The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Join The Royal Forums Today
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-14-2021, 03:54 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 11,280
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
That's not impossible, but again the argument is also relevant to the change to nobility law which allowed unmarried fathers to pass on their titles. Prior to the law being changed, one could argue that if they could pass on their noble titles to children born out of wedlock, then more noblemen would have or legally acknowledge out of wedlock children.

Regarding the possible increase in maternal surnames, there is no way of knowing for a fact how removing the gender discrimination for titles would affect the choice of names, but my assumption is that it would make little difference. In Germany, a country with shared historical ties to the Netherlands, titles are part of the legal name and, as with other names, can be passed by women to their children. That being the case, most titled women continue to have their children take the name of their father alone.

The difference with Germany is that there the former titles do not exist anymore but have become surnames. A paternal or a maternal surname can be passed to children (or even a combination of both surnames). This is the actually exactly the same in the Netherlands.

But in the Netherlands a title of Nobility or a predicate is a separate part of a surname. It is a title or a predicate. So a gravin Wolff-Metternich can pass her surname to her sons or daughters but not her title. Her children will be Mr and Ms Wolff-Metternich, no graaf / gravin (count / countess) and no hooggeboren heer / vrouwe (highborn lord / lady).

In daily practice nobles seldom or never use their title anyway. It is Eelco Bosch van Rosenthal (a news anchor), he never uses his predicate Jonkheer. It is Sander Schimmelpenninck (a current affairs opinion maker), he never uses his title graaf.

A Dutch millionaire, Robert-Jan van Ogtrop (from a Dutch patrician family) is son of the Hungarian countess Pálffy de Erdőd and had the wish to have his mother's surname and title registered into the recognized and protected Nobility of an EU-memberstate. (Hungary does not know noble titles anymore). Via this way there would be legal counts and countesses Pálffy de Erdőd with their surname and title in passports and in official documents.

But when he learned he could indeed be known as Robert-Jan Pálffy de Erdőd in Dutch municipal administration, but not as a Count, he ended his attempt: there are already Pálffy de Erdőds walking around (see his mother). His aim was exactly to have the noble title formally enregistered.

Was Robert-Jan van Ontrop a German, he could have wished to be known as Robert-Jan Graf Pálffy de Erdőd and his descendants as well, as this is "just" a surname in Germany. So suddenly there would be Grafen and Gräfinnen Pálffy de Erdőd walking around, who are not at all a male-line descendant to a Pálffy de Erdőd. That is a situation the Dutch Government finds "undesireable" and undermining the historic institution of Nobility.

Reply With Quote


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The British Nobility thread Idriel British Royals 1560 10-18-2021 12:03 PM
News from the Spanish Nobility Lia Royal Family of Spain 874 10-16-2021 02:26 PM
Jewels of the British Nobility Julia Royal Jewels 360 04-02-2021 05:23 AM
Swedish Nobility? lord_rankin Royal House of Sweden 38 08-12-2020 08:32 PM
Portuguese Nobility Marengo The Royal Family of Portugal 56 07-05-2020 12:27 PM

Popular Tags
america archie mountbatten-windsor asia asian birth britain britannia british british royal family buckingham palace camilla camilla's family camilla parker-bowles camilla parker bowles china china chinese ming dynasty asia asian emperor royalty qing chinese clarence house colorblindness commonwealth countries coronation crown jewels customs doge of venice duchess of sussex duke of sussex edward vii elizabeth ii family tree fashion and style gemstones george vi gradenigo hello! highgrove history hypothetical monarchs japan japanese imperial family japan history jewellery kensington palace king edward vii liechtenstein lili mountbatten-windsor line of succession list of rulers medical meghan markle monarchist movements monarchists mongolia names plantinum jubilee politics portugal prince harry royal ancestry solomon j solomon spanish royal family state visit st edward sussex suthida thai royal family tradition unfinished portrait united states united states of america wales

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:35 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises