policy toward Nicaragua was driven by corporations who wanted the immediate restitution of property and assets from a period before the Sandinistas came to power. This the new Nicaraguan government was unable to deliver.

So then what happened? to the bewilderment of cold war ideologues, the Sandinistas were voted into office again.

The same happened in some Eastern European countries: re-invented ex-communists - ejected from office in 1989/90 were in some countries returned to power by the ballot box.

So before one speaks of restoring a monarchy, there are some very hard questions which will be asked, and failure to ask them will store trouble for the future.

How realistic is it to link the idea of a restored monarchy with the restitution of property, assets and palaces to a deposed royal family, after many years?

Should anyone really be surprised that Eastern European (and Nicaraguan) electorates voted into office the ex-Communists? is it really surprising that the common people of a country do not identify with huge corporations?

More specifically, is a royal dynasty, that seeks to be restored, prepared to spare no effort to identify with the common people and their welfare? or is its track record such that it is likely to be perceived as content to be linked with the narrow economic interests of the few?

The issue is, then, not just whether such and such a monarchy will be restored, but, rather, involves larger questions: what sort of monarchy is it likely to be, if restored? who will benefit? and what sort of a track record does the family, and the political culture among which it was formerly prominent, have?

[CyrilVladisla]

If there was a restoration in Montenegro, would it be a kingdom or would it revert to a principality?

[Mano]

Originally Posted by Alexandros Hellas

Greetings..... to be honest i believe the wikipedia information is total rubbish.... The relations of House Mano to other Phanariot families was not of the same level...Mano/Manu/Manos family was allot older and more powerful than the Roseti, Mavrocordatos, Ghyka, Callimachi and Soutso/Sutzo,Sutso, the family dose not have direct marriages with Cantacuzene/Cantacuzenos Imperial House of Byzantium, that relation derives from Soutsos family marrying to one of the daughters of Cantacuzenos brunch in Wallachia.

Sources, Libro D' Oro, Grand Famille de Greece, Albanie et Constantinopole, Ghyka.org

Wikipedia info should not be taken into account, it has the families starting partiarch being George Mano dated in 1570 while the House first came to be in 10th century Genoa.... of course i agree that the Principalities of Wallachia and Moldavia where not directly ruled by Manos members...

Kind Regards
Alexandros

Any further info?

[Blog Real]

Of the Balkan monarchies, Serbia and Romania are most likely to see a monarchy restored. Bulgaria and Montenegro think it unlikely.

[Toledo]

This morning I was reading about a Balkan monarch whose life seems to be in the background. I was fascinated on the genealogy details that his wife and people from his court were descendants of aristocrats from the Byzantine era that survived within the Ottoman Empire

Alexandru Ioan Cuza, the first domnitor (Ruler) of the Romanian Principalities through his double election as prince of Moldavia on 5 January 1859 and prince of Wallachia on 24 January 1859

His wife, Elena Cuza, was from the Byzantine-Italian Genoa Rosetti family

His mistress Marija Obrenović was the mother of a King of Serbia and everyone ended up in exile in Paris when the Hohenzollerns removed the Cuza Dinasty from the throne