General News for the Cambridge Family Part 3: March 2017-September 2022

[Osipi]

Dabbling in Oddities

Now here's a very odd scenario.

The Cambridges all die in a helicopter crash. Harry becomes king after Charles passes away. Due to unfortunate events, Harry and Archie both pass away in an awful car crash. The end result? We have an American citizen that is Queen Lilibet of the UK

Sorry... had to do it. The strangest part though is that it *is* possible.

 

[Prinsara]

Harry could sign his succession rights away, perhaps, like the Duke of Windsor. Couldn't he?

If someone is uninterested in working for the Monarchy under nearly any conditions how can they be allowed to ascend and reign?

(And then we'd have Andrew, so he'd better sign too.)

 

[Iluvbertie]

Harry could sign his succession rights away, perhaps, like the Duke of Windsor. Couldn't he?

If someone is uninterested in working for the Monarchy under nearly any conditions how can they be allowed to ascend and reign?

(And then we'd have Andrew, so he'd better sign too.)

The Duke of Windsor signed away his rights via legislation that at that time only needed to be passed in the UK. He wanted to abdicate and marry Wallis Simpson. As he also had no children he also signed away any rights for any yet to be born children.

Harry could ask for the legislation to be passed to remove him ... but not his children as they are already here. The legislation for them could only be passed after they turned 18 and were able to decide for themselves, although they could do so, then, for any yet to be born children.

It would still require the legislation to be passed in the other realms according to their own constitutions and laws, as was seen with the Succession to the Crown Act - some simply accept UK laws regarding succession while others will debate and pass themselves if they can be bothered. They will still need a reason ... and 'I don't want to' probably would see quite a few decide 'if you don't want the gig then we don't want you' and a number would become republics.

 

[Princess_Eleanor]

I understand where you are coming from but I believe it would be unrealistic to forgo the use of helicopters. Train journeys are nice but they don't deliver you and your requisite security to your destination. The same goes for scheduled airlines.

At this point in time, the BRF is operating at a deficit and questions about who is working how many engagements a year is a big deal. People erroneously demand "value" for their money and the Cambridges workload over the last year is far from inspiring.

Anne, Charles and Camilla each did more events than both William and Catherine together and it is being reported internationally that they are sliding back into their previous lifestyle. Strangely, using a helicopter to move more quickly to and from various engagements ostensibly to enjoy family time seems to be the Cambridge raison d'être.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyl...yals/AWIGYS6QXOSWAEJSKEDKFK6UJY/?ref=readmore

I understand that using a helicopter can be the better option for certain engagements, but this is about them using a helicopter to fly from London to their country home in Norfolk on weekends with the children. This has been reported before, and I don't think that's a great thing to do for someone who is preaching about the environment.

But okay, according to these articles, they will heed the Queen's wishes for them to stop going by helicopter as a family (due to the Queen's fear of the whole family being wiped out, leaving Harry as the heir and sparking a constitutional crisis). According to the articles, that's why they are looking for a country home in Windsor, as has been reported before - where they will drive from London, I suppose.

 

[MARG]

I understand that using a helicopter can be the better option for certain engagements, but this is about them using a helicopter to fly from London to their country home in Norfolk on weekends with the children. This has been reported before, and I don't think that's a great thing to do for someone who is preaching about the environment.

But okay, according to these articles, they will heed the Queen's wishes for them to stop going by helicopter as a family (due to the Queen's fear of the whole family being wiped out, leaving Harry as the heir and sparking a constitutional crisis). According to the articles, that's why they are looking for a country home in Windsor, as has been reported before - where they will drive from London, I suppose.

Princess Eleanor, the point I was trying to make, obviously not too clearly, is that we have no proof that HM has said anything although I am sure that Prince Charles may have. The point I am trying to make is that there are questions about the work ethic of the Cambridges and their increasing use of helicopters for personal convenience rather than work related necessity.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

It is reported in many media outlets and not just The Sun.

But Osipi is correct as The Sun is the source of the report picked up by other media outlets.

