Prince Charles, Count of Flanders (1903-1983)

[Ralf]

Originally Posted by Marengo

But now there was supposed to be a real marriage. Supposed, as no prove was ever given for it. On September 14th 1977 he might have been married a Jacquenline de Peyrebrune in Paris. He met her during the war in the resistance, he was Monsieur Richard, she Madame Schaak. Charles himself never said a word about the marriage, documents that would prove that a marriage had taken place disappeared and the Belgian court doesn´t say a word about this marriage: ´no comment´.

Even though the Belgian court denies this marriage, how likely is it that this was legit, as they only had a religious marriage ceremony in Paris?

Jacqueline Peyrebrune died in 2014. Does anyone perhaps know the exact date of her death?

[maria-olivia]

I read her book , this was not legit and no civil wedding.
He has a daughter who is still living Mme Wibo, very discret old Lady. I don't know her Mother ?

[Ralf]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

I read her book , this was not legit and no civil wedding.
He has a daughter who is still living Mme Wibo, very discret old Lady. I don't know her Mother ?

Does for this wedding of Charles with Jacqueline Peybrune apply the same as for Leopold I with Karoline Bauer, namely that it didn't take place and therefor has to be ignored?

[Tatiana Maria]

The final word seems to be in L'Allemagne Dynastique, vol VII p 385 quoting Mme Schaack nee Peyrebrune herself and the statement issued after the blessing of her and Prince Charles. Here is my translation: "The religious marriage of Prince Charles does not appear in the Paris, Franceh registers of Saint Pierre de Mountrouge. However, Mme Schaack, nee Jacqueline Peyrebrune...has kindly informed us of the strictly private blessing happily given, eight months after the death of M Georges Schaack, on 14.9.1977 by Father Marcelino Carrera who has given the following attestation: The private blessing uniting before God Charles Theodore count of Flanders and Louise Marie Jacqueline Peyrebrune was given at Saint Peter's at the altar of the Sacred Heart on 14 September 1977. The mutual legal consent was received by your humble brother in Christ [Fr Carrera] in the presence of Father Keller and witnesses [comtesse Annie de Bergeret and Mme Marie Jeannette Aurelie Menahes]. The statement is also signed by the participants and witnesses. Similarly, Madame Jacqueline (de) Peyrebrune who published in 1991 through Editions Tarmeye her memoirs with the title Love in Shadow - the secret garden of Prince Charles of Belgium followed in 1993, by the same publisher, by Carnets intimes....It seems from the correspondence we have exchanged that she considers the union as strictly private and celebrated only devant Dieu. Also, it should be noted that a religious marriage cannot legally take place in French law unless it has been preceded by a civil one." There was no religious marriage and no civil one. So, technically, Prince Charles died unmarried. ...

Source: Richard Thornton

I am not sure if this statement indicates a legally invalid religious wedding or a blessing which did not even qualify as a religious wedding (are there other, non-marital forms of union blessed by the Catholic Church?).

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

I read her book , this was not legit and no civil wedding.
He has a daughter who is still living Mme Wibo, very discret old Lady. I don't know her Mother ?

It was said on another forum that the mother was Jacqueline Wehrli, whose husband Arthur Wybo was the official father of Isabelle.

[maria-olivia]

Yes , you are right Tatania and better informed than myself...

[Ralf]

Thank you Tatiana, for shining a light on this matter, since this clearly shows it was a private matter between prince Charles and Jacqueline Peyrebrune.

Since you're so well informed, do you perhaps also know when Jacqueline died exactly? I know she died at Saint-Hilaire-de-la-Noaille in September 2014, but I don't know the exact day.

[Tatiana Maria]

I'm afraid I am not particularly well informed. I have come across the date of September 15, 2014, regarding Mrs. Schaak, but I have no knowledge of what the source might be.

[maria-olivia]

Prince Charles was in love with Jacqueline Wehrli but he could not marry bacause she was a Communor. So as she was pregnant , he asked Mr Wybo to marry her. Isabelle is not Mr Wybo daughter.

Later King Leopolg III married himself a Communor.

[Prinsara]

I know the polite term is eccentric, and yet I struggle to come up with a better term for my understanding of Charles than "weirdo".

I'm sure it must have been very hard not being the favorite and having your brother deny you a marriage, but it really seems as though he spent (the rest of) his life resenting Leopold and acting on that resentment.

