Romanian Succession, Claimants, Titles and Restoration

[Tatiana Maria]

The order of precedence as given on the official website of the family:

Ordinea de precădere în cadrul Familiei Regale a României este următoarea:

MS Margareta, Custodele Coroanei
ASR Principele Radu
ASR Principesa Elena
ES Alexander Nixon
ASR Principesa Irina
John Wesley Walker
ASR Principesa Sofia
ASR Principesa Maria
Nicholas-Michael Medforth-Mills
Doamna Medforth-Mills
Elisabeta-Karina de Roumanie
Michael de Roumanie Kreuger
Angelica de Roumanie Kreuger
Elisabeta Maria Biarneix

https://casamajestatiisale.ro/familia-regala/ordinea-de-precadere/
​

 

[kalnel]

What's the succession these days? Is Margareta likely to reinstall Nicholas Medforth-Mills as her heir?

 

[Heavs]

What's the succession these days? Is Margareta likely to reinstall Nicholas Medforth-Mills as her heir?

Nothing has has changed on that front. He is still not official in the Succession of the Royal House but he clearly wishes to be and/or to have a rival court - witness the Asociatia Principele Nicolae activities and logo (a royal monogram with a crown).

I have said it before but *if* the family want to maintain their semi official status in Romania and theoretically build on it, then he is there best bet from a purely practical stand point. He is the only one of his generation that lives in Romania, speaks Romanian and is interested in a public life. I don't know if they *should* do that, there were public allegations of mob activity and assault along with the paternity issue, but at the moment there's no viable alternative. Especially as it seems that his sister supports her brother and we know little about her except that she lives a hopefully happy private life in the UK.

From what we can gather it is just as much (or more) and issue for Elena than Margarita or Mihai so right now she wouldn't put him back in the succession either.

It will be interesting to see what happens because right now Margarita and by extension her siters have an enviable role in those circles.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

What's the succession these days? Is Margareta likely to reinstall Nicholas Medforth-Mills as her heir?

Nicholas has to reconcile with his mother, Princess Elena, who is the successor as Head of the Royal House.

For his aunt Princess Margareta it probably makes no logic to overrule King Michael's decision and reinstall Nicholas as Nr 3, as long as he is on non-speaking terms witn the Nr 2, who happens to be his very own mother.

 

[Benjamin]

Nicholas has to reconcile with his mother, Princess Elena, who is the successor as Head of the Royal House.

For his aunt Princess Margareta it probably makes no logic to overrule King Michael's decision and reinstall Nicholas as Nr 3, as long as he is on non-speaking terms witn the Nr 2, who happens to be his very own mother.

It is worth noting, Duc et Pair, that your posts on this issue are the only ones which emphasize that the core "problem" is between Princess Helen and her son.

As someone who has corresponded with certain members of this family, that is not the impression that they have concerning the dynamics.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is worth noting, Duc et Pair, that your posts on this issue are the only ones which emphasize that the core "problem" is between Princess Helen and her son.

As someone who has corresponded with certain members of this family, that is not the impression that they have concerning the dynamics.

We know that the waters between mother and son apparently are deep and that it was Princess Elena her very own self whom accused her son, Nicholas, of disregarding "the privacy, suffering and dignity" of the King.

"My son has shown contempt for Romania, her people and the principles of the Royal House. For me, his mother, this behaviour is devastating,"

Link

So it is hardly a fantasy that Nicholas has to reconcile first with Princess Elena (and then comes the next hurdle, his aunt, also possibly not an easy to re-convince person).

 

[Benjamin]

You are welcome to post links to the website of the Royal House, which has certainly released information in the past which was not correct.

Casa Regala is not a neutral or unbiased source. It is simply the most public. There are several facets to this situation.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

You are welcome to post links to the website of the Royal House, which has certainly released information in the past which was not correct.

Casa Regala is not a neutral or unbiased source. It is simply the most public. There are several facets to this situation.

