The Queen and Her Prime Ministers

[Avalon]

It'll be a wonder if they survive at all. Brown is likely to surround himself with fellow republicans. Then again, I give Brown 6 months at the helm at the most. He's not popular at all.

I think it was reported that Brown and Prince Charles are good friends and Brown has always appreciated Prince's opinion, if I'm not mistaken.

While I can definitely see Brown limiting Royal Powers (he's already gone forward with Royal Prerogative), I don't think he will seek to abolish Monarchy at all.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

While I can definitely see Brown limiting Royal Powers (he's already gone forward with Royal Prerogative), I don't think he will seek to abolish Monarchy at all.

He shouldn't try. The truth is he - Brown himself, not his position - is much more likely to be abolished than the monarchy. Before he is not an elected PM (by the public) he has to be careful regarding taking unpopular decisions.

Especially the older generation will not support him in limiting Royal Powers but he might do it through a back door.

 

[BeatrixFan]

It has to be said that Brown can't risk doing too much, especially where the monarchy is concerned because he's very much a caretaker PM, just waiting till the next General Election. In the future however, I think we will see changes proposed and I can see Britain getting a written constitution in which the monarch may be reduced to the Swedish model.

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

I think it was reported that Brown and Prince Charles are good friends and Brown has always appreciated Prince's opinion, if I'm not mistaken.

While I can definitely see Brown limiting Royal Powers (he's already gone forward with Royal Prerogative), I don't think he will seek to abolish Monarchy at all.

That is the impression I had too, Avalon. I also read a few times in a few places that Prince Charles likes Brown a lot, and I was surprised, but then not so surprised, if you know what I mean. I think Prince Charles has long been more liberal than his family tradition. I don't think Brown is Republican either.
I don't think he is anti-monarchy at all. Maybe he and Prince Charles are agreed on wanting to make the monarchy more appropriate for the 21st century, though. Not that it is not appropriate, but I'm sure there are ways to change some things, always room for improvement, right?

 

[BeatrixFan]

Most certainly not. It is not for us to question our betters.

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

My bet is that the next elected PM being invited by the Queen is David Cameron. He stands for a change as Labour was in power for too long, and, as Blair, he can present himself very well. Not as professional yet as Blair of course, but his time will come.

I think Cameron would be a good PM too, and I think the Queen is probably hoping he will be the one, although like Avalon said, it seems like Prince Charles (if the press reports are true) likes Brown. But it has been rare when Monarch and Heir Apparent are agreeing. Look at George V and his Prince of Wales, and Queen Victoria and her Prince of Wales, and of course George III and his Prince of Wales/Regent had issues with each other as well. I think it's the nature of the beast, to always have tension between sovereign and heir, the Old and the New.

 

[Royal Fan]

If they survived Cromwell and the Civil War, there bound to survive this

 

[WindsorIII]

Originally Posted by Avalon

I think it was reported that Brown and Prince Charles are good friends and Brown has always appreciated Prince's opinion, if I'm not mistaken.

Avalon, here is a new story from yesterday's Telegraph which clearly expresses that Prince Charles is not in favor of Brown and says he hasn't even seen him in 8 months and doesn't plan too.

"This unhappy state of affairs is likely to be seen as further - evidence that the heir to the Queen's crown has not forgiven the heir to Tony Blair's for taking it upon himself to end a £40 million subsidy for the Prince's Trust, which continues to be a significant drag on the charity's resources."

Mandrake | Mandrake | Opinion | Telegraph

It further says that Prince Charles has invited David Cameron to Clarence House and that the Prince of Wales is more sympathetic to the younger generation of politicians.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Avalon, here is a new story from yesterday's Telegraph which clearly expresses that Prince Charles is not in favor of Brown and says he hasn't even seen him in 8 months and doesn't plan too.

"This unhappy state of affairs is likely to be seen as further - evidence that the heir to the Queen's crown has not forgiven the heir to Tony Blair's for taking it upon himself to end a £40 million subsidy for the Prince's Trust, which continues to be a significant drag on the charity's resources."

Mandrake | Mandrake | Opinion | Telegraph

It further says that Prince Charles has invited David Cameron to Clarence House and that the Prince of Wales is more sympathetic to the younger generation of politicians.

This was I thought. Makes more sense to me. But of course the monarch has to work with anyone who comes along as PM.

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

It does make more sense Prince Charles would support Cameron. But of course most Telegraph readers probably support him above all nowadays, don't you think? Logic does point to the idea of most members of the family supporting the Conservative Party, *privately* of course.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

It does make more sense Prince Charles would support Cameron. But of course most Telegraph readers probably support him above all nowadays, don't you think? Logic does point to the idea of most members of the family supporting the Conservative Party, *privately* of course.

Yes, the perfect monarch should have an opinion but should be careful how to express it (in most cases not at all) On many occasions the Queen showed that she prefers the gesture to the spoken word, very wise!

