Royal Courtiers, Ladies in Waiting, Staff, etc

[Honeybees]

The photographs of The Duchess of Wessex shouting at an RPO in the street will never be forgotten, in my humble opinion.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Dames and Ladies of Empress Elisabeth of Austria
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTvwfsUuECg

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Maria Semenovna Choglokova was appointed senior governess to Grand Duchess Catherine (Empress Catherine II). Maria was to act as the constant companion and chaperone. Maria was Empress Elizabeth's first cousin on her mother's side.

 

[Countessmeout]

Yes, a cousin of Anna (Catherine's mother in law) and the empress (Anna long dead). Maria's husband was a chamberlain. Maria's devotion and duty as a wife, and fertility (pregnant annually) were meant to inspire Catherine. Catherine hated the woman. In her biography she called her malicious, cruel, un-educated, simple-minded and self-righteous. Maria wasn't popular, considered ruthlessly ambitious. She and her husband were more jailors to the couple than anything. Went on for 7 years.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

At the start of Catherine of Aragon's position as Queen Consort of Henry VIII, her ladies-in-waiting included:
Elizabeth Stafford, sister of the Duke of Buckingham
Anne Stafford, sister of the Duke of Buckingham
Margaret Scrope, wife of Edmund de la Pole
Elizabeth Scrope, wife of John de Vere, Earl of Oxford
Agnes Tilney, Countess of Surrey
Anne Hastings, daughter of Sir William Hastings
Mary Say, Lady Essex

 

[Countessmeout]

It was considered an extreme honor to be lady in waiting to the queen. For unmarried women, it often was a way for their families to find them perspective husbands. Unfortunately also was a common source if mistresses for the king. Elizabeth Stanford married Anne Boleyn uncle Thomas Howard and was a staunch supporter of Catherine.

Mary scrope, the sister of the two above, was at court for three queens. She was part of Catherine's coronation, and a companion to Anne in the tower. Was also at court for jane.

 

[Curryong]

When Alexandra, the last Tsarina of Russia, wanted to go out on a carriage ride, a footman would inform one of the more than 250 police security agents employed by the Imperial Household.

He would phone the Palace Commandant who would ring the Imperial Stables and the office of the Military Secretariat to organise security. Once Alexandra was in her carriage her chief Cossack in uniform would stand at the back and they would set off on a pre-arranged route lined with police agents.

They would carry notebooks so that any and all incidents could be recorded. If the carriage stopped at any time so that Alexandra could speak to a passing acquaintance, that person would be approached afterwards wanting to know the object of the conversation and recording it.

The Romanovs all hated the surveillance they were obliged to live under, and their shadowing police agents whenever they went for a walk in the Palace gardens or Parks. Tsar Nicholas called these men 'nature-lovers' because if they were noticed by any of the Imperial family they would immediately look up to the sky or trees as if interested in the bird life or blossoms. Imagine living such a life!

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Beate Huitfeldt (1554-1626) was principal lady-in-waiting to Queen Anne Catherine of Denmark from 1597 to 1612.

 

[stunking]

Princess Diana's grandmother Lady Femroy was a lady in waiting for the Queen.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Lady Eleanor Monson was a lady in waiting to Marie, Duchess of Edinburgh.
http://www.british-towns.net/englan...s/richmond-upon-thames/album/8284-lady-monson

 

[Denville]

Princess Diana's grandmother Lady Femroy was a lady in waiting for the Queen.

Actually it was the queen mother whom she was LIW to

 

[Blog Real]

Do Queen Sonja and Princess Mette-Marit have ladies-in-waiting?

 

[Blog Real]

In this picture you can see the Swedish Royal Court's dress much better, I believe that the Swedish Royal Court are the only or one of a few courts left to still carry on the tradition of a Court Dress.

The lady in the picture is Elisabeth Palmstierna and she is a Marshall of The Court.

Only Sweden still maintains the tradition of the court dress?

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Diane de Poitiers was a lady in waiting to Queen Catherine de Medici of France.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Diane de Poitiers was a lady in waiting to Queen Catherine de Medici of France.

As a child Diane grew up in the household of Anne de Beaujeu, duchess de Bourbon the sister of Charles VIII & Regent of France.
Later Diane became a lady-in-waiting to Queen Claude of France and following her death she served the kings formidable mother Louise de Savoie and after her death in 1531 she became lady in waiting to Queen Eleanor.

Diane then went onto serve Catherine de Médicis until 1559 when the queen banished her from court.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

What were these Ladies Waiting for?

 

[Blog Real]

What is currently the most traditional court in Europe?

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Josepha Boegart was a lady in waiting to Queen Marie de Medici of France.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Portrait_of_Josepha_Boegart,_by_Frans_Pourbus_the_Younger.jpg

 

[SirGyamfi1]

What is currently the most traditional court in Europe?

