The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 2: Sep 2022 -

[Durham]

He is incapable of doing what you suggest I'm afraid.

He certainly seems to come across as arrogant & lacking in critical introspection. So on the face of it yes I agree it does seem unlikely.

 

[sophie25]

why not then? Do you seriously think that Trump or Bill C just had a glass of milk with these girls if they met them through Epstein

Trump doesn't seem to have been too involved in this mess to be fair to him. Yes he knew Epstein( who in high society New York didn't?) but there is no evidence that he gallavanted about with him in the way others did. Bill Clinton especially was on that dreadful island and I think was also in Buckingham Palace the night Andrew gave the tour involving Kevin Spacey and Maxwell where those two sat on the royal thrones and were photographed having a laugh doing so. There was also an extremely young looking girl, practically a child by the looks of it, featured in those photographs which adds to the unease of the occasion. Epstein, Maxwell and Spacey were/are all sex offenders of underage minors and yet there was the Duke of York entertaining them in the main residence of the BRF. Andrew undoubtedly had a penchant for hanging out with perverts so is he surprised that a great many people believe that he is also one of them? If Andrew thinks that his downfall is purely down to Virginia Roberts then he might want to think again.

 

[Lilyflo]

I've read before that Virginia Guiffre had the original photo that 'friends' of Andrew say is a fake and tomorrow's Mail on Sunday has more information about its authenticity.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...idence-image-royal-Virginia-Giuffre-real.html

 

[sophie25]

Could Charles' reign have gotten off to a worse start? The Harry thing is bad enough but now the Andrew drama is taking off again just when we all thought that ship had sailed.

 

[Sionevar]

He certainly seems to come across as arrogant & lacking in critical introspection. So on the face of it yes I agree it does seem unlikely.

He is also not a smart man, if he seriously thinks the thing about the size of the bath is 'proof' of his innocence. I actually laughed when I read it, then checked to make sure it wasn't April 1st.

Does he not have people around him who look at info like this and say 'sorry, that won't work', or do they try to tell him, and he just doesn't listen?

 

[Lilyflo]

Could Charles' reign have gotten off to a worse start? The Harry thing is bad enough but now the Andrew drama is taking off again just when we all thought that ship had sailed.

I think (and hope) that any more 'Andrew drama' will actually increase empathy and support for Charles as long as he doesn't cave in and allow Andrew any official roles, which seems unlikely.

 

[Lilyflo]

He is also not a smart man, if he seriously thinks the thing about the size of the bath is 'proof' of his innocence. I actually laughed when I read it, then checked to make sure it wasn't April 1st.

Does he not have people around him who look at info like this and say 'sorry, that won't work', or do they try to tell him, and he just doesn't listen?

I suspect he avoids having critical people around him and if anyone does try to advise him, he probably wouldn't listen because he has such an inflated opinion of himself and his attributes. He's had far too many years of doing and saying just what he wants, while being held up as a virtual saint by his ex-wife and doted on by his mother.

 

[LauraS3514]

It's always amazed me that the Queen herself seemed to allow this to happen ever since he was a child. No one who experienced this ever said that he was chastised by her when he was growing up which is really appalling. Unfortunately I do believe that she probably did tell him that he could eventually return to public life and her walking in with him at Philip's memorial service was the first attempt at this. I think that rather than telling him to take a long hard look at himself she merely tried to make the consequences of his actions go away.

To be fair, Andrew was the only one of her children or adult grandchildren who did not attend with a spouse. In that sense, he was her logical escort.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Trump doesn't seem to have been too involved in this mess to be fair to him. Yes he knew Epstein( who in high society New York didn't?) but there is no evidence that he gallavanted about with him in the way others did. Bill Clinton especially was on that dreadful island and I think was also in Buckingham Palace the night Andrew gave the tour involving Kevin Spacey and Maxwell where those two sat on the royal thrones and were photographed having a laugh doing so. There was also an extremely young looking girl, practically a child by the looks of it, featured in those photographs which adds to the unease of the occasion. Epstein, Maxwell and Spacey were/are all sex offenders of underage minors and yet there was the Duke of York entertaining them in the main residence of the BRF. Andrew undoubtedly had a penchant for hanging out with perverts so is he surprised that a great many people believe that he is also one of them? If Andrew thinks that his downfall is purely down to Virginia Roberts then he might want to think again.