Harry could ask for the legislation to be passed to remove him ... but not his children as they are already here. The legislation for them could only be passed after they turned 18 and were able to decide for themselves, although they could do so, then, for any yet to be born children.

Please see here for my reply: https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...ession-to-the-throne-5254-12.html#post2443866

As a consequence, I continue to be confused by the weirdness that any negative comment about the Cambridge's seem to result in post after post about Harry being a threat to the Cambridge's in some inexplicable way. Why? Is it just deflection or a chance to smack down Harry since the Sussex threads are quite sensibly closed?

Which "post after post" do you refer to? I cannot see any such post as you describe on the last page.

 

[Hallo girl]

Princess Eleanor, the point I was trying to make, obviously not too clearly, is that we have no proof that HM has said anything although I am sure that Prince Charles may have. The point I am trying to make is that there are questions about the work ethic of the Cambridges and their increasing use of helicopters for personal convenience rather than work related necessity.

Could I ask who are raising questions with regards the work ethic of the Cambridges.
My observation has been that during the pandemic they have risen to the challenge.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The question about the Cambridge's work ethic - especially Catherine - related to her number of engagements this year. I have her on 117 so far while she did 130 last year and 130 for 2019 so she hasn't actually 'stepped up' this year but done less than she did last year which saw the country locked down for about as long.

Interestingly of those 117 this year she did 76 to the end of June and only 41 in the 2nd half of the year - after the lock down was lifted.

William is the same - a lot more in the part of the year while locked down but much fewer since - 167 to the end of June, at which time he had done 27 more than his father and 12 more than Anne - both of whom are well over 100 more than him by the end of December.

In other words - when able to do zoom calls for about 10 minutes they did a lot but when they had to actually get out and do things they have largely done very little while Charles and Anne got out and did things as soon as possible.

I am simply using my figures which show that once the lock down was lifted the Cambridge's clearly stopped working as hard compared to how much they did when they could simply make phone calls or use zoom. If that is the way they want to work - fine - so long as they realise that people actually want to see them in person.

Catherine undertook official duties on 64 days while William did them on 105 days. The Queen worked on 103 days as a comparison, Charles 147 and Anne 168. These are of course only official duties as recorded in the CC and we all know that there is preparation etc that goes into many of these engagements but it seems that the Cambridge's did more engagements when they were home schooling their children compared to how many they did when the children were at school.

 

[caethi]

"The question about the Cambridge's work ethic - especially Catherine - related to her number of engagements this year. I have her on 117 so far while she did 130 last year and 130 for 2019 so she hasn't actually 'stepped up' this year but done less than she did last year which saw the country locked down for about as long"

The pandemic is still raging. Caution is still required. The Cambridges have a very young family and they are involved parents. Much of their work requires them to do an enormous amount of background work and preparation. Sure, they have staff, sure they are privileged, but their work ethic can not and should not be measured by public appearances alone.

 

[Hallo girl]

"The question about the Cambridge's work ethic - especially Catherine - related to her number of engagements this year. I have her on 117 so far while she did 130 last year and 130 for 2019 so she hasn't actually 'stepped up' this year but done less than she did last year which saw the country locked down for about as long"

The pandemic is still raging. Caution is still required. The Cambridges have a very young family and they are involved parents. Much of their work requires them to do an enormous amount of background work and preparation. Sure, they have staff, sure they are privileged, but their work ethic can not and should not be measured by public appearances alone.

I agree, we are outsiders looking in. We cannot know what else is going on inside the palace walls.
I watched a programme sometime ago about Charles and the Duchy of Cornwall, William was taking part in visits and learning about the set up.
I am sure there is a great number of similar exercises going on behind the scenes.
Just as Charles is stepping up taking more responsibility, William is being prepared for changes that will affect him.

Despite what other posters have noted I have not seen any criticism of the workload.

 

[Osipi]

OK. Serious question from an American that is daft in a lot of stuffs British. Would the Cambridge helicopter use or the work ethics of the Cambridges, in any way create a constitutional crisis in Parliament?

Going back to the Sun article that was posted here (I didn't read it, I don't do tabloids), the headline stated that the Queen fears a constitutional crisis should the Cambridges crash and burn. We got off on tangents relating to work ethics and I'm now wondering if that could create a constitutional crisis. Those two words I took to be the focus point of the Sun article.

 

[Denville]

OK. Serious question from an American that is daft in a lot of stuffs British. Would the Cambridge helicopter use or the work ethics of the Cambridges, in any way create a constitutional crisis in Parliament?

Going back to the Sun article that was posted here (I didn't read it, I don't do tabloids), the headline stated that the Queen fears a constitutional crisis should the Cambridges crash and burn. We got off on tangents relating to work ethics and I'm now wondering if that could create a constitutional crisis. Those two words I took to be the focus point of the Sun article.

I presume that its because there used to be a rule about heirs travellling on the same plane etc and it seems that that rules gone into abeyance and perhaps its easier to "forget about" if they are doing a lot of coptering... and if all of the Cambs were in a helicopter and it crashed......

 

[Osipi]

I presume that its because there used to be a rule about heirs travellling on the same plane etc and it seems that that rules gone into abeyance and perhaps its easier to "forget about" if they are doing a lot of coptering... and if all of the Cambs were in a helicopter and it crashed......

Would that rule be in the unwritten constitution and therefore get Parliament's panties in a royal twist and create a crisis though?

I remember the hysterics and hoopla Charles and Diana created when flying to Australia back in 1983 and took William with them. Two heirs on one flight.

 

[Hallo girl]

OK. Serious question from an American that is daft in a lot of stuffs British. Would the Cambridge helicopter use or the work ethics of the Cambridges, in any way create a constitutional crisis in Parliament?

Going back to the Sun article that was posted here (I didn't read it, I don't do tabloids), the headline stated that the Queen fears a constitutional crisis should the Cambridges crash and burn. We got off on tangents relating to work ethics and I'm now wondering if that could create a constitutional crisis. Those two words I took to be the focus point of the Sun article.

No they wouldn't Osipi. The other unimaginable scenario would. I have only seen comments 're the work ethic on here.

 

[Alison H]

No-one's raising any questions about the Cambridges' work ethic, as far as I'm aware. They're extremely popular. But it always used to be the case that the direct heirs didn't fly together in case, heaven forbid, there was an accident - and a helicopter is not as safe as an aeroplane.

What's being reported is that there've been a few incidents involving royal helicopters and that that's what's panicked the Queen - which is quite understandable. Apparently one had a technical fault, and both Sophie and Camilla have had near-misses with other aircraft coming close to their helicopters, and she's also nervous about them flying in bad weather.

 

[Osipi]

No-one's raising any questions about the Cambridges' work ethic, as far as I'm aware. They're extremely popular. But it always used to be the case that the direct heirs didn't fly together in case, heaven forbid, there was an accident - and a helicopter is not as safe as an aeroplane.

What's being reported is that there've been a few incidents involving royal helicopters and that that's what's panicked the Queen - which is quite understandable. Apparently one had a technical fault, and both Sophie and Camilla have had near-misses with other aircraft coming close to their helicopters, and she's also nervous about them flying in bad weather.

Shows to go ya that the Queen really is concerned about the welfare of her family. Bet they don't put this in "The Crown" at all.

 

[Denville]

Would that rule be in the unwritten constitution and therefore get Parliament's panties in a royal twist and create a crisis though?

I remember the hysterics and hoopla Charles and Diana created when flying to Australia back in 1983 and took William with them. Two heirs on one flight.

well, there is a difference between an occasional flight with 2 heirs, ie C and William and frequent flights with Will and ALL his kids which I take it is what has happened. I honeslty dont think it is a good idea but it does seem like the strict rule has gone into abeyance some time ago....

