The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June-July 2021

[Sandy345]

I know in Human Resources, there is a very thorough investigation and evidence. Just curious: Why would William not ask Meghan. Why would Harry need to speak for her or why were not the couple brought in to talk to William. Was William "in charge" of all the staff? I thought the couples shared their offices. The brothers obviously were not getting along. I think putting them in the same office may not have been the best idea.

I did not say that William assumed the allegations were true, I said IF he did it would be wrong.

This is Lacey's account, that Harry "hung up on William" he talked about emotions of both brothers, he never apparently gave a source of this.Lacey has made contentions about what happened in both editions of his book Battle of Brothers.

 

[TLLK]

^^^I truly didn't see the word "if" in your post though perhaps I have somehow missed it.


Here's what you posted and what I responded to.

Originally Posted by Sandy345
I don't think William cares for Meghan. I don't believe Meghan is a "bully". There were never reports of her being "abusive" before. And the tea cup episode sounds like gossip that takes a life of its own.

It also would be very wrong for William to assume these stories are true about his sister in law

I know in Human Resources, there is a very thorough investigation and evidence.

Actually BP HR had already been involved as Jason Knauf went to Samantha Carruthers who was the head of HR first to share his concerns and it was reportedly agreed that what was reported fit the definition of bullying. It was afterwards that Knauf and Case shared the information with William. As to why William spoke with Prince Harry first, I would tend to believe that he chose to speak to with his brother because he had a longer relationship with Harry than Meghan. Obviously other conversations had to follow when the households were split up.

Samantha Carruthers, the former head of HR for William and Kate’s staff as well as Harry and Meghan’s, was reportedly the first person to receive the official bullying complaints against the Sussexes. She is said to have “agreed with [Knauf] on all accounts that the situation was very serious,” according to the Times. She left the royal household in August 2019 to be the deputy chair of the board of trustees at the childhood bereavement charity Winston’s Wish.

 

[Leopoldine]

Re Emmy Nomination.

Oprah Winfrey is a major player in the industry and this project got a lot of attention. The relationship of Emmys, Oscars, etc. to merit has been largely missing for decades. Its all about money and promotion and power.

The laughable part will be the Sussexes showing up at the awards ceremony.
Not as producers, not as featured speakers, just useful props for Oprah and her industry friends.

Yes!

While Oprah was IMO a skillful inquisitor during that interview, the possibility that the nomination leading to H and M attending and/or presenting at the Emmys must be catnip to the organizers and people in H&M's tent.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I know in Human Resources, there is a very thorough investigation and evidence. Just curious: Why would William not ask Meghan. Why would Harry need to speak for her or why were not the couple brought in to talk to William. Was William "in charge" of all the staff? I thought the couples shared their offices. The brothers obviously were not getting along. I think putting them in the same office may not have been the best idea.

I did not say that William assumed the allegations were true, I said IF he did it would be wrong.

This is Lacey's account, that Harry "hung up on William" he talked about emotions of both brothers, he never apparently gave a source of this.Lacey has made contentions about what happened in both editions of his book Battle of Brothers.

When the Prince William and Prince Harry Foundation was first established the brothers were single, both in the service, and getting along extremely well. However, since William retained his own office while Harry was put under the auspices of Buckingham Palace after the split, it is obvious that William had the final word over staffing. He is the future King.

It would have been almost impossible for Joseph Knauf or anyone on the staff to ask Meghan about anything. I think the reason William got involved because the allegations were against a member of the family, who couldn't be fired or otherwise disciplined. I also think it is very natural for William to talk with Harry before talking with Meghan. William and Meghan had only known each other for a few months and Meghan was pregnant at the time.

Being in business with family is always complicated, but more so when there are credible allegations of misbehavior against another family member.

 

[Sandy345]

Thanks for the clarification. Did they increase the staffing from when it was just the William and Harry foundation?

TLLK, I did use the "conditional" would in my statement re: William. Just to clarify.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Thanks for the clarification. Did they increase the staffing from when it was just the William and Harry foundation?

Interesting question. I am fairly sure the staff has grown over the years, particularly after both William and Harry became full-time royals. It seems that Meghan was assigned staff after the wedding but I am not sure if the number of people working for the foundation increased. I wonder if William and Catherine still received the same amount of funding after Harry and Meghan left.

 

[TLLK]

Thanks for the clarification. Did they increase the staffing from when it was just the William and Harry foundation?

TLLK, I did use the "conditional" would in my statement re: William. Just to clarify.

Thank you for clarifying as I was looking for the word "if" from your earlier reply.

 

[MARG]

I know in Human Resources, there is a very thorough investigation and evidence. Just curious: Why would William not ask Meghan. Why would Harry need to speak for her or why were not the couple brought in to talk to William. Was William "in charge" of all the staff? I thought the couples shared their offices. The brothers obviously were not getting along. I think putting them in the same office may not have been the best idea.

I did not say that William assumed the allegations were true, I said IF he did it would be wrong.

This is Lacey's account, that Harry "hung up on William" he talked about emotions of both brothers, he never apparently gave a source of this.Lacey has made contentions about what happened in both editions of his book Battle of Brothers.

Having worked in several places where complaints were made about someone and an investigation ensued, it beggars belief that when the very first complaint was made, instead of the Supervisor or boss at KP HR being professional and pro-active, they do not investigate what could have been a simple misunderstanding that could probably have been sorted. Instead, they didn't speak to Meghan or Harry and Meghan and hear the other side of the argument if indeed there was one.

