King/Grand Duke Willem III (1817-1890) Queen Sophie (1818-1877) and sons - Page 2

**Marengo** · #21 05-10-2007, 07:34 AM

Queen Sophie was a very intellectual woman who felt lost in The Hague (everything happens here 50 years later). She used to correspond with politicians from all over Europe and with many authors, artists etc. too. Perhaps the only thing she and her husband had in common is that they both were anti-Prussian and in favour of Napoleon III. With Sophie her teenage crush on the King of Rome (son of Napoleon I) might be one of the reasons of her pro-Bonaparte stand, as might be the marriage of her aunt Catherine to Jerome, King of Westphalia (youngest brother of Napoleon I).

Sophie wrote various (anonimous) articles for mainly French newspapers and during her life she alse published her memoires, which aren't to positive about her husband and her mother-in-law. In the 80-ties J.W. Jackman and Hella Haasse composed a book out of the correspondence between Queen Sophie and Lady Malet, which is called 'A Stranger in The Hague' and is also available in english.

**Marengo** · #22 06-01-2007, 10:56 AM

In the late 90-ties the public channel KRO aired a television series called 'Wij Alexander' which was about the strange youngest son of King Willem III and Queen Sophie, Prince Alexander.
More information in Dutch can be found here or here.

Martha · #23 06-01-2007, 12:06 PM

Does Everybody Know what happen with Queen Sophie´ Sons?, because She was the first wife.

**Marengo** · #24 06-01-2007, 02:47 PM

Well, all sons died without issue. The middle son, Maurice, died when he was around 10 years old. the others were adults when they died and the court tried to get them to marry a foreign princess several times, but both weren' t to willing. Because of this the old King had to remarry, as did his brother Prince Hendrik. Both married women who could have been their granddaughters (Emma of Waldeck-Pyrmont and Marie of Prussia respectively). Perhaps somebody else can inform us of what illnesses the 3 princes died?

lucien · #25 06-01-2007, 06:42 PM

It's still not quite sure as of what cause Wiwill died,but it is presumed that his lifestyle wasn't that healthy,drinking heavily was one,contracting syphilus didn't help either.He wished to marry Mathilde van Limburg Stirum,and just and only her.His father was very much against this,moreover,it was rumoured that chèr Mathilde was Willem III daughter,from one of his extra marital affairs.So that was out of the question.

Wiwill and his father clashed on nearly everything,especially on their respective views on politics,and last but certainly not least,the marital disaster of the King and Queen.Wiwill took his mothers side,something the King didn't take lightly.These clashes let to Wiwill's departure to Paris,and he refushed to return,frustrated,disilusioned and indulging in all Paris had to offer.....There's also the story he died from the injury after a duel,but that has never been confirmed.A once promising but sad figure in the end.The King had really to be talked over to even attend his funeral,which he did,but got out of the church as quick as he could.Alexander couldn't stop crying.

Brother Alexander had always been of a delicate health,a bit of a hunchback,suffering from astma,and spoiled by his mother,he was the apple of her eye,all in all reason enough for the King to detest him.Really detest him,and the feeling was mutual.No one and nothing could comfort him as Queen Sofie died,followed by his brother Willem two years later.He lived a very secluded life,almost drenched in melancholy/mourning,seeing hardly anyone,and time and time again he was in the crypt in Delft weeping over his mothers and brother's coffins.The combination of intens sorrow of which he couldn't let go and his deteriorating health due to astma/bronchitis and probably diabetes,ultimately let to his lonely early death.The story of both men is too sad for words really.

Both never met Emma,the first died to soon,the other refused to see her,and on the day of the wedding of the King and Queen Emma,had his windows blinded,as a sign of mourning.Nonetheless it was Queen Emma who tryed to reconcile father and son,to no avail.Even when his sister Wilhelmina was born,he refused any contact.On Alexander's funeral there was a wreath from Emma.

Later,Queen Wilhelmina often referred to the "three of us" meaning Wiwill,Alexander and herself,but none had ever met,she must have missed siblings,very much so,as her autobiography reveals,for a number of reasons,by the title alone.