On TV it was recently said that the Queen gets so much respect and admiration because we know so little about her. Gives her kind of a mystic aura - times might change but I believe there is still truth in that and IMO Charles gives away too much from himself from time to time, especially on political issues.

 

[Avalon]

Avalon, here is a new story from yesterday's Telegraph which clearly expresses that Prince Charles is not in favor of Brown and says he hasn't even seen him in 8 months and doesn't plan too.

"This unhappy state of affairs is likely to be seen as further - evidence that the heir to the Queen's crown has not forgiven the heir to Tony Blair's for taking it upon himself to end a £40 million subsidy for the Prince's Trust, which continues to be a significant drag on the charity's resources."

It further says that Prince Charles has invited David Cameron to Clarence House and that the Prince of Wales is more sympathetic to the younger generation of politicians.

Thank you for the article WindsorIII.
I remember a while age there was a picture of Prince Charles and David Cameron and they did seem to be quite friendly.
On the other hand, I've seen many pictures of Brown and Prince Charles, also showing friendly interaction. And I definitely remember an article (I think on BBC), where Brown spoke very highly about Prince Charles and his activities.

Things may have changed, of course (or, as often happens, pictures can be misleading).

Yes, the perfect monarch should have an opinion but should be careful how to express it (in most cases not at all) On many occasions the Queen showed that she prefers the gesture to the spoken word, very wise!

On TV it was recently said that the Queen gets so much respect and admiration because we know so little about her. Gives her kind of a mystic aura - times might change but I believe there is still truth in that and IMO Charles gives away too much from himself from time to time, especially on political issues.

I completely agree with you, Duke of Marmalade.
Queen Elizabeth does have that aura of mystery. She's been around for so many years, yet you can never really tell what she thinks or feels.

I don't think Prince Charles gives away too much about his political views though. While he is the Prince of Wales, he uses the chance to speak of what he thinks is important for Britain (like organic farming, preserving British way of life, architecture, religious tolerance and acceptance). Some of his views, once labeled old-fashioned and laughed at by the press and politicians, are now progressive and vital once again. Which shows Prince Charles knows what he is talking about and which makes me interested to hear his opinion.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I completely agree with you, Duke of Marmalade.
Queen Elizabeth does have that aura of mystery. She's been around for so many years, yet you can never really tell what she thinks or feels.

I don't think Prince Charles gives away too much about his political views though. While he is the Prince of Wales, he uses the chance to speak of what he thinks is important for Britain (like organic farming, preserving British way of life, architecture, religious tolerance and acceptance). Some of his views, once labeled old-fashioned and laughed at by the press and politicians, are now progressive and vital once again. Which shows Prince Charles knows what he is talking about and which makes me interested to hear his opinion.

I agree Avalon, I admire the PoW especially for his engagement for the environment, as I have the impression it is not to curry favour with people (as so many politicians do these days) but something that has been very important to him for a very long time. He is much more that just a guy who talks to his plants : - ) What I wanted to say is that IMO the way Charles gives things away can be improved - but to be fair he is not yet the monarch. He seems to be unpatient and offended very easily if people don't share his opinion or critizise him. Often he gives the impression of a misjudged man who was forced by his role to lead a senseless life to a certain degree because he was never allowed to really prove himself (not true though IMO). I don't recall that QE II has ever given an interview (Prince Philip has though) and still not many monarchs do. When Charles takes on this role, he should keep this in mind and watch more carefully what he says and the way he says it and who is the medium / audience he is talking to

 

[Royal Fan]

So with less than a week to Go what does everyone think Blairs Legacy will be in Regards to the Monarchy And what Dicrection do you think The Monarchy will go in when Brown Takes Over (Ive Heard it said that he will abolish the Queens speech *GASP*

 

[BeatrixFan]

He won't abolish the Queen's Speech. Quite simply - he can't. To do that would mean taking away the Queen's right to open parliament and he can't do that without changing our constitution which would mean a referendum and nobody in their right mind would let Gordon Brown of all people replace the Queen.

 

[wbenson]

He could reduce each parliament to one session in each parliament, reduce the actual speech to something like "Hi. Do stuff. Bye", and advise the Queen to come in something less formal, meaning that Parliament only sees the Queen in a hat once every five years, but I sincerely doubt he would.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Isn't that what the Queen does anyway? Turns up, says hello, gives the orders and then leaves? I too very much doubt he'd dare suggest the end to the pomp and pageantry that we all know and love. What we have to remember is that the last ten years have actually been a Blair and Brown Government. Nothing will change, only Brown's spin team will try and put out an image of change to prevent total defeat at the next General Election.