Duc_et_Pair's citation of Princess Elena's own comments on her son is appropriate evidence that there is a rift between them, even without confirmation from the Royal House or other family members. Since this is about Princess Elena's personal frame of mind, Princess Elena herself is surely the best possible source on her own disposition, regardless of her reliability on neutral subjects.

Of course, if there is public information that Princess Elena's comments were less than candid, reported out of context, etc., then that information is also welcome.

 

[kalnel]

It almost doesn't matter if Nicholas reconciles with his mother (if that's necessary), because who else do they have?

Wasn't Princess Irina -- and by extension her children? -- excluded after the cockfighting scandal? Princess Sophie has one daughter, and Princess Marie has no children.

If you back up a generation to the other children of Carol II, I can't see them turning to the Lambrinos.

A generation before that are the children of Ferdinand I. First in line, I suppose, would be Crown Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia and his cousins, then the descendants Princess Ileana.

It looks like Nicholas or nothing, if they want to keep the family's claims alive.

 

[Benjamin]

Wasn't Princess Irina -- and by extension her children? -- excluded after the cockfighting scandal? Princess Sophie has one daughter, and Princess Marie has no children.

Your assessment is correct. As it stands, Princess Helen is first in line, followed by her only daughter, Karina. [Princess Irina and her descendants are excluded from the line of succession.] Princess Sophie is next in line, followed by her only child (I am being particularly deliberate in referring to Sophie's offspring in a gender neutral way - there is a private reason for this which it is not appropriate for me to elaborate on further). Princess Marie is last in line.

 

[Benjamin]

Duc_et_Pair's citation of Princess Elena's own comments on her son is appropriate evidence that there is a rift between them, even without confirmation from the Royal House or other family members. Since this is about Princess Elena's personal frame of mind, Princess Elena herself is surely the best possible source on her own disposition, regardless of her reliability on neutral subjects.

Of course, if there is public information that Princess Elena's comments were less than candid, reported out of context, etc., then that information is also welcome.

Once again, as I wrote to Duc et Pair, the only public expressions of Princess Helen's views have appeared on the website of Casa Regala. There have been several occasions when the online communications of the Romanian royal household have not been totally truthful. If one has followed this "saga" in the Romanian press over the years, it is well known that the primary problems have been between the Custodian of the Crown together with her husband on the one side, and their nephew on the other. As noted by another poster, Nicholas and his sister Karina (who is second in line) are on the same page.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Once again, as I wrote to Duc et Pair, the only public expressions of Princess Helen's views have appeared on the website of Casa Regala. There have been several occasions when the online communications of the Romanian royal household have not been totally truthful.

I have not seen the earlier post in which you wrote that "the only public expressions of Princess Helen's views have appeared on the website of Casa Regala", but do I correctly understand that you are saying the press release issued by Princess Elena and quoted in the Romania Journal article of 2017 did not reflect her true views?

 

[JR76]

I have not seen the earlier post in which you wrote that "the only public expressions of Princess Helen's views have appeared on the website of Casa Regala", but do I correctly understand that you are saying the press release issued by Princess Elena and quoted in the Romania Journal article of 2017 did not reflect her true views?

What Benjamin is saying is that he doesn't agree with Duc's often repeated assessment that the relationship between mother and son lies at the core of the issue of him being removed from the line of succession.
Instead he, like many of us, are certain that the main issue is his relationship with his aunt and her husband.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

You are welcome to post links to the website of the Royal House, which has certainly released information in the past which was not correct.

Casa Regala is not a neutral or unbiased source. It is simply the most public. There are several facets to this situation.

Excuse me, the link goes to Romania Journal, which is a current affairs medium with news, business, sports, culture, society, world, travel. It is not the website of the Royal House

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

What Benjamin is saying is that he doesn't agree with Duc's often repeated assessment that the relationship between mother and son lies at the core of the issue of him being removed from the line of succession.
Instead he, like many of us, are certain that the main issue is his relationship with his aunt and her husband.

We know that the mother was the only member of the Royal House to burn her very own son down to his ankles. For so far I know no aunt or uncle has gone public to damn Nicholas.