**Marengo** · #26 06-04-2007, 06:43 AM

Was she referring to the three or to the four of us, as Prince Maurits was there too. Where did he die from? I know he died when Princess Louise was about to marry the Swedish crownprince.

After Alexander died the court tried to prevent any sign of 'intelectualness' with Wilhelmina, which might be one of the reasons why she received an almost inhumane upbringing.

lucien · #27 06-04-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo

Was she referring to the three or to the four of us, as Prince Maurits was there too. Where did he die from? I know he died when Princess Louise was aboutt to marry the Swedish crownprince.

After Alexander died the court tried to prevent any sign of 'intelectualness' with Wilhelmina, which might be one of the reasons why she received an almost inhumane upbringing.

Oddly enough she referred to the three of us,probably since poor Maurits died decades before,and thus referred only to the two of her,or almost,times.

Maurits probably died of meningitis,as he had gradually increasing symptoms towards that direction.He suddenly developed fever in early may 1850,but doctors couldn't agree on the cause at first.Later Queen Sophie wished her choice of doctors at the boy's bedside,but the King insisted on having his,doctor Vinkhuyzen and Count van Bylandt.

Their miserable marriage went as far as creating havoc on who was in charge of the boy's health,but when he died on june 4th 1850,157 years ago,both parents were overcome with grief,and Queen Sophie blamed the King for not having her,far superiour,doctors at Maurits bedside,she blamed him for Maurits death.His funeral in Delft was on june 10th,according to the tradition of that time,without the parents.Dignitaries if the Court replaced them.

Louise became engaged on may 22nd,lots of festivities,as her parents Prince Frederik and Princess Louise celebrated their Silver Wedding anniversary at the same time.But all the partying came to an abrupt end with Maurits death.

By that time the Crown Prince of Sweden was already on his way back to Stockholm,ahead of his bride to be.

In august 1851 Alexander was born,the baby that replaced Maurits,if that's possible.The birth was to prove to the Nation that there were no difficulties between TM.They (unofficially,aka,scheiding van tafel en bed)seperated in 1855.A divorce was out of the question.

Martha · #28 06-04-2007, 02:17 PM

Thanks for the information. I think is very interesting. I had read that Queen was younger than King William. They had one daughter (Queen Willermina).

**Marengo** · #29 06-05-2007, 06:35 AM

King Willem III remarried after his wife Sophie died. He married Princess Emma of Waldeck-Pyrmont, who was about 40 years younger then him. The couple indeed got one daughter, Wilhelmina.

**Marengo** · #30 06-05-2007, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucien

Their miserable marriage went as far as creating havoc on who was in charge of the boy's health,but when he died on june 4th 1850,157 years ago,both parents were overcome with grief,and Queen Sophie blamed the King for not having her,far superiour,doctors at Maurits bedside,she blamed him for Maurits death.His funeral in Delft was on june 10th,according to the tradition of that time,without the parents.Dignitaries if the Court replaced them.
.

Were Sophie's doctors really superior or was it her usual snobbery towards the Dutch (combined with immense grief of course)?

Was it traditional for parents not to attend their own childs funeral? Or just for royal parents? I never heard of that before.
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Thanks for the most informative reply btw.

lucien · #31 06-05-2007, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo

Were Sophie's doctors really superior or was it her usual snobbery towards the Dutch (combined with immense grief of course)?

Was it traditional for parents not to attend their own childs funeral? Or just for royal parents? I never heard of that before.
-
Thanks for the most informative reply btw.

Queen Sophie never failed in the snobbery department,nor in melo-drama either,Willem III couldn't do any good in her eyes even if he tryed,which he did at times.Hard to say now if her doctors were all that superior really.As there was no cure,at that time,for meningitis the boy would have died still I'm afraid.

No it wasn't a tradition for the parents not to attend their own child's funeral in general,but at the Court of that time it apparently was,
in poor Maurits case anyway.Awfull & unthinkeble now.