I wouldn't read the unsealed legal deposition of that 13 year old who accused Trump of brutally violating her in Epstein's NYC home if I were you.

Our dearly missed Osipi emailed it to me and it shocked me to the core that Trump got away with it AND was able to have it suppressed.

Look it up online and read it if you dare.

Bill Clinton is a church deacon in comparison. ETA: There IS video of Trump "gallivanting" and partying with Epstein, and crowing about his pal's penchant for very young girls.

There is nothing of Andrew except the photo with a grinning VG, who certainly appeared young but definitely was no child.

 

[ada]

I agree with Lily Flo [Post 5282], that's a normal size bath

 

[Leopoldine]

why not then? Do you seriously think that Trump or Bill C just had a glass of milk with these girls if they met them through Epstein

Neither man has been publicly accused by a woman who was associated with Epstein, is what I mean. With The Duke of York, you have an accuser who went public, complete with photos charting her association with Epstein, Ghislaine and The Duke himself. Virginia also has a top lawyer in David Boies.

Today there was some kerfuffle in the papers that seems to lend credence to the Andrew/Virginia/Ghislaine photograph.

 

[Granada]

I just don't get Andrew. Can't Charles just say enough ! I am King and you will have zero public role ?

Why does he keep "rattling the cage"? Its not just the photo with Virginia or her allegations. And decades long association with Pedo Epstein and procurer Ghislaine Maxwell. There are pictures of the three of them together from Buckingham Palace to Balmoral. They were CLOSE. He THEN sealed his fate with the train wreck Emily Maitlis Interview, ALL BY HIMSELF.

On top of his known arrogance and treatment of others.

So now we have never-ending Sussex Circus, this debacle fills and fuels the Media. Why the York Girls or Edward and Anne just don't stage an "Intervention" to convince Andrew that his public life is over I don't know. It certainly does The Monarchy no good.

Charles has supposedly let Fergie back in to attend private Family Events like Christmas at Sandringham as a guest. How many olive branches does Charles have ?

Why doesnt Andrew just enjoy his uber lavish lifestyle in retirement ? Travel, play golf and enjoy his grandkids ?

Personally, I'm not very hopeful how Andrew and Harry seem to just be running roughshod over Charles now with their own personal issues and grievances playing out in Public.
BOTH need to be ignored and sidelined.

Andrew you settled. Its over, nothing good can come from opening that Pandora's Box.

 

[sophie25]

I just don't get Andrew. Can't Charles just say enough ! I am King and you will have zero public role ?

Why does he keep "rattling the cage"? Its not just the photo with Virginia or her allegations. And decades long association with Pedo Epstein and procurer Ghislaine Maxwell. There are pictures of the three of them together from Buckingham Palace to Balmoral. They were CLOSE. He THEN sealed his fate with the train wreck Emily Maitlis Interview, ALL BY HIMSELF.

On top of his known arrogance and treatment of others.

So now we have never-ending Sussex Circus, this debacle fills and fuels the Media. Why the York Girls or Edward and Anne just don't stage an "Intervention" to convince Andrew that his public life is over I don't know. It certainly does The Monarchy no good.

Charles has supposedly let Fergie back in to attend private Family Events like Christmas at Sandringham as a guest. How many olive branches does Charles have ?

Why doesnt Andrew just enjoy his uber lavish lifestyle in retirement ? Travel, play golf and enjoy his grandkids ?

Personally, I'm not very hopeful how Andrew and Harry seem to just be running roughshod over Charles now with their own personal issues and grievances playing out in Public.
BOTH need to be ignored and sidelined.

Andrew you settled. Its over, nothing good can come from opening that Pandora's Box.