 

[Iluvbertie]

"The question about the Cambridge's work ethic - especially Catherine - related to her number of engagements this year. I have her on 117 so far while she did 130 last year and 130 for 2019 so she hasn't actually 'stepped up' this year but done less than she did last year which saw the country locked down for about as long"

The pandemic is still raging. Caution is still required. The Cambridges have a very young family and they are involved parents. Much of their work requires them to do an enormous amount of background work and preparation. Sure, they have staff, sure they are privileged, but their work ethic can not and should not be measured by public appearances alone.

So having a young family means being more cautious than people in their 70s who have increased their workload since the lifting of lock down. In fact the Duke of Gloucester has done about as much as Catherine and that has been a lot of visits since then while the engagements the Cambridge's did was more during lock down when they were on zoom a lot of the time.

ALL of the family have to do the background work and preparation for engagements. Why the older royals have been able to increase their number of engagements since the lifting of lockdown while the two younger royals have slowed down doesn't make sense.

Up to the end of June and the lifting of lock down (which I know was two weeks later but close enough) the 'over retirement age' royals i.e. those over 65 or the ones most at risk from covid were doing 49% of the total engagements. At the end of the year that number rises to 67% of the total for the year which means that over two-thirds of the engagements for the year are done by those most at risk. After the lock down was lifted, and the royals started to come into contact with other people, saw the older royals doing a lot more. Even the Duke of Kent and Princess Alexandra - both in their 80s and both with known health issues, increased their engagements in contact with people in the 2nd half of the year while those with the lower risk did less.

That is what the media are on about - Catherine has not 'stepped up' as expected given that the older royals doubled or even more their engagement totals after lifting lock down while Catherine, and William, did considerably less and they no longer had the excuse of 'home schooling' their children. To the end of June William and Catherine combined had done 25% of the total engagements but at the end of the year they have a combined total of 16% while the over 80s increase from 3% to over 5% and the 70s go from 41% to 52% of the total. If covid was such a concern in the 2nd half of the year when the country opened up surely those most at risk - the over 70s and over 80s would have been doing less not more?

 

[Osipi]

One thing I think us posters here are wise enough to know is that the numbers of engagements or how many are squeezed into a day or how long they are and the methods used are not a competition.

Each royal that does engagements and duties in the Queen's name is part of "Team Windsor" and *all* of them go for approval from "The Boss" before executed. The only time the Queen really cares about who comes in first is when she has a horse in a race.

So having a young family means being more cautious than people in their 70s who have increased their workload since the lifting of lock down. In fact the Duke of Gloucester has done about as much as Catherine and that has been a lot of visits since then while the engagements the Cambridge's did was more during lock down when they were on zoom a lot of the time.

ALL of the family have to do the background work and preparation for engagements. Why the older royals have been able to increase their number of engagements since the lifting of lockdown while the two younger royals have slowed down doesn't make sense.

It makes sense to me because when you think about it, the Cambridges are the only working senior royals with young children at home. With the release of lockdowns and restrictions, it's possible that those kids went back to school, had school activities that involved the parents and other things like that.

Personally, if it was me with my kids at a young age and I was locked down with them, I'd probably be *begging* for more engagements to get me the heck out of the house!! I love them dearly but being locked up with them for a long, extended period of time would drive me over the edge.

BTW: I really appreciate that we can turn to you for the low down and the specific data when it comes to engagements and duties.

 

[Heavs]

Would that rule be in the unwritten constitution and therefore get Parliament's panties in a royal twist and create a crisis though?

I remember the hysterics and hoopla Charles and Diana created when flying to Australia back in 1983 and took William with them. Two heirs on one flight.

The crisis would be if it crashed and the entire family died leaving two unpopular adults (for very different reasons etc) next in line, plus the children obviously. There's no actual crisis about them travelling together per se or even on a purely theoretical note, having to go down the LOS - that's what it's there for. Just a "what if". It has been waived before. Charles, William and Harry were given permission to travel on the same plane due to various thing like QEQM's death.

But yes, mostly she doesn't want them all to die.

In regards to the Cambridge's work ethic, I've seen no indication that there's any sort of public complaining over it. In fact whilst the number of engagements have gone down this year they received a lot of goodwill during the pandemic and that's mostly kept going. William in particular seems to have been all over the place with Earthshot etc recently and although that's actually *less* than Anne, hers unfortunately so rarely get the publicity they deserve.

