Bowing and Curtseying


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:previous: So by this it appears the Sussexes and Cambridges are neither at Sandringham, is that right?
 
I honestly believe that would be reading too much into it - last year they curtsied and this year they did the same. I doubt they wouldn't have gone back for lunch at Sandringham anyway?
 
tommy100 said:
I honestly believe that would be reading too much into it - last year they curtsied and this year they did the same. I doubt they wouldn't have gone back for lunch at Sandringham anyway?
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So that other explanation is that they are doing it just for the cameras? Because no one (excepting Jack and Tim) behind them bows?
 
Not everyone curtesy's or bows the head...because they have already seen The Queen earlier today.


LaRae
 
But they just saw the Queen in church, so I’m confused about this idea that they’re bowling/curtesying because they’ve just seen her. Wouldn’t they do it when she entered, or left the church?
 
They don't curtesy at the services...they are all in the Church usually well before the Queen arrives...IIRC no one is supposed to arrive after the Queen.

Every year they line up outside (whoever hasn't seen her) and as she leaves curtesy/bow.

LaRae
 
Yeah, I know that no one arrives after the Queen. I was wondering if they would curtsey to her inside the church.

In any event, seeing as Tim and Jack bowed as she left, I’m not convinced it tells us who has, or hasn’t seen her.
 
Enough with all the criticism of who bows, how and when. I just noticed that Jack Brooksbank — a first timer at Sandrjnghan Christmas— also bowed. Eugenie didn’t.

I’m going to assume it’s over compensation and leave it at that.

Meghan and Jack aren’t idiots —- just new to everything and not wanting to put a wrong foot forward.

Goos for them!
 
I don’t see anyone criticizing the new royals for how, or when they bow/curtsey. This discussion was about whether the Cambridges and the Sussexes bowed because they hadn’t seen the Queen this morning.
 
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AdmirerUS said:
So that other explanation is that they are doing it just for the cameras? Because no one (excepting Jack and Tim) behind them bows?
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I don't believe W&K and M&H (if they are staying at Anmer) arrive straight at church then leave straight from there for Anmer. They can't arrive on foot as Anmer is 3 miles away and they are in posh clothes so they must arrive by car to the main house then walk with the rest of the family. I doubt they arrive and don't see the Queen and I doubt they go straight from church to home without calling in at the Main House to see the Queen and probably stay for Christmas dinner. So the church is simply a middle part of their day with the Queen.

I'm not pretending to know all at all but I just don't see how it indicates who is staying where. Tim and Jack bowed and they are almost certainly staying at Sandringham. A curtsey takes quite a bit of room to bob down as your knees goes back a little and on a step with others in front and behind that is hard.

I didn't say they were doing it for the cameras, I said it is clear to me from observing them that some thought goes into this as Anne stepped aside to let W&K go ahead of her. The fact that the media made a fuss about the curtseys last year makes it more likely (not the only reason) IMO that they would repeat it this year lest the media make a fuss about them not doing so.
 
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I am not 100% sure what the exact protocol is but, if you watch any church service that the Queen attends, members of the BRF (and others) acknowledge her presence with a bow or curtsy when HM reaches her pew... and also when she leaves it. I would assume that the same happens here.

They also tend to acknowledge HM's arriving and departing a venue. Watch, for example, the Garter Service. When the Queen's carriage leaves at the end of the service, members of the BRF bow/curtsy as the Queen leaves. It is sort of like saying hello and goodbye.

While many posters have picked-up on the point that, once you have bowed/curtsied you do not have to do it again, I think that is the case during the same event or for a prolonged 'visit' where they may encounter HM on numerous occasions - they do not have to bow each time they catch her eye or speak with her again. I do however think that the BRF will usually bow/curtsy when HM arrives and leaves - again , like saying hello and goodbye. Think of it like shaking hands.

For those who did not bow as the car departed, I think it is more the case that they were not paying attention (perhaps in conversation with someone etc) or still to far away (still up the stairs, behind the bushes) that they could not see HM leave....too far away to "shake hands".
 
soapstar said:
Yeah, I know that no one arrives after the Queen. I was wondering if they would curtsey to her inside the church.

In any event, seeing as Tim and Jack bowed as she left, I’m not convinced it tells us who has, or hasn’t seen her.
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It would actually be quite easy not to see the Queen before she arrives at Church. The "former" Butler's and footmen and even chefs have been expounding at length the way Christmas Day is scheduled. Married ladies have tea and toast in their rooms, single ladies and gentlemen have breakfast downstairs together.

Since HM leaves the house last as she travels by car and all the rest have set out earlier in a well-timed stroll to church, not seeing her before Church is more than possible. The Cambridge's would arrive, settle the Nanny and kids and join the walk. If they had guests I'm guessing they'd just follow along and stop and chat with the assembling walkers until they set out.
 
tommy100 said:
I don't believe W&K and M&H (if they are staying at Anmer) arrive straight at church then leave straight from there for Anmer. They can't arrive on foot as Anmer is 3 miles away and they are in posh clothes so they must arrive by car to the main house then walk with the rest of the family. I doubt they arrive and don't see the Queen and I doubt they go straight from church to home without calling in at the Main House to see the Queen and probably stay for Christmas dinner. So the church is simply a middle part of their day with the Queen.