Great Post, couldn't agree more. The only thing that bothers me is I have read that Charles knows that Andrew is trying to overturn his decision to settle and apparently supports it. That's baffling.

 

[HenRach Dominion]

Maybe the British Royal Family needs more bodies on the ground, and getting HRH The Duke of York publicly exonerated is a step toward restoring him to a royal role?

 

[Leopoldine]

Great Post, couldn't agree more. The only thing that bothers me is I have read that Charles knows that Andrew is trying to overturn his decision to settle and apparently supports it. That's baffling.

The King's support could be about the money. If there is a chance that the settlement decision could be overturned and a few million dollars makes its way back into royal coffers, I think he would approve.

 

[Denville]

Maybe the British Royal Family needs more bodies on the ground, and getting HRH The Duke of York publicly exonerated is a step toward restoring him to a royal role?

He's not going to go back to a royal role

 

[Granada]

Sophie25, Did not know that about Charles. Andrew has been long regarded as a boorish and entitled buffoon. And that was before the Epstein disasters blew up, I believe in 2010.
Andrew's "situation" is doing NOTHING to improve Charles reputation to handle rogue and detrimental family members and The Crown.
It reflects badly on him, and by extension, The Institution.

The Queen *kinda* got a pass as She was his Mother. It has long been assumed that Charles and Andrew were not close anyway, so for Charles not to shut down Andrew allegedly wanting to reopen the lawsuit and settlement is simple bewildering ! To what end ? Andrew wants to rehabilitate his *image* ...... Cant someone tell him that is IMPOSSIBLE .

Doesn't Charles realize the bad press this encourages ? To lump in the with the OTHER never-ending press from another bitter jealous rogue royal across the Seas ?

Oh, and I will add "Soap Opera" like. Just what The Famiily-Firm needs. This potential "reopening" of a sordid, salacious and disgusting chapter in Andrew's foolish and morally challenged life should be over.
Accept some responsibility for palling around with loathsome degenerates and count the many UNEARNED blessings you enjoy in life.

King Charles, I'm expecting more of you to rein in these destabilizing losers in your immediate Family.

 

[sophie25]

Sophie25, Did not know that about Charles. Andrew has been long regarded as a boorish and entitled buffoon. And that was before the Epstein disasters blew up, I believe in 2010.
Andrew's "situation" is doing NOTHING to improve Charles reputation to handle rogue and detrimental family members and The Crown.
It reflects badly on him, and by extension, The Institution.

The Queen *kinda* got a pass as She was his Mother. It has long been assumed that Charles and Andrew were not close anyway, so for Charles not to shut down Andrew allegedly wanting to reopen the lawsuit and settlement is simple bewildering ! To what end ? Andrew wants to rehabilitate his *image* ...... Cant someone tell him that is IMPOSSIBLE .

Doesn't Charles realize the bad press this encourages ? To lump in the with the OTHER never-ending press from another bitter jealous rogue royal across the Seas ?

Oh, and I will add "Soap Opera" like. Just what The Famiily-Firm needs. This potential "reopening" of a sordid, salacious and disgusting chapter in Andrew's foolish and morally challenged life should be over.
Accept some responsibility for palling around with loathsome degenerates and count the many UNEARNED blessings you enjoy in life.

King Charles, I'm expecting more of you to rein in these destabilizing losers in your immediate Family.

I totally agree. I was actually surprised that Andrew was allowed to walk with the family to church at Christmas but I presumed it was purely because it was a family occasion. I do hope that Charles wasn't using it to test the water with the public so to speak, baring in mind that the crowds there were die hard royalists so didn't represent the public at large. I also rolled my eyes at Andrew engaging with the crowd rather than just waving and walking on, he is desperate to return to public life and it shows. I get the impression that William won't tolerate him but the King actually might, I hope I am wrong.