Could they step it up more? Yes. Is it one of the current big issues? Not yet. Kate did have that "we haven't seen her for 60 days, she must be pregnant" kerfuffle over the summer but that's when the family mostly aren't working anyway.

 

[Iluvbertie]

It makes sense to me because when you think about it, the Cambridges are the only working senior royals with young children at home. With the release of lockdowns and restrictions, it's possible that those kids went back to school, had school activities that involved the parents and other things like that.

Personally, if it was me with my kids at a young age and I was locked down with them, I'd probably be *begging* for more engagements to get me the heck out of the house!! I love them dearly but being locked up with them for a long, extended period of time would drive me over the edge.

BTW: I really appreciate that we can turn to you for the low down and the specific data when it comes to engagements and duties.

During the lock down thought they weren't leaving the house. They were doing engagements via zoom.

Since lock down they should have been able to do engagements during the school day but they did less when the kids weren't around then when they were.

 

[HenRach Dominion]

Maybe many of the events HRH The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge were going to do were cancel due to COVID? Or maybe they're worried that they'd be too far away from home if their children's school suddenly shuts down for the same reason?

Their numbers decreasing is concerning, but I believe that they are significant background reasons for it rather than HRH The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge shirking off their responsibilities.

 

[Sunnystar]

During the lock down thought they weren't leaving the house. They were doing engagements via zoom.

Since lock down they should have been able to do engagements during the school day but they did less when the kids weren't around then when they were.

Maybe many of the events HRH The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge were going to do were cancel due to COVID? Or maybe they're worried that they'd be too far away from home if their children's school suddenly shuts down for the same reason?

Their numbers decreasing is concerning, but I believe that they are significant background reasons for it rather than HRH The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge shirking off their responsibilities.

When were vaccinations for 6-12 year olds approved in the UK? They have 3 kids all under the age of 12, 1 of whom isn't even eligible for a vaccination still because there aren't any approved for 0-5 year olds. Perhaps they are being cautious about the in-person events until they can vaccinate their kids. They need to be mindful and aware of the entire school community, not just their own family.

I say give it some time and let's see what their numbers are looking like once Louis is in school full-time along with George & Charlotte, as well as life being much more back to normal once this Omicron wave has been ridden out. If we're still seeing low numbers from them, then the work-shy narrative might have some weight.

 

[yukari]

I'm thinking it's about media exposure. It can be said that currently the Cambridges are hot commodity. Even with just releasing a photograph without doing any engagement that qualify to be put in CC, they still make front page. And it should also be noted that the Cambridges have different type of "engagement"/project than say, the Princess Royal or the Duke of Gloucester with C's Early Years and W's Earthshot. There's a lot of promotions before the event, the event itself, the broadcast, then the aftermath.

Take the latest C's Christmas Carol, it keeps appearing in the media even now prior to being broadcasted even though it's already passed. It doesn't look like this Carol is something that just came out out of the blue and organised in a week, there's a lot happened behind the scene; for one, the invitees were nominated by the local communities so at least there's informing them, shortlisting the nominations, inviting them and so on. And I doubt she just stayed at home, letting her staff did everything without her participating until it's time for her to appear at Westminster Abbey to smile and look pretty.

If they (especially she) started to appear here and there visiting hospice etc, wouldn't it caused media saturation with no highlight because it's just one thing after another, where one engagement overshadowing the other? (Not to mention other royals who need their causes to be highlighted by the media too).

And one of the " unfairness" of CC numbers that always bugs me is doesn't it's said that the Queen checks the red box every day? So it means she works every day, right?

 

[SLV]

I can also imagine W&C picking up duties in the first half during lockdown, because it was considered less safe for the (older) Charles and Anne to go out.

 

[Iluvbertie]

William and Catherine did NOT go out either. They did zoom meetings or phone calls. When they could go out and meet people and be seen they have chosen to not do so but to stay out home. As the older royals started to go out and about the Cambridge's decided to stay at home and not even do as many zoom meetings.