That made me very suspicious as honesty and integrity are essential in an HR situation and, whatever was happening, HR was not in the loop until months later when they had assembled several complaints and an official report was made followed by a very public announcement that the Duchess of Sussex was being investigated for bullying.

However, the first Meghan knows is when Harry and Willliam have a right-royal donnybrook and the media are already in possession of leaked information. Hardly fair or right to my way of thinking.

I've been watching a vlog about a family that moved to NZ from the US and it was a total culture shock. We don't expect people to routinely take work home or work 60 to 80 hours a week. That caused them a lot of stress because they were not used to a slow pace and worried they were missing something or doing things wrong.

 

[Alison H]

I think the reason William got involved because the allegations were against a member of the family, who couldn't be fired or otherwise disciplined.

Exactly. These situations are awkward enough in any workplace, but it was particularly awkward in this case. Was the head of HR supposed to tell Meghan that she was suspended from the Royal Family whilst the allegations were being investigated, or haul her into their office and ask her to give her side of the story, or issue her with a written warning about her behaviour? They couldn't have done that. It had to be dealt with by William.

In a lot of workplaces, the bully is one of the bosses, because they're the ones in the best position to bully people. It then really has to be deal with by a co-boss.

 

[Kataryn]

"Bullying" is such a modern offence. When you asked Diana, she was bullied by the "grey men" while they would nowadays accuse her to bully her staff. IMHO bullying is very often claimed in working relationships, where the people working together were forced to do so. Meghan on coming in had to accept the people already there and they had to accept her as the future princess Harry. When in that situation a cultural difference in expectation of behavior of principal/staff happens, it is bound to lead to situations that need adjustments. From both sides!

On the one hand there are trusted Royal servants who had taken on the job even though it is not well payed because they belief in the monarchy. They have been selected for their service due to their qualifications, have been entrusted with doing Royal = important stuff, been encouraged to follow the rules and revere "Their Royal Highnesses".

Now Harry presents them an energetic, self-confident American as his new Duchess and their boss. A lady who knows nothing about the workings inside the firm. probably Harry told her that the firm is "traditional" which to Cinderella Meghan meand: they do what I want because I am their new princess. For an American "becoming princess" means something very different than for an European institution steeped in history.

Remember all the gossip when Mary of Denmark allegedly went to "princess school"? I do and think she did the right thing. All young princesses of former times were taught what to expect when they married into a different House. The world still remembers Marie-Antoinette as the young Crown Princess who was forced (via her imperial mother in Vienna no less) to say one sentence to the king's mistress: "There are many people today at Versailles". First and last sentence ever to Mme Du Barry but the king and court were content, all was as it should be, the institution worked. That was 250 years ago (it happened in 1772) but there still is talk about it today.

So I guess we have to accept that people will talk about Meghan as well...
Meghan was untrained and obviously did not see the need to receive further training. Or did she, but, like Marie Antoinette, listened to the wrong people who enjoyed her problems secretly? In Versailles, it had been the king's daughters, the Royal aunts of the Dauphine's husband... Who might have given the wrong advice to Meghan?

I think we all agree that it was difficult for Meghan to enter the "court" of her husband and his brother, difficult for those people working there as well. IMHO these problems should have been worked out behind closed doors, not with the tabloids hanging on every claim made against Meghan. My position is that if I don't have all the information, I absent myself from posting opinions, I only think about possibilities of what might have happened. Some sort of speculation, yes, but IMHO better than to judge Meghan for things that might never have happened or not happened as told.

Otherwise it might happen again what happened in France: the Austrian queen Marie Antoinette become such an object of hatred, she was condemned to death and executed. No, that's a joke but reading some of these posts and thinking about what was said about poor Marie Antoinette, one might get the idea...

 

[muriel]

My position is that if I don't have all the information, I absent myself from posting opinions, I only think about possibilities of what might have happened.

Very well said, and I could not agree more.

In this specific situation, the reality is that none of us know what really transpired. But what we do know is that things spiralled downward quite quickly, and the result is clear for all to see.

Unfortunate as it is, one would expect that H&M, having denounced royal life, to get on with building their commercial careers. Instead what the last few months has brought is H&M presenting a series of half-truths and falsehoods, and continuing to air their perceived grievances in public. Not sure how they expect to benefit from it.

 

[Sandy345]

Exactly. These situations are awkward enough in any workplace, but it was particularly awkward in this case. Was the head of HR supposed to tell Meghan that she was suspended from the Royal Family whilst the allegations were being investigated, or haul her into their office and ask her to give her side of the story, or issue her with a written warning about her behaviour? They couldn't have done that. It had to be dealt with by William.

In a lot of workplaces, the bully is one of the bosses, because they're the ones in the best position to bully people. It then really has to be deal with by a co-boss.

I am curious, would it not go "above" William since he is heir to the heir. Would it be brought to the Prince of Wales attention for instance since he is above William in the hierarchy. Even if it is William's Office, he still reports to his father and his grandmother so to speak. There could be an "appeal process."

I personally don't think since they were not getting along (allegedly even pre Meghan) maybe the office sharing Of William and Harry was not a good idea.

 

[_Heather_]

I don't think William cares for Meghan. I don't believe Meghan is a "bully". There were never reports of her being "abusive" before. And the tea cup episode sounds like gossip that takes a life of its own.

The thing is, there are rumors and stories. Lots of them