 

[Denville]

Great Post, couldn't agree more. The only thing that bothers me is I have read that Charles knows that Andrew is trying to overturn his decision to settle and apparently supports it. That's baffling.

and what evidence is there of this? Im ssure that Charles is aware that even if Andrew gets exonerated to some extent he is tainted and cant work again

 

[Granada]

Denville, I don't believe Sophie25 was saying "He's not allowed to go to Church now"....it was just another attempt by Andrew to get his face out there on the very public and prestigious Christmas Day Family " walkabout ".

I believe, If it meant so much he could have gone to the earlier Church Service anyway. I think Charles attends both. The Queen was known as a woman of GREAT faith. Allegedly, Charles is quite spiritual and interested in many different Faiths. Never heard that about Andrew though.

He wasn't even included in his daughter Beatrice's Wedding Picture, the gorgeous one in front of the Church with JUST The couple and The Queen and Philip that was released to the Public either. I'm sure that rankled him.

Then, when he escorted The Queen at Prince Philips Memorial Service, it certainly sent off bad vibes and optics. I have read conflicting accounts.
The Queen WANTED Andrew to fully escort her to her Seat OR, The Dean of Westminster was supposed to TAKE the Queen to her Seat, after She walked into the Church with Andrew.
But Andrew brazenly defied that plan, and escorted her to her Seat.

What's true ??? I have no idea.

All I can say, if Andrew sees an opportunity to get his "snout in the trough"..... he jumps at it. Controversy be damned.

 

[HenRach Dominion]

Well, it appears that HRH The Duke of York isn't the most hated member of the British Royal Family so he may conflate that will actual affection so he's shooting his shot. People have short memories, and alleged sexual predators and their enablers getting off scot free is as common as a day ending in y.

 

[Somebody]

I just don't get Andrew. Can't Charles just say enough ! I am King and you will have zero public role ?

Why does he keep "rattling the cage"? Its not just the photo with Virginia or her allegations. And decades long association with Pedo Epstein and procurer Ghislaine Maxwell. There are pictures of the three of them together from Buckingham Palace to Balmoral. They were CLOSE. He THEN sealed his fate with the train wreck Emily Maitlis Interview, ALL BY HIMSELF.

On top of his known arrogance and treatment of others.

So now we have never-ending Sussex Circus, this debacle fills and fuels the Media. Why the York Girls or Edward and Anne just don't stage an "Intervention" to convince Andrew that his public life is over I don't know. It certainly does The Monarchy no good.

Charles has supposedly let Fergie back in to attend private Family Events like Christmas at Sandringham as a guest. How many olive branches does Charles have ?

Why doesnt Andrew just enjoy his uber lavish lifestyle in retirement ? Travel, play golf and enjoy his grandkids ?

Personally, I'm not very hopeful how Andrew and Harry seem to just be running roughshod over Charles now with their own personal issues and grievances playing out in Public.
BOTH need to be ignored and sidelined.

Andrew you settled. Its over, nothing good can come from opening that Pandora's Box.

His public life IS already over - and has been for two years. His family life, however, is not, so, of course, he is still invited to family occasions and should be (continuted to be) allowed to attend church with his family as well and not be relegated to a 'different service' just so the public won't see him.

 

[Granada]

Somebody, I completely understand, but I still think Andrew laying low or lower would be beneficial right now, to Charles and The Firms attempts to distance themselves for his PR disasters.
The "Honeymoon Period" for Charles and the very high public goodwill shown to him after the Queens death might start to dissipate. How much ? Who knows. The Sussex allegations and drama isn't helping either.

People are worried about sky high heat, electric, and food bills. On top of escalations in Ukraine. Having uber rich and privileged "Royals" perceived as being decadent and out of touch doesn't help. That's Andrew.

Luckily, The Wales Family, inspite of H & M best efforts, aren't really tarnished by the continuous grenades being thrown across the Pond.

Its just that Charles IS more vulnerable to bad press and optics. He doesn't need the Andrew Pandora-Epstein Box being reopened. Charles has never been viewed as forceful, EXCEPT FOR Camilla, saying She and the relationship was "non negotiable".
William is viewed as stronger and sterner stuff, than his Father is.