 

[yukari]

I can also imagine W&C picking up duties in the first half during lockdown, because it was considered less safe for the (older) Charles and Anne to go out.

Well, considering most of engagements during that period were phonecalls and zooms, technically there's no reason why the older royals couldn't do it.
(Unless they preferred to do it in in-person engagement, hence it's all packed up in the second half of the year when it's possible to do it).

 

[Heavs]

I'm thinking it's about media exposure. It can be said that currently the Cambridges are hot commodity. Even with just releasing a photograph without doing any engagement that qualify to be put in CC, they still make front page. And it should also be noted that the Cambridges have different type of "engagement"/project than say, the Princess Royal or the Duke of Gloucester with C's Early Years and W's Earthshot. There's a lot of promotions before the event, the event itself, the broadcast, then the aftermath.

Take the latest C's Christmas Carol, it keeps appearing in the media even now prior to being broadcasted even though it's already passed. It doesn't look like this Carol is something that just came out out of the blue and organised in a week, there's a lot happened behind the scene; for one, the invitees were nominated by the local communities so at least there's informing them, shortlisting the nominations, inviting them and so on. And I doubt she just stayed at home, letting her staff did everything without her participating until it's time for her to appear at Westminster Abbey to smile and look pretty.

If they (especially she) started to appear here and there visiting hospice etc, wouldn't it caused media saturation with no highlight because it's just one thing after another, where one engagement overshadowing the other? (Not to mention other royals who need their causes to be highlighted by the media too).

And one of the " unfairness" of CC numbers that always bugs me is doesn't it's said that the Queen checks the red box every day? So it means she works every day, right?

I think that's something that's going to stay long term, even when they become Prince and Princess of Wales, that they want to do a different type of engagement than Charles, Anne and the Kents and Gloucesters.

Even the non Early Years/Earshot projects reflected this a little: When Kate came back from the summer break she didn't do a huge amount of engagements but those she did do all tied into each other - military, mental health, photography, outdoor activities, holocaust, early years etc. Someone had clearly put a lot of planning in.

Whether or not that's going to be feasible, popular or a good idea to carry that on in the future is another matter of course when more than just your personal passion patronages need supporting. There's a lot of discussion about the pros and cons of "professional ribbon cutting" on here. Personally, I hope they find a good balance between the big projects and the workhorse visits to those who deserve official acknowledgement of their projects but don't necessarily need long term investment.

This went up on their Instagram last night:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CXzU3I3N1pZ/

I think it's clear they're keen to show that Kate put in more effort than getting her staff to organise it and turning up.

 

[Osipi]

William and Catherine did NOT go out either. They did zoom meetings or phone calls. When they could go out and meet people and be seen they have chosen to not do so but to stay out home. As the older royals started to go out and about the Cambridge's decided to stay at home and not even do as many zoom meetings.

aHa! Therein lies the difference that I forgot to include when mentioning being in lockdown with my kids when they were small (3 under 5 at one point) in the earlier 70s.

There was no Zoom or video conferencing by phone. All we had was a remote control which the kids constantly fought over, I was a stay at home mom and to most people, a computer took up an entire room and was not a household item at all. Oh yes, I would have begged, pleaded, pulled any trick out of a hat to get me the heck out of there at that time.

We probably could discuss the Cambridge situation during lockdown against other working royals until the cows come home (still wonder where the heck them cows went off to) but what really matters is whatever any working royal did was part of them all being "Team Windsor" and regulated by "The Boss" and I've not heard any complaints from her at all. It's mostly the media pitting them against each other.

 

[yukari]

(...)

We probably could discuss the Cambridge situation during lockdown against other working royals until the cows come home (still wonder where the heck them cows went off to) but what really matters is whatever any working royal did was part of them all being "Team Windsor" and regulated by "The Boss" and I've not heard any complaints from her at all. It's mostly the media pitting them against each other.

They asked pigs to teach them how to fly, but got lost somewhere while doing it