King Juan Carlos - Fiscal Investigations, Inheritance and Exile : 2018-2022

[Duc_et_Pair]

JC enjoys limited immunity still, as he is accountable only to the Spanish Supreme Court in Spain. A law was specially passed to give him this limited immunity.

He chose to leave the country when he was under investigation in Spain and Switzerland. He is only now demanding to live in Zarzuela and receive his allowance because the investigations closed (btw, there is no statute of limitations in Switzerland, and JC has no immunity there, so a new investigation could be opened at any time. I think this is why he is suddenly pleading that he is cash poor- perhaps he can't touch his alleged Swiss bank accounts or risk prosecution).

I strongly believe that if he is allowed to live in Zarzuela, it will hurt the current monarchy. And I think J.C. knows this but does not care. He wants what he wants. That's of course the attitude that likely led to his alleged crimes.

Again, I used to be a supporter of his. But I don't think any monarch should be permitted to commit multi-million dollar financial crimes. It's an insult to the rule of law. I'm not holding him to a standard I don't hold myself to. I don't feel it's a standard that is unfair to royals.

What is the base for your assumption that Don Juan Carlos "Is now demanding to live in Zarzuela and receive his allowance"?

For so far I understood the only runour is that apparently the former King has a wish to return to Spain. For so far both Spanish and Swiss Justices have shelved prosecution and Ms Corinna Larsen, a German-born Danish citizen who is a resident of Monaco, has started a procedure in the UK. To me it is not clear why the UK, but okay, I am not Ms Larsen.

By the way, that law passed for immunity as you mentioned, is not at all only for Don Juan Carlos. That law offers protection to thousands of politicians, judges and others from prosecution in the country’s lower courts. Including Queen Letizia, future Queen Leonor and former Queen Sofía.

 

[BriarRose]

"Spain’s former king has demanded that his annual €200,000 state stipend be restored and that he be allowed to live in his family’s palace once he returns from exile."

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...turn-to-palace-with-200-000-stipend-tqvccmz8f

To be clear, though I don't see how it pertains to this, if Queen Letizia, the Princess of Asturias, or Queen Sofia engaged in multi-million dollar financial fraud, they should also be held accountable, and I would not support them getting an allowance or living in Zarzuela. Also, I would adamantly support ending the Spanish monarchy if the corruption was that widespread.

I would have the same opinion for the Queen of England, the King of the Netherlands, the Queen of Denmark, or any other monarch. I believe that no man or woman should be above the law.

By the way, Corinna claims U.K. jurisdiction because she is claiming that the harassment occurred in London. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...laims-immunity-over-spying-on-lover-dv8lzccbm

 

[Mbruno]

I would have the same opinion for the Queen of England, the King of the Netherlands, the Queen of Denmark, or any other monarch. I believe that no man or woman should be above the law.

Nonetheless, the Queen of the United Kingdom, the Queen of Denmark, the King of the Netherlands, and, for that matter, also the King of Sweden, the King of Norway, the current King of Spain, and the King of the Belgians have total immunity against criminal prosecution. If they engaged in criminal behavior, they could potentially be compelled in practice to abdicate, which to a certain extent is what happened to King Juan Carlos, but none of them can be charged with any crime as long as they occupy the throne. It is also debatable if they can be prosecuted a posteriori for crimes that were committed while they occupied the throne, but that is a different legal question.

By the way, although I cannot vouch for JC's innocence, to be fair, he has not been convicted of any crime yet. In fact, the authorities in Switzerland just closed an investigation about him in that country (where he doesn't have any kind of immunity) for lack of evidence. I believe he admitted he was guilty of tax evasion in Spain, but he settled his debt with the Spanish Treasury.

At the moment, what is preventing him from returning to Spain is not that he is a convicted criminal (which he is not), but rather the fact that he has become a political liability.

 

[BriarRose]

What is at issue is whether he should be allowed to live in Zarzuela, which he has no legal right to, conviction or no conviction, and whether Felipe should reinstate his allowance, which he also has no legal right to, conviction or no conviction.

Again, if JC were to return to living at Zarzuela it will hurt the current monarchy. I think it would play directly into the hands of anti-monarchists. There have been zero accusations against Felipe and Letizia. But their reputations will be affected.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

What is at issue is whether he should be allowed to live in Zarzuela, which he has no legal right to, conviction or no conviction, and whether Felipe should reinstate his allowance, which he also has no legal right to, conviction or no conviction.

Again, if JC were to return to living at Zarzuela it will hurt the current monarchy. I think it would play directly into the hands of anti-monarchists. There have been zero accusations against Felipe and Letizia. But their reputations will be affected.

Zarzuela is not a palace but a gated and secured domain with various buildings. It is logical that the former King will be housed there as this is cost-efficient. And the apparently desired allowance is given to King Felipe, so that will be a father-son question.