He will be 75 next November. I just feel bad for "these" controversies surrounding his new Reign, that's all. Caused by Andrew and The Sussex's.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

If Andrew is convinced that he did nothing wrong, and was made to take one for the Team because he was viewed as a high value target by VG and the others, it makes sense that he refuses to go quietly.

He will probably go to his grave trying to rehabilitate his reputation.

He refuses to face the problem of the stroll in Central Park with the late creep. Or his disastrous ham handed interview.

If Andrew had spent his life building a reputation as a generally generous, kind and down to earth Royal he would have enough people in the press and public to help him now.

But he didn't, and he doesn't. Other than his loyal and adoring ex wife and children he is alone.

 

[Lilyflo]

Maybe the British Royal Family needs more bodies on the ground, and getting HRH The Duke of York publicly exonerated is a step toward restoring him to a royal role?

Andrew will never be publicly exonerated because he can never undo the fact that the public now knows how friendly he was with a sex offender after he was convicted. We all heard him say that he stayed at a convicted sex offender's house rather than the British Embassy. We heard him say that he didn't regret that friendship. We also heard his ridiculous reasons why he couldn't have been at Tramps nightclub, how he couldn't sweat, how the infamous photo could be a fake because those aren't his fingers blah, blah. It almost doesn't matter what happens now with Ms Guiffre because he can't exonerate himself from his own stupid words and actions.

I would be stunned if Charles even considers allowing Andrew any kind of official role because he must know from the polls that the British public would go bonkers and Charles doesn't want the wrath of the nation on his head. I can't see William standing for it either - he definitely wouldn't want the future of the BRF to be tainted by a dodgy royal uncle swaggering around in public.

 

[Denville]

Charles is not going to encourage or allow Andrew to have a public role again. THat doesn't mean that Andrew must spend the rest of his life completely in seclusion nor that CH might not be a bit relieved if his brother were partly exonerated. His behavour was bad, but not that bad.

 

[King of the Jungle]

I presume that Andrew's family believe him to be telling the truth and that he has a fair chance of clearing his name.
He will never escape the fact that he associated with Epstein.

 

[Denville]

He is never going to work in public again, no charities will touch him etc. that does not mean he's a monster and should never ever be seen in public. Im sure hte family disapprove moslty of his behaviour, but if its possible to say anything in his defence Im sure they would like to be able to see him occasioanlly go out in public without being attacked.

 

[yukari]

Queen ‘suggested Prince Andrew take on charity work’ to clear his name after scandal

(...)

Sources close to the disgraced duke told The Independent that the late monarch suggested the move could provide a path to redemption after stepping back from royal duties.

“Andrew’s mother suggested the route forward was taking on a charitable cause,” a source told*The Independent.*“Other members of the family agreed and saw it as his only way to rehabilitation.”

(...)

The idea was that he might make a return to public life in a fashion similar to the disgraced government minister John Profumo who took on charity work after public revelations of an affair with a prostitute.

(...)

Sources close to Andrew believe he hopes that overturning Ms Giuffre’s claim could let him return to royal duties but US law would require the prince to argue legal reasons for reversing the deal, including mistake or accident.

The Independent revealed that allies of the duke say they are worried he is not coping with the disgrace of the scandal, which saw him unable to wear military uniform during his mother, Elizabeth II’s, funeral procession in September. They fear Andrew is not coming to terms with his new demoted position in the royal family.

(...)

Oh dear, his PR team surely has been working overtime ....

Seriously, what's wrong with living a quiet private life? He's 62, most people in that age are preparing their retirement lives anyway, why he's still thinking about returning to public life? It's not as if he's in risk of becoming homeless or needing work to buy food.

 

[Lilyflo]

Profumo had an affair with a model not a prostitute and then lied about it in parliament. He wasn't friends with a prolific sex offender. Profumo worked behind the scenes for charity and didn't seek any public roles. The situations are very different and I doubt any charity would want to link themselves with Andrew.