I would say the British Royal court because they still retain ladies in waiting and large entourage.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I would say the British Royal court because they still retain ladies in waiting and large entourage.

Beside the UK also Denmark, the Netherlands, Sweden, all have hofdames, dames du palais, chamberlains, foresters, equerries, stewards, treasurers, all have fully functioning royal mews, royal archives, etc.

But in all monarchies we see that the traditional "pool" of aristocracy and patriciate is changed for professional staff and an "inclusive policy" as well.

Less an lesser a baroness this-and-that or a countess so-and-so with sparkling family jewels in the entourage of royal ladies but more and more staff detached from ministerial departments or the armed forces.

That takes away the real "feel" of a royal court. Many Courts more and more look like a ministerial department, with a career carrousel and less an lesser as "a family business" where courtiers stay for a lifetime.

Sometimes this is enforced by the Government by the way. A recent example in Luxembourg where the whole Court organization was practically taken away from the Grand-Duke and is now under supervision of a manager, directly ressorting under the Premier Minister.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Beside the UK also Denmark, the Netherlands, Sweden, all have hofdames, dames du palais, chamberlains, foresters, equerries, stewards, treasurers, all have fully functioning royal mews, royal archives, etc.

But in all monarchies we see that the traditional "pool" of aristocracy and patriciate is changed for professional staff and an "inclusive policy" as well.

Less an lesser a baroness this-and-that or a countess so-and-so with sparkling family jewels in the entourage of royal ladies but more and more staff detached from ministerial departments or the armed forces.

That takes away the real "feel" of a royal court. Many Courts more and more look like a ministerial department, with a career carrousel and less an lesser as "a family business" where courtiers stay for a lifetime.

Sometimes this is enforced by the Government by the way. A recent example in Luxembourg where the whole Court organization was practically taken away from the Grand-Duke and is now under supervision of a manager, directly ressorting under the Premier Minister.

I understand that most European monarchies bar Spain retain ladies in waiting and all necessary staff for court. But I understand what you’re saying. The example of Luxembourg is an unusual one because they don’t have much of an aristocracy like the other monarchies. Those changes seem clinical and like a compartmentalized government institution and see Spain too, since Juan Carlos and Sofia came to power, aristocratic court positions have been swept aside and there are no ladies in waiting.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Josepha Boegart was a lady in waiting to Queen Marie de Medici of France.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Portrait_of_Josepha_Boegart,_by_Frans_Pourbus_the_Younger.jpg

There were 2 types of French Ladies in waiting/Dames d'honneur.

Femmes Mariées (married ladies-in-waiting)
Filles d'honneur (Maids of Honour)

It was Jeanne I de Navarre who first established a separate Household for the Queen of France as Jeanne was a monarch in her own rite (queen of Navarre) and queen consort of France.

King François Ier once said "a court without ladies is a court without a court"

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

In Belgium there are no ladies-in-waiting either. For official functions the Queen requests a lady to function as Eredame / Dame d'honneur for the event only. There is a pool of five: Clotilde Boël born De Peñaranda (yes, married into Delphine's step-family), Laurence Van de Werve van de Schilde born De Ghellinck d’Elseghem Vaernewijck (nobility), Lindsay Edwards (owns a translators' office in Brussels), Melissa Maas born Van Waeyenberge (a pharmacist in Brussels) and Patricia Vlerick born Bouckaert (from an industrial family).


The difference is that in Mathilde's system the lady is only for public engagements, as a company, while a classic Hofdame (lady-in-waiting) or a Dame du Palais (the name already says it) has an office and a salon inside the palace, belongs to the highest echelons of the Household and also does representation on behalf of the royal lady they are in service to.

 

[JR76]

What is currently the most traditional court in Europe?

Queen Margrethe, who's no stranger to pomp herself, famously said a few years that the most formal court in Europe was the Swedish one. Even though much of the old ceremonial court went out the door during the reforms instigated by Queen Louise after 1950 they still retain many uniforms, court positions that are staffed when needed and ceremonies (the reception of new ambassadors for example is done to a centuries old ceremonial).

I would say the British Royal court because they still retain ladies in waiting and large entourage.

Beside the UK also Denmark, the Netherlands, Sweden, all have hofdames, dames du palais, chamberlains, foresters, equerries, stewards, treasurers, all have fully functioning royal mews, royal archives, etc.

But in all monarchies we see that the traditional "pool" of aristocracy and patriciate is changed for professional staff and an "inclusive policy" as well.

Less an lesser a baroness this-and-that or a countess so-and-so with sparkling family jewels in the entourage of royal ladies but more and more staff detached from ministerial departments or the armed forces.

That takes away the real "feel" of a royal court. Many Courts more and more look like a ministerial department, with a career carrousel and less an lesser as "a family business" where courtiers stay for a lifetime.