 

[wymanda]

Personally I'm not confident in Cameron & his party either! There have been that many sexual scandals in the Conservative Party in the last couple of years they really have lost credibility. Along with that is the fact that Cameron has instigated some sort of "preferred candidates list" which parachutes people into seats rather than allowing people with an interest in the area to represent the people. At least one of the women on this list has been involved in the breakup of the marriage of a sitting member! (BTW I have personal knowlege that this information is concerned.
Conservative Hi Jinks

 

[BeatrixFan]

Well, as of today, Gordon Brown is leader of the Labour Party with Harriet Harman as his deputy. Does anyone know what Harman's views on the monarchy are?

 

[Skydragon]

There have been that many sexual scandals in the Conservative Party in the last couple of years they really have lost credibility.

That applies to all the parties though. We had the Lib Dems with their rent boys, Labour had among many others, Prescot and his PA, eek.
On your other point, if a marriage is solid, then nobody can break it up, except the two people who are married!

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

That applies to all the parties though. We had the Lib Dems with their rent boys, Labour had among many others, Prescot and his PA, eek.
On your other point, if a marriage is solid, then nobody can break it up, except the two people who are married!

How true. At the end of the day the elected party members represent society and they have more or less the same problems that some of us have to deal with, the only difference is you can read about it in the papers

Brown is a pretty boring guy and we'll probably miss out on a lot of little scandals as he doesn't have a Cherie, who used to upset the party from time to time eg by taking on clients who fought the same law in court that her husband had just legislated

 

[BeatrixFan]

For those who are interested;

Gordon Brown is now Leader of the Labour Party. Tony Blair resigns on Wednesday and goes to see the Queen. Almost on a reviving door, Gordon Brown goes in and the Queen offers him the opportunity to form the next Government. He becomes Prime Minister.

Now, he is apparantly keen for there to be no Deputy Prime Minister but the Lord Chancellor's Office has specified that there has to be one so that if Brown is out of the country, we have some leadership. This means therefore that Harriet Harman will be his Deputy Prime Minister.

The Foreign Secretary is likely to continue being Margaret Beckett. She's been a good Foreign Secretary and he's likely to keep her own, especially as she's seen to be half way through the job.

The Home Secretary will probably not be John Reid who told us he was stepping down. If he does leave the scene in England, he'll go up to Scotland where he apparantly has his eye on First Minister.

The Health Secretary might be Patricia Hewitt again but she's come under a lot of flak recently and he may take this opportunity to change her.

So, where does this stand in relation to the Queen? Well, Margaret Beckett respects the Queen alot and seems to be a monarchist. Gordon Brown seems to have a good relationship with the Prince of Wales but whether he can have that with the Queen remains to be seen. Patricia Hewitt and Harriet Harman apparantly like the Queen and are also monarchists. As for John Reid, he's probably going anyway. The verdict - this Cabinet will pose very little threat to the monarchy. Gordon Brown does however, want a British constitution but as he has no public mandate, he can't just introduce one. It has to be voted upon through a referendum or he'd have to wait till after an election which it's possible he could win.

But the future of the monarchy looks pretty safe.....for now.

 

[Royal Fan]

I Agree I Dont see it going anywhere Personally for 2oo years (of course im being optimistic) I Saw him accept the Partys Election He seems clever enough Im not as Negative about him as I Was.

 

[BeatrixFan]

The Queen today accepted the resignation of Tony Blair. She then asked Gordon Brown to form a government and he accepted. The new Prime Minister is Gordon Brown.

 

[Skydragon]

Brown is as you say now PM, after an amazing 58 minutes with the queen. Although some members of the cabinet have stepped down, unfortunately they are still MP's, at least until the next general election, when HM will have to go through it all again. It must get incredibly boring for her!

 

[BeatrixFan]

Indeed. And sadly Margaret Beckett and Patricia Hewitt have been dropped from Cabinet because they are "too old". I wonder if he thinks the same of the Queen.

 

[Elspeth]

Any men been dropped because they're too old, or is it just women who have that little problem?

Wonder if he thinks Charles is too old.

 

[Skydragon]

Patricia Hewitt, who had been expected to remain in the cabinet, announced she was leaving government "for personal reasons".

Beckett of course was a Blairite and was expected to resign or be sacked, now all we need is for Ruth Kelly to go!

story

 

[BeatrixFan]

I was quite shocked to see Margaret Beckett go though. I wonder if she'll go the Lords now? I really liked her and was very fond of her. I thought she was an excellent Foreign Secretary and besides that; she's a caravanner. How can you not like someone who takes their holidays in Filey? I think Ruth Kelly will stay and I'm shocked that Hewitt has gone and a little dissapointed but I think in reality, she wouldn't want to continue. It does mean that we'll have brand new faces to scrutinise especially in their relation to the monarchy. At least we knew we could trust Margaret and Patricia.

 

[Skydragon]

She should have gone if only for the fact that she has a bl**dy caravan!