By the way, exactly because of this dependance on someone else (King Felipe deciding on his father's income), the Dutch State already ended a similar systematic in 1972: no longer the previous and the future King have to "beg" with the current King for an "own" income.

This was too late anyway to prevent a similar financial scandal (Lockheed Affair): the rumoured bribery of Prince Bernhard happened in the 1960's when he was still totally depending on hand-outs by his wife (and had a quite expensive maîtresse and illegitimate daughters to maintain).

 

[tommy100]

Exactly ^ Juan Carlos need not move back into the main palace where he may cast a shadow but I'm sure they can find a property on the Estate for him to live in. After all didn't they (I assume JC mainly) manage to find one for Corinna and her son to live in without her moving into the main building?

 

[An Ard Ri]

The Spanish Royal Family own La Mareta on Lanzarote ,the family used to spend Christmas there up until the death of the late Countess of Barcelona there in January 2000.

Lanzarote is far enough away from La Zarzuela but also in Spain.

 

[Prinsara]

If they're going to send him to the Canary Islands by himself he may as well be back in the UAE.

 

[Mbruno]

The Spanish Royal Family own La Mareta on Lanzarote ,the family used to spend Christmas there up until the death of the late Countess of Barcelona there in January 2000.

Lanzarote is far enough away from La Zarzuela but also in Spain.

It is part of the Kingdom of Spain but not in mainland Spain.

 

[Somebody]

And his niece Alexia would be near by to check on him once in awhile. And given that she is close to her cousins, especially Cristina, Cristina (and Elena) could easily come over as well.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

If they're going to send him to the Canary Islands by himself he may as well be back in the UAE.

La Mareta on Lanzarote, Spain, looks much more appealing than the desert of the United Arab Emirates. But where is the legal backing for a free and not prosecuted Spaniard to be directed and bound to an isle?

In essence Don Juan Carlos is a Spanish citizen, an EU citizen, with rights and freedoms within the EU in general and the Schengen area in particular (no borders). Imagine Don Juan Carlos starting a lawsuit to demand to live anywhere he wishes so: the Spanish State will be in humiliating trouble.

 

[Somebody]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that he will receive a writ of execution telling him to move to place X. Rather, that Felipe and Juan Carlos will come to an agreement in which Juan Carlos voluntarily decides to do X (which might include some perks such as housing and some staff offered by Felipe); just like he went into exile to the UAE. Nobody forced him but it was considered the best solution by father and son.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Also Don Juan Carlos is a very wealthy man who can well afford to look after his own housing needs.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Also Don Juan Carlos is a very wealthy man who can well afford to look after his own housing needs.

If he is so wealthy, why does he -apparently- request to receive an allowance again?

I see inbelievable amounts flashing over the net but, but, but... in hands of others (for an example Ms Larsen) and allegedly coming from Don Juan Carlos.

We do not know what reality is, what he exactly sees when he checks his account on his bank app.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...aging-Spanish-royal-family-expert-claims.html
Speaking to The Times, Pablo Simon, a professor of political science at Carlos III University in Madrid, explained Juan Carlos 'does not care' whether his actions damage his son and his family.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...aging-Spanish-royal-family-expert-claims.html
Speaking to The Times, Pablo Simon, a professor of political science at Carlos III University in Madrid, explained Juan Carlos 'does not care' whether his actions damage his son and his family.

I think the fact JC was born in exile might be of some importance. I’m guessing that in JC’S mind, it’s bad enough that he was born in Italy but dying in exile too is a step too far. That’s the real reason he’s so desperate to get back to Spain, dying out of Spain would be the ultimate humiliation.

 

[Prinsara]

I think the fact JC was born in exile might be of some importance. I’m guessing that in JC’S mind, it’s bad enough that he was born in Italy but dying in exile too is a step too far. That’s the real reason he’s so desperate to get back to Spain, dying out of Spain would be the ultimate humiliation.

If he hadn't been born in exile and exposed to worries about his parents' finances, most of this might not have happened!

I think it's fine if he comes back to Spain, but having him in the tent facing out at Zarzuela or out of the tent facing in are both pretty equally problematic, and I don't think shipping him off to the Canarias is a solution, either. I wish he would go chill with some monks for a while.

 

[Blog Real]

The fringes of the archive of Juan Carlos I: three decrees and the signature of Anticorruption

The Prosecutor's Office awaits the data from the Tax Agency to make public the closure of the investigation into the King, which has a deadline until June.

https://www.larazon.es/espana/20220125/vz2aujbwinbt5mqqtml5jpltz4.html

 

[eya]

The prosecution, closes any investigation into King Juan Carlos as there is no indication of fraud.

https://www-abc-es.translate.goog/e...tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=el&_x_tr_pto=sc

 

[MsJulie]

Since the prosecution closes the investigation into King Juan Carlos fraud, does this open up the return of the King to his country without any charges ever against him? Thanks for any info

 

[lula]

The prosecution, closes any investigation into King Juan Carlos as there is no indication of fraud.

https://www-abc-es.translate.goog/e...tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=el&_x_tr_pto=sc

The judicial closure is not because there was no fraud, but because part of the crimes that occurred while he was Head of State cannot be judged, and the movements after the abdication have been regularized by paying 5 million euros to the Public Treasury.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Since the prosecution closes the investigation into King Juan Carlos fraud, does this open up the return of the King to his country without any charges ever against him? Thanks for any info

I would assume that this is the next step, getting on a plane back to Spain.