The court in famously egalitarian (well... that's for another discussion) Sweden has a surprising amount of noble women. The Queen's ladies-in-waiting include a Baroness von Schwerin and the Head of the Queen's Household is a Countess Hamilton who's the granddaughter of a court chamberlain and the great-granddaughter of a marshal of the court. Another courtier who so to say has the job in her blood is the current Mistress of the Robes, Baroness von Blixen-Finecke, who is the niece-in-law of the former mistress, Countess Trolle-Wachtmeister. Funnily enough it seems that the ladies comes from a more traditional background than the men. That, I'm sure, will change after Crown Princess Victoria ascends the throne. She has military aide-de-camps instead of ladies-in-waiting and the traditional organisation of the court into a "male" household for the king and a "female" household for the queen will not hold up for a queen and a prince.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The court in famously egalitarian (well... that's for another discussion) Sweden has a surprising amount of noble women. The Queen's ladies-in-waiting include a Baroness von Schwerin and the Head of the Queen's Household is a Countess Hamilton who's the granddaughter of a court chamberlain and the great-granddaughter of a marshal of the court. Another courtier who so to say has the job in her blood is the current Mistress of the Robes, Baroness von Blixen-Finecke, who is the niece-in-law of the former mistress, Countess Trolle-Wachtmeister. Funnily enough it seems that the ladies comes from a more traditional background than the men.

It seems especially odd given that the Queen herself was a trailblazer in being the first commoner-born (Swedish) queen since the Middle Ages.

That, I'm sure, will change after Crown Princess Victoria ascends the throne. She has military aide-de-camps instead of ladies-in-waiting and the traditional organisation of the court into a "male" household for the king and a "female" householde for the queen will not hold up for a queen and a prince.

Has Prince Daniel established a household of his own? I don't think I have seen it discussed on the official website.

 

[An Ard Ri]

One of the most famous of Catherine de Médicis ladies was Charlotte de Beaune Semblançay, Viscountess of Tours, Baroness de Sauve, Marquise de Noirmoutier who was a member of Catherine's infamous "Flying Squadron" (L'escadron volant).
These beautiful ladies were used to seduce noble men in exchange for pillow talk or information which which was then passed onto the queen.

Charlotte de Sauve

 

[JR76]

It seems especially odd given that the Queen herself was a trailblazer in being the first commoner-born (Swedish) queen since the Middle Ages.

Silvia Sommerlath might have been born a commoner, but she was born into the German upper-middle class and partly grew up among the Brazilian gentry. The lifestyle of the social circle she became part of in Sweden might have been grander than she was accustomed to, but she was no stranger to it. Since her ladies-in-waiting are recruited through her and her courtiers's social network it's no wonder that they have an upper-class background. In the beginning many of them were nurses since the Queen felt that their training and people skills would be useful for a lady-in-waiting.

Has Prince Daniel established a household of his own? I don't think I have seen it discussed on the official website.

No, Daniel is part of the Crown Princess Household.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Silvia Sommerlath might have been born a commoner, but she was born into the German upper-middle class and partly grew up among the Brazilian gentry. The lifestyle of the social circle she became part of in Sweden might have been grander than she was accustomed to, but she was no stranger to it. Since her ladies-in-waiting are recruited through her and her courtiers's social network it's no wonder that they have an upper-class background. In the beginning many of them were nurses since the Queen felt that their training and people skills would be useful for a lady-in-waiting.

Interesting, so a large proportion of the Swedish upper class consists of nobility? Hiring ladies-in-waiting with nursing backgrounds seems like it would also serve the Queen's later dementia care work well.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

When Queen Beatrix abdicated, all courtiers offered their position into His new Majesty'a gracious consideration, as the Constitution says "The King shall organize his own House".

Queen Máxima has lesser hofdames than Queen Beatrix, from 9 back to 5, which was explained as: the new Queen is a Consort. That means no investitures of new ministers, no credentials of new ambassadors, no audiences to dignitaries. There simply are fewer Hofdames needed. Undoubtedly the number will double again under Queen Catharina-Amalia, as she will have the position and the agenda of a head-of-state indeed.

Her dames are all from nobility or patriciate: Marie-Louise Alexandra ("Bibi") gravin Van Zuylen van Nijevelt - jonkvrouw Den Beer Poortugael, Ottoline Antoinette ("Lieke") Gaarlandt - Van Voorst van Beesd, Anna Magdalena ("Annemijn") Crince le Roy - Van Munster van Heuven, Joséphine Maria ("Pien") van Karnebeek - Thijssen

 

[tommy100]

On ladies in waiting / hofdames conversation. It is interesting to note that neither The Duchess of Cornwall or the Duchess of Cambridge currently have any ladies in waiting of their own even though the former Princess of Wales did, as so the Princess Royal and Princess Alexandra. I wonder what this means for the future of the lady in waiting role.