Allthough,two decades later,on may 17th 1872,she didn't attend the funeral of her sister-in-law Princess Amalia (42),wife of Hendrik,either,even tho she was very fond of her.

**Marengo** · #32 06-05-2007, 07:53 AM

I never knew she was fond of Amalia. She had little love for Amalia's husband Hendrik (or any of her in-laws). But didn't Hendrik and Amalia spend most of their time in luxembourg where he acted as a sort of viceroy?

lucien · #33 06-05-2007, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo

I never knew she was fond of Amalia. She had little love for Amalia's husband Hendrik (or any of her in-laws). But didn't Hendrik and Amalia spend most of their time in luxembourg where he acted as a sort of viceroy?

Little love indeed.She detested Hendrik as much as she did his mother,lewd,scheming and the epithome of "evil" in her eyes.But she might have feld sympathy towards Amalia as she mentions her,not unfavorably,several times,but maybe just out of pitty.

Yes,they were in Luxembourg most of the time,Hendrik ruled it on behalve of his brother the King,the Grand Duke,as you know,and apparently did a good job at that.

Oh and she really couldn't stand Sophie Grand Duchess of Sachsen Weimar,her-sister-in-law,"a little fat propje trying to imitate her mothers manners in a most rediculous way,and the stench from her mouth was impossible,one couldn't stand to be near to her".....Nah,no love lost there either..

**Marengo** · #34 06-05-2007, 10:54 AM

I believe the only one she liked at times was Prince Frederik, and even about him she wrote some unpleasant comments.

Funny enough she also dispised her husbands aunt Marianne, while one would expect some symapthy from Sophie's part for a woman who had the courage to leave her husband.

lucien · #35 06-06-2007, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo

I believe the only one she liked at times was Prince Frederik, and even about him she wrote some unpleasant comments.

Funny enough she also dispised her husbands aunt Marianne, while one would expect some symapthy from Sophie's part for a woman who had the courage to leave her husband.

There's more on that,as you might know....

on the Alexander Palace Forum,Benelux Royals thread,page 3.Feel free to use,Thijs wouldn't mind,now would he?

**Marengo** · #36 06-06-2007, 01:41 PM

More about what? The relationship between Queen Sophie and Prince Frederik? I could not find any information about it in the thread about Queen Sophie at Alexanderpalace.
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I actually don't know if he minds, he hasn't complained so far though

lucien · #37 06-06-2007, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo

More about what? The relationship between Queen Sophie and Prince Frederik? I could not find any information about it in the thread about Queen Sophie at Alexanderpalace.
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I actually don't know if he minds, he hasn't complained so far though

Try the tread on Marianne,same page.

From what I gathered from books/documents,especially "Een vreemdeling in Den Haag",her letters to Lady Mallet reveal she admired him and considered him to be her only true friend within the dutch RF.

Marianne,Sophie destested her.Why?Envy perhaps for being so blunt to actually divorce without really giving a hoot what the very conservative,but oh so hypocrite,society of the time thought,while she feld she couldn't.Still,she kept a precious miniature in her possession of a beautifull Marianne,a bit contradictionary maybe,or maybe just a woman thing....

,no pun intended.

Thijs,he's a sweetheart if there ever was one isn't he?Oh well,you know him better then I do,and next time you "hear" him,ask him to participate on the AP again..?!

**Marengo** · #38 06-18-2007, 08:08 AM

Well, we have that one covered here too, Lucien

lucien · #39 06-18-2007, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo

Well, we have that one covered here too, Lucien

boefje,nice link to admirable Marianne,but not what I asked.....

**Marengo** · #40 10-05-2007, 11:33 AM

I was wondering if anything is known about Sophie and her relations to her own family? I don't recall that she was particulary close to her sister Marie of Neipperg or any of her half-sisters and stepmother. She adored her father and AFAIK hated her sister-in-law, Queen Olga Nicolaievna of Russia. Was Olga's only fault her Russian blood (Sophie disliked all her Russian relatives)?