The assessment that the head of the Royal House will not come into action as long as there has not been a reconciliation with her very own successor is really not unimaginable or far-fetched.

Just transport it to a family or a family-business, which will be recognizeable for many of us. When a sister is on non-speaking terms with her child, the rest of the family will always have a dilemma because of this rift within the family.

For an example the CEO of a family business will be careful to bring a conflicted family member into the enterprise as long as other members of the board, notably the intended successor as CEO, have not come to an agreement or reconciliation.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

What Benjamin is saying is that he doesn't agree with Duc's often repeated assessment that the relationship between mother and son lies at the core of the issue of him being removed from the line of succession.
Instead he, like many of us, are certain that the main issue is his relationship with his aunt and her husband.

I wasn't replying to the debate about relationships and succession, but to his comments on sourcing.

 

[Dantheman]

Once Elisabeta (Nicholas sister) succeeds can she simply reinstate Michael and let him take charge - she doesn’t appear to really have much interest in it anyway

 

[Blog Real]

Once Elisabeta (Nicholas sister) succeeds can she simply reinstate Michael and let him take charge - she doesn’t appear to really have much interest in it anyway

That must be what will happen. In any case, the future of the royal house must pass through Nicholas, the only one of this generation who is interested in taking on these functions.

 

[Dantheman]

Once Elisabeta (Nicholas sister) succeeds can she simply reinstate Michael and let him take charge - she doesn’t appear to really have much interest in it anyway

Oops sorry I stuffed up I meant Nicholas not Michael

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Once Elisabeta (Nicholas sister) succeeds can she simply reinstate Michael and let him take charge - she doesn’t appear to really have much interest in it anyway

That would be an unprecedented move and very difficult as the Order of Succession is to the legitimate descendants of His late Majesty, King Michael of Romania, Prince of Hohenzollern in order of primogeniture.

Her Majesty Elisabeta Karina, Custodian of the Romanian Crown would then appoint an older relative (and his descendants) into the Order of Succession at the cost of her own position and that of her husband and their descendants (!).

The experience will be that once the sister is the Custodian of the Romanian Crown herself, and has all the wonderful properties and finances at her disposal, that she (and her husband) veeery quickly become accustomed and attached to that very unique position.

Nicholas Medforth-Mills should hope that his aunt Princess Margareta or her successor, his mother, Princess Elena re-instate him. Du moment his sister has become the Custodian of the Romanian Crown herself, the practical point of no return has already passed.

It would be the same as Crown Princess Victoria of Sweden fallen out of grace and out of the line of succession. Then her brother King Carl XVII Philip and sister-in-law Queen Sofia would abstain from the kingship by re-instating former Crown Princess Victoria, at the cost of their own selves and that of their descendants. Do you believe such a thing will ever happen? Of course not.

It can only happen when former Crown Princess Victoria gets re-instated by her father. When her brother has reached the position of King, like Elisabeta Karina, the point of no return has already passed.

Nicholas should stop affiching himself as Prince, he should protest when others name him a prince. He should distance from double-tongued "monarchists" dissaproving the late King Michael and his daughter Princess Margareta for an own shady agenda. He should keep a low and humble profile and do his utmost best to be more than 100% loyal to his aunt and his mother, always defend them and always praise them as amazingly hardworking exemplaric royals with a heart for Romania and Moldova and hope for a reconciliation. That is the only option left for him.

 

[Dantheman]

That would be an unprecedented move and very difficult as the Order of Succession is to the legitimate descendants of His late Majesty, King Michael of Romania, Prince of Hohenzollern in order of primogeniture.

Her Majesty Elisabeta Karina, Custodian of the Romanian Crown would then appoint an older relative (and his descendants) into the Order of Succession at the cost of her own position and that of her husband and their descendants (!).

The experience will be that once the sister is the Custodian of the Romanian Crown herself, and has all the wonderful properties and finances at her disposal, that she (and her husband) veeery quickly become accustomed and attached to that very unique position.

