Duke and Duchess of Windsor (1894-1972) and (1895-1986)

[Curryong]

I very much doubt that Edward would have repeated the thoughts of the last person who spoke to him if they had been Socialist. He remained right wing in his views (and anti Semitic) all his life. (There wouldn't have been too many upper class English people who referred offensively to 'Yids' as late as the 1960s, long after the Nazi Holocaust and in conversation to a Jewish woman, at that) He remained wedded to the thought (like Oswald Moseley) that Britain need not have gone to war with Germany after the war and until he died, and in fact was reproved by George V for making a speech to British ex serviceman espousing this in 1935.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Curryong

I very much doubt that Edward would have repeated the thoughts of the last person who spoke to him if they had been Socialist. He remained right wing in his views (and anti Semitic) all his life. (There wouldn't have been too many upper class English people who referred offensively to 'Yids' as late as the 1960s, long after the Nazi Holocaust and in conversation to a Jewish woman, at that) He remained wedded to the thought (like Oswald Moseley) that Britain need not have gone to war with Germany after the war and until he died, and in fact was reproved by George V for making a speech to British ex serviceman espousing this in 1935.

I think we are dealing with different topics here:


1) The idea that Britain didn't have to go to war with Germany in 1914 is not that out of the mainstream. In fact, in the centenary of World War I, we saw several well-known (and controversial) British historians, including Niall Ferguson who now lives in the US, defending precisely that point of view and almost blaming the UK for WWI. I happen to disagree with that opinion and, in most debates, that position is normally on the losing side, but it is, nonetheless, again a relatively frequent opinion in some circles. I can't tell how people felt about it in 1930s, but, in that respect, it wouldn't shock me David/Edward also thought that WWI had been an unnecessary war.


2) Likewise, the idea that Britain did not have to go to war with Germany in 1939 and, even more so, that Britain should have made peace with Germany after Germany de facto "won" the war in 1940 again was not an eccentric opinion at the time. In fact, it was the view of a considerable section of the British government and, I would dare to say, with respect to a peace agreement, it was something that even George VI would have gone along with (after all, Lord Halifax was his preferred choice for PM). Thankfully, as it happens sometimes in history, an unlikely protagonist like Churchill and a bit of luck combined with wrong decisions on the other side (in episodes like Dunkirk and the Battle of Britain) , were able to steer events in a different direction which, in the long run, was good for Europe and good for the world. Again, however, I wouldn't fault David/Edward too much for thinking like that at that time, if he actually did.


3) A third and completely different thing from the two points above would be David/Edward being a fascist or a Nazi sympathizer, or advocating fascist government in the UK or Nazi-like policies with respect to Jews or other minorities. I don't think there is any hard historic evidence of that being really true, although there are suspicions and there is this often common narrative in fictional literature where, if Hitler had succeeded to invade and occupy the UK in 1940-41, Edward would have gone along with a puppet fascist regime as long as he was reinstated as king with Wallis as queen. My point before, however, was that, if Edward was indeed a fascist or a Nazi, then, unlike appeasement in (1) and (2) above, his opinion would not be mainstream. The mainstream appeasers were against the war, but they were not fascist.

[MARG]

Edward was very conscious of "who he was" and didn't mix with the masses until asked, at which point he rabble roused the miners and made promises he could not possibly fulfil. But damn, that a good photo op.

The man was vain and was courted by the Germans as PoW, as King and as DoW. When he visited Germany it was against British advice but he and Wallis went anyway and were treated like the King and Queen of England.

As to him being pro-Nazi, perhaps he was but, history has to be remembered in its own time and place, not with 20/20 hindsight. I would like to think that at the outset, Hitler being as charismatic as he was, stirred a beggared country and restored both the economy and the national pride in Germany. Internationally that was acknowledged and admired but outsiders missed or dismissed the importance, things such as the Nuremberg Laws and what they meant.

When we hear the word Nazi these days we shudder, but back then they could not even imagine the depths of depravity they were capable of. Not even the German people.