I'm not pretending to know all at all but I just don't see how it indicates who is staying where. Tim and Jack bowed and they are almost certainly staying at Sandringham. A curtsey takes quite a bit of room to bob down as your knees goes back a little and on a step with others in front and behind that is hard.

I didn't say they were doing it for the cameras, I said it is clear to me from observing them that some thought goes into this as Anne stepped aside to let W&K go ahead of her. The fact that the media made a fuss about the curtseys last year makes it more likely (not the only reason) IMO that they would repeat it this year lest the media make a fuss about them not doing so.
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No one is saying they walked front Anmer or going to Anmer from church. They likely drove up to Sandringham and walked over with the rest of the family. And HM isn’t out yet. The rest would’ve seen her inside earlier as they are staying there. Same thing happened at Easter. Some members of the family do not curtsy while others did when HMQ arrived. Usually that means those that curtsied there didn’t see her earlier in the day whereas others did and it’s not necessary for them to curtsy again.
 
I just noticed that Catherine curtsied moving her left leg behind the right. Meghan curtsied moving her right leg behind the left. So I take it there is no protocol on which leg you keep forward? I always thought you did it the way Catherine did.
 
jacqui24 said:
No one is saying they walked front Anmer or going to Anmer from church. They likely drove up to Sandringham and walked over with the rest of the family. And HM isn’t out yet. The rest would’ve seen her inside earlier as they are staying there. Same thing happened at Easter. Some members of the family do not curtsy while others did when HMQ arrived. Usually that means those that curtsied there didn’t see her earlier in the day whereas others did and it’s not necessary for them to curtsy again.
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The reality is no one knows and my comment was meant to show we can't take the fact they curtsey or bow as a sure sign they aren't staying at Sandringham and I still believe that.
 
tommy100 said:
The reality is no one knows and my comment was meant to show we can't take the fact they curtsey or bow as a sure sign they aren't staying at Sandringham and I still believe that.
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I still don’t know who came up with the concept of a bow and curtsey indicating who is staying with The Queen. It’s just a sign of respect for the Monarch. Not all members of the family do it in unison all the time.
 
contessa said:
I just noticed that Catherine curtsied moving her left leg behind the right. Meghan curtsied moving her right leg behind the left. So I take it there is no protocol on which leg you keep forward? I always thought you did it the way Catherine did.
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I'd do it with the right foot back. No idea, if there is a reaaon behind it or if you just do what feels more natural (and balancing) to you.
 
SLV said:
I'd do it with the right foot back. No idea, if there is a reaaon behind it or if you just do what feels more natural (and balancing) to you.
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I wonder if it's a right handed/left handed thing? I learned to curtsey with the right leg back, and that's how I usually see it.
 
Dman said:
I still don’t know who came up with the concept of a bow and curtsey indicating who is staying with The Queen. It’s just a sign of respect for the Monarch. Not all members of the family do it in unison all the time.
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It's been said here for years that on these gathered occasions, you curtsey to the Queen the first time you see her for that event. So, if you are staying with her at Sandringham, you have already bowed to her that day and need not bow at the church. But if you are staying at Anmer, you bow when she arrives at church (or the wedding or whatever other gathered event when you have not run into her at home).

So some here took that to mean the departure bow/curtsey as well.

This departure bow/curtsey is different from that. It appears to be something the front row does out of courtesy. Though, recalling other events this departure honor seems less uniform in application. Lately, I think it seems more obvious. Maybe they are just back in practice what with all the weddings. Maybe as HM ages people think they want to obviously honor her more often and more formally.

I personally think it looks silly when the front row curtseys and the people behind are chatting away. Either pay attention to her coming and going or don't. JMO.
 
I agree that this is something that has just evolved over time and is, it seems, becoming the norm for this Christmas day service.
 
So why didn't Kate and William curtsey/bow before when they were the only ones who stayed at Anmer and Harry stayed at Sandringham?
 
They have...if you go back and look at past Christmases you can see Kate/William performing bow/curtesy.


LaRae
 
The "which leg goes back in a curtsey" conversation makes me want to find all the pictures of ladies curtseying and seeing which leg is dominant, and seeing if, as Ista suggested, it's correlated with the preferred writing hand.

(I prefer to move my right leg back, as I feel sturdier on my left. And I'm right handed.)
 
I know in highland dancing (totally unrelated) there's a step to the right with the left leg behind and to a judge/adjudicator for an award no step. Not sure about ballet. I'm sure I read somewhere that bowing for royalty was the opposite but I naturally do the hd one.
 
A rare sight on the Nobel ceremony nowadays: Lady Churchill accepts the Nobel Prize for literature on behalf of her husband (Sir Winston Churchill) and curtsies to King Gustav VI Adolf of Sweden.


 
Princess Ingeborg pointed how the the Photograph took his picture without disturbing , funny.
 
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