Nicholas Medforth-Mills should hope that his aunt Princess Margareta or her successor, his mother, Princess Elena re-instate him. Du moment his sister has become the Custodian of the Romanian Crown herself, the practical point of no return has already passed.

It would be the same as Crown Princess Victoria of Sweden fallen out of grace and out of the line of succession. Then her brother King Carl XVII Philip and sister-in-law Queen Sofia would abstain from the kingship by re-instating former Crown Princess Victoria, at the cost of their own selves and that of their descendants. Do you believe such a thing will ever happen? Of course not.

It can only happen when former Crown Princess Victoria gets re-instated by her father. When her brother has reached the position of King, like Elisabeta Karina, the point of no return has already passed.

Nicholas should stop affiching himself as Prince, he should protest when others name him a prince. He should distance from double-tongued "monarchists" dissaproving the late King Michael and his daughter Princess Margareta for an own shady agenda. He should keep a low and humble profile and do his utmost best to be more than 100% loyal to his aunt and his mother, always defend them and always praise them as amazingly hardworking exemplaric royals with a heart for Romania and Moldova and hope for a reconciliation. That is the only option left for him.

I do understand what you are saying with Victoria - the main difference I guess is that Elisabeta seems to not be interested in being royal and seems to prefer a very low profile whereas Victoria has been raised in Sweden and is an active member of the royal family. I personally think Margareta has kept a relatively active public presence over the years prior to her father death- but I do not feel like this applies to Elena and Elisabeta and therefore I fear the royal family will eventually just fade away from the public’s awareness- Nicholas is quite active in public and I feel him and Alina could gain good public awareness for the royals if used in a crown prince type way

 

[maria-olivia]

Elena is never in Roumania but remains in the UK with her husband .
Nicholas has his own Court and its purveyors. He is going to Schools speaking about his Grand Father, I don't think they are interested in Royality.
The Custudian and her Husband are invited to most of the European Events. But who will go after her ?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I think Princess Margareta has a genuine interest in the Royal House. She and her husband Radu have been unstoppable to promote the Royal House. And look where they are now... Just a-ma-zing. Yesterday I saw on their instagram that Princess Maragreta and Radu will attend the wedding in Jordan. They did also attend the wedding in Bavaria last weekend (Margareta is a born Princess of Hohenzollern). They were at the Coronation and the new King Charles III is planning to visit Romania soon.

It would be strange when after this very, very succesful and much respected period of Princess Margareta there would be a big black hole, a big black nothing. What with the Palais Elisabeta? What with the castles and domains of Savarsin, Peles and Pelisor? Will it go with to an uninterested Princess Elena whom prefers to live in the United Kingdom?

That is why I think things will fall in place. Either Elisabeta Karina becomes engaged to a partner who stimulates her, encourages her (like Radu did with not so really interested Margareta!) and discovers a new royal life in beautiful Romania. Or Princess Margareta decides to shove away her sister's feelings and decide to rehabilitate her nephew Nicholas. Once she and Radu were so close with him... There must be some love and appreciation left between aunt and nephew, despite all what has happened in the last phase of King Michael's life.

 

[Benjamin]

Elisabeta Palace reverts back to the Romanian state after Margarita and Radu die. It was given to the Royal House for use during the lifetimes of King Michael, Queen Anne, Crown Princess Margarita, and Prince Radu.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Elisabeta Palace reverts back to the Romanian state after Margarita and Radu die. It was given to the Royal House for use during the lifetimes of King Michael, Queen Anne, Crown Princess Margarita, and Prince Radu.

I thought Palais Elisabeta was given in usufruct to King Michael and it took some negotiations with the State of Romania to extend the usage to his daughter and successor? After all, before King Michael issued the Fundamental Rules for the Royal House of Romania (2007) his daughters were no successors at all.

 

[Heavs]

I think Princess Margareta has a genuine interest in the Royal House. She and her husband Radu have been unstoppable to promote the Royal House. And look where they are now... Just a-ma-zing. Yesterday I saw on their instagram that Princess Maragreta and Radu will attend the wedding in Jordan. They did also attend the wedding in Bavaria last weekend (Margareta is a born Princess of Hohenzollern). They were at the Coronation and the new King Charles III is planning to visit Romania soon.