(Also if you are a prince in the 1930s and you think you can marry whomever you want, that's your fault. Not your brother's. And if you don't understand that your brother the King paid hell for marrying whom he wanted and get even more resentful... that doesn't seem to be the right lesson. Just very immature.)

Certainly Charles was happy to play the good regent, and not so happy to offer any kind of support to his brother in exile. A proper regent acts on behalf of the monarch, no? It seems that in addition to taking his job, if Charles had been less willing to let Leopold be completely undermined, his brother might not have walked straight back into a riot.

He was with the Resistance when he disappeared during the war.
...but that's everyone's excuse. Where is the proof, and why wasn't he with them sooner?

And then there's that episode where he asked for help so he could pretend to be in England when he wasn't. That's just flat-out psychiatrically questionable.

Weird. Weird guy. He may have been a talented painter and someone who refused his apanage, but I don't get the sense he was very nice, or any sort of an admirable rebel. At least whoever leaves the flowers on his grave disagrees with me, I suppose...

[Marengo]

I think there was a LOT of resentment from his part towards his family, esp. to his brother and parents. Leopold was always treated as the golden boy, while he was in his shadow. His mother clearly & from a young age had Leopold as her favorite.

Leopold III was livid about Charles taking up the regency, considered him an usurper who was giving in to socialists. Leopold's children of course were on his side. Albert II was interviewed a few years ago and finally acknowledged that the regent had actually done a good job and saved the monarchy. He said it as if it was still a controversial opinion, which it is not as historians all agree about Charles' role. AFAIK it was the first time a family member said something positive in public about the role of prince Charles as regent. He was ignored for 6 decades.

A good regent in a constitutional monarchy does whatever the government wants him to do. His role was not to help his brother. Leopold has made grave mistakes and was a disaster as King. He got away with it in the 30-ties but in the 50-ties neither the government not the public would have tolerated his constant interference with government decisions.

I don't think being eccentric is a bad thing perse btw, quite the opposite .

[Prinsara]

"Eccentric" is giving up your apanage to be a painter. (Or in his mother's famous example, playing your violin in a bomb crater for the acoustics.)

"Weirdo" is making a specialty of disappearing and trying to make people believe you are in another country for some unspecified reason.

I'm very sorry for Charles. He must have felt greatly unloved to harbor as much resentment as he did, but many children feel they aren't the preferred one and it doesn't seem to twist them quite as much. (Even Laurent has managed to be part of the family, just.)

It's also perfectly possible to be a model constitutional regent and not let your nearly-starved-and-murdered brother be accused of treason. It's ironic that whatever Charles did for most of the war is somewhat more open to suspicion.

Leopold made mistakes. Charles capitalized on them. That's an opportunist.

In a royal family, you're in or you're out. You can't decide to be royal only when no one else is around. If Charles really cared about his country and wanted people to appreciate him, he could have used his post-regency leverage to assist Baudouin. He ran off, instead. Again.

It's really questionable whether it's Leopold's shadow or his own that he ended up living in.

[Blog Real]

The Prince Charles wears the uniform of a colonel in the Belgian Army, decorated with the Grand Cordon of the Order of Leopold.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...on_Belgien.jpg

[CyrilVladisla]

Prince Charles, Count of Flanders walked through Ypres Square for the great ceremony of remembrance at the Menin Gate.
http://www.gettyimages.com/license/3294937

[Prinsara]

It's a very strange caption. Was the Prince of Wales meant to be in that photo?

[maria-olivia]

Prince Charles Count of Flandres

[maria-olivia]

Prince Charles was Regent from 1945 to 1950!

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

Prince Charles was Regent from 1945 to 1950!

Yes the information all wrong as it was taken in 1928 long before the Count became Regent and the future Duke of Windsor was Prince of Wales!

[maria-olivia]

Prince Charles did not attend his Mother's Funerals
King Leopold III did not attend Prince Charles , his Brother's Funerals.

[Prinsara]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

Prince Charles did not attend his Mother's Funerals
King Leopold III did not attend Prince Charles , his Brother's Funerals.

The first might be responsible for the second.

However, since Leopold only outlived Charles by a few months, isn't it possible he wasn't well enough to go? (Did their sister? Did...anyone?)

Despite being a pair of brothers who make the current William and Harry look like best friends for life, I seem to recall Leopold was sad when he heard Charles was dead. Maybe because they had never been able to work things out.

[Blog Real]

Prince Charles funeral:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bem9lZY17Tc