 

[lula]

I would assume that this is the next step, getting on a plane back to Spain.

It is an option, but maybe not permanently. Perhaps they have published this at this time in case, given the international situation, it is uncomfortable for the Spanish government that he remain in Abu Dabhi.

He still has the trial that Corinna wants to open in London pending. But perhaps Corinna now has other more important problems considering the Russian friends she has surrounded herself with in recent years.

 

[Blog Real]

I think King Juan Carlos should return to Spain and live out his last years in peace. He did a lot for Spain, he made mistakes, but the fact that he was away from home for so long was punishment enough.
Let the man return to Spain and live the last phase of his life with dignity.

 

[lula]

The House of the King has published a letter from King Juan Carlos to his son King Felipe, in it he says that he has decided to remain residing in Abu Dhabi, but that he will visit Spain frequently, always in a strictly private sphere.

He also says that "I sincerely regret the past events of my private life" and claims his contribution to democratic coexistence and freedoms in Spain.

https://www.casareal.es/EN/AreaPrensa/Paginas/area_prensa_comunicados_interior.aspx?data=117

 

[Somebody]

The House of the King has published a letter from King Juan Carlos to his son King Felipe, in it he says that he has decided to remain residing in Abu Dhabi, but that he will visit Spain frequently, always in a strictly private sphere.

He also says that "I sincerely regret the past events of my private life" and claims his contribution to democratic coexistence and freedoms in Spain.

https://www.casareal.es/EN/AreaPrensa/Paginas/area_prensa_comunicados_interior.aspx?data=117

Thanks for sharing. Of course, this letter was heavily edited and went back and forth multiple times before the final version was decided on.

After reminding everyone that he retired to private life in 2019, Juan Carlos also indicated that he may decide to live in Spain but that in that case it is his intention to organize his personal life and place of residence in private areas (which I assume means: not royal) to enjoy maximum privacy.

En este sentido, tanto en mis visitas como si en el futuro volviera a residir en España, es mi propósito organizar mi vida personal y mi lugar de residencia en ámbitos de carácter privado para continuar disfrutando de la mayor privacidad posible.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Old King Juan Carlos comes with far too much baggage and personally I think its best he stays away and visits in private.

 

[Blog Real]

Translation of the letter from King Juan Carlos to Felipe VI.

"Your Majesty, dear son:

In August 2020, guided by the conviction of providing the best service to Spain and all Spaniards, its institutions and you as King, I informed you of my decision to move out of Spain, to facilitate the exercise of your functions. Since then, I have lived in Abu Dhabi, a place to which I have adapted my way of life and to which I greatly appreciate their wonderful hospitality.

Knowing the Decrees of the State Attorney General's Office, by which the investigations to which I have been the subject are archived, it seems appropriate to consider my return to Spain, although not immediately. I prefer, at this time, for reasons that belong to my private sphere and that only affect me, to continue residing permanently and stable in Abu Dhabi, where I have found peace of mind, especially for this period of my life. Although, naturally, I will frequently return to Spain, which I always carry in my heart, to visit family and friends.

In this way, I would like to end this stage of my life from the serenity and perspective that time has elapsed. As you well know, in 2019 I informed you of my desire to withdraw from public life, and I will continue to do so. In this sense, both during my visits and if I were to reside in Spain again in the future, it is my purpose to organize my personal life and my place of residence in areas of a private nature in order to continue enjoying the greatest possible privacy.

I am aware of the importance for public opinion of past events in my private life and that I sincerely regret, as I also feel legitimate pride in my contribution to democratic coexistence and freedom in Spain, the result of the collective effort and sacrifice of all Spanish people.

Whenever it seems good to you, it is my wish that you make this letter public, for the knowledge of all Spaniards and on the date you deem appropriate.

With my loyalty, affection and the immense pride I feel for you.

Your father"

https://www.casareal.es/ES/AreaPrensa/Paginas/area_prensa_comunicados_interior.aspx?data=117

 

[Prinsara]

So he’s staying there and may drop back in on Spain occasionally.

I appreciate that he apologized and I think there’s a part of him that’s sincere, a bigger part that regrets it all inconveniences him, and it still sounds like he wants to have his cake and eat it too.

At least he agreed to go under the radar.

Edit: Wait, does he sincerely regret what he did or just the public opinion of it?

 

[An Ard Ri]

Edit: Wait, does he sincerely regret what he did or just the public opinion of it?

Where does one start ...best he stays away.