[Denville]

however even when the war was over and the horrors of the HOlocaust were well known, David remained anti Semitic and "didn't think that Hitler was such a bad chap@.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Curryong

I very much doubt that Edward would have repeated the thoughts of the last person who spoke to him if they had been Socialist. He remained right wing in his views (and anti Semitic) all his life. (There wouldn't have been too many upper class English people who referred offensively to 'Yids' as late as the 1960s, long after the Nazi Holocaust and in conversation to a Jewish woman, at that) He remained wedded to the thought (like Oswald Moseley) that Britain need not have gone to war with Germany after the war and until he died, and in fact was reproved by George V for making a speech to British ex serviceman espousing this in 1935.

All the same I don't suppose it was a serious interest iof his, politics. He was right wing, certainly, didn't do well n the Bahamas, and he did hang out with fascist supporters. But all the same, I dont think he was that exercised about politics per se, he woud hang out iwht a rich socialist if one offered him hospitality.. or a Jew if they were rich and socially prominent..

[Denville]

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

The Sunday Express claimed that the exile of Edward VIII in France was self-imposed.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/426976

Clearly it wasn't...

[Queen Claude]

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

The Sunday Express claimed that the exile of Edward VIII in France was self-imposed.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/426976

The Sunday Express article came out during George VI's reign and the Duke of Windsor refuted it and said that he " was staying abroad against his own wishes."

[Denville]

Yes I think that it is obvious that David did not really foresee that his abdication meant that he was out of things.. that he was not likely to be welcome in England for some time at least, and that he had not just junked the boring parts of the Job of King.. he ad burned his bridges and was now persona non grata. I think he had believed that in a short while he'd be abel to live in England, do the odd bit of work and still be admired and treated as Royal.. but he didn't realise that tehre could only be one King, and that once he'd given up that postion, the rest of the RF were not going to be too happy with him, and the public woud soon forget him.....

[Osipi]

I'm going to speak totally off the wall and state that, from what I know of David from books and discussions, I really don't think he put any kind of thought whatsoever of what the reactions would be to his abdication. He was, first and foremost, concerned with what he wanted (Wallis) and how he was going to go about getting that. He may have had regrets later on when the repercussions from the abdication weren't to his liking though.

David (King Edward VIII) was not one overly known for looking and planning ahead on things.

[Denville]

I think insofar as he thought of the Abdication, he just stumbled into it. He half wanted toget out of being king.. but mostly he just wanted Wallis, wanted to marry her and he was prepared to do whatever it took to do that. It didn't really bother him how oehter people regarded his behaviour or how they felt or if it was a lot of stress for his family and particular his brother...

[CyrilVladisla]

The Duke of Windsor attended the Queen Mary Memorial unveiling in 1967.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e_Jpx1oWqU

[CyrilVladisla]

The Duke of Windsor was interviewed about Winston Churchill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHwKZzNHFwE

[sndral]

Interesting excerpts from the soon to be published private journals of a columnist. In the article are his descriptions of a couple of meetings with the Duke and Duchess as well as several other people.
Https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ought-war.html

[Curryong]

Nothing we haven't heard before from the Duke, but it is still quite sad and disgusting that, decades after the Second World War, he persisted in these opinions and in expressing them in anti-Semitic language. His friendship with Oswald Mosley and his wife Diana isn't unexpected under the circumstances. 'Birds of a feather...' and all that.

[Denville]

Its hardly news is it? But it shows how stupid Edward was. Many people probably still had a prejudice against Jews even after the horror of the HOlocaust, but they kept their views to themselves...

[Furienna]

But if he was stupid, that only makes me feel more sorry for the man, even though I don't agree with what he said about Jews, of course. But like you said, it is very likely that many people in his generation had the exact same opinions. Except for that they were smart enough to know when to stop expressing them in public.

[Denville]

There's stupid and very stupid. Many people's views did not change, even after the Holocaust but they tended if public figures like the Windsors to hide their views.

[MARG]

When he was young he was much loved but arrogant rather than stupid. I think that he believed he could do no wrong (divine right?). Even after he was forced to abdicate he never understood his own family's reaction to his situation let alone his own country's reasoning.

[Denville]

I don't think he was very intelligent, but Its true that he didn't seem to ever learn by mistakes. He never understood why the RF got angry with him, or why the British public soon lost interest in him.. because of his marriage. he "had to have Wallis" and he thought that that was the beginning and end of it...

[CyrilVladisla]

Edward VIII discussed first meeting Wallis Simpson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0JW2FBdaUM