It would be strange when after this very, very succesful and much respected period of Princess Margareta there would be a big black hole, a big black nothing. What with the Palais Elisabeta? What with the castles and domains of Savarsin, Peles and Pelisor? Will it go with to an uninterested Princess Elena whom prefers to live in the United Kingdom?

That is why I think things will fall in place. Either Elisabeta Karina becomes engaged to a partner who stimulates her, encourages her (like Radu did with not so really interested Margareta!) and discovers a new royal life in beautiful Romania. Or Princess Margareta decides to shove away her sister's feelings and decide to rehabilitate her nephew Nicholas. Once she and Radu were so close with him... There must be some love and appreciation left between aunt and nephew, despite all what has happened in the last phase of King Michael's life.

It is true that Magareta and Radu are very good at promoting the House and operating it as a reigning one. It has been extremely impressive to watch, from greeting ambassadors, generals and government figures to giving her own televised Christmas broadcast and participating in many reigning houses events.

I think it more likely that Nicolae will one way or another end up being the Head of House of his generation. He is the only one who has shown an interest - more than an interest, he is actively setting himself up as a sort of alternative royal family. Fascinating in a country where there *is* no reigning House.

We have no idea how his sister lives, apart from privately. We don't even know if she is married or has a serious partner or speaks Romanian. It does seem like she supports her brother as she was present at his wedding.

I'm not saying it *should* be Nicolae but it seems more than likely that if Magareta or Elena want these accomplishments of the Romanian Royal Family to continue then either it's time to start bringing forward an alternative to present publicly and not just be a name on a theoretical succession list, or to being him back into the fold. Not saying he deserves it either or that there aren't legitimate concerns there. Apart from his older daughter there is talk in these threads of ties to gangs and assault charges in Switzerland.

If they can't/won't do either of these two options then they're probably choosing to let the quasi official status die with them. Unless Nicolae tries to force the issue somehow. He too is relentless at promotion for various things including "The history of Royalty in Schools" project/book.

I suspect if the Romanian government finds it helpful to have the next "Custodian" in Elisabeta Palace then they will negotiate with them again.

 

[Prinsara]

If Margareta really disapproves so much of her nephew or what he's currently doing, wouldn't she have been able to have a quiet word with someone and either get him to stop or... not be in Romania? I'm not under the illusion she has power, but she does have influence.

What's the point of having a "reigning" royal house if you let someone unaffiliated (or unworthy) go around the country promoting it?

So maybe the relationship between Margareta and her nephew is not as bad as that between Nicolae and his mother or grandfather... but his aunt prefers not to clarify that for her own reasons.

 

[Iza Borowiec]

Out of curiosity, who would Nicolae's heir if he were reinstated? His daughter Maria-Alexandra or son Mihai?
Romanian royal family seems to have male-preference succession law now but it may be changed to absolute primogeniture by Head of the House.

 

[Somebody]

Out of curiosity, who would Nicolae's heir if he were reinstated? His daughter Maria-Alexandra or son Mihai?
Romanian royal family seems to have male-preference succession law now but it may be changed to absolute primogeniture by Head of the House.

I'd say they would go with Mihai. It was out of necessity that king Mihai decided that his daughters could be successors to... Other non-reigning houses so far haven't made that change as far as I am aware.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Romanian royal family seems to have male-preference succession law now

Correct. https://casamajestatiisale.ro/familia-regala/normele-fundamentale-familia-regala/

I'd say they would go with Mihai. It was out of necessity that king Mihai decided that his daughters could be successors to... Other non-reigning houses so far haven't made that change as far as I am aware.

By "that change" do you mean introducing absolute primogeniture? While rare, the heads of the deposed ruling houses of Anhalt, the Two Sicilies (the Castro line only), Italy (the senior line only), and Bulgaria did make that decision, though in some cases it was only after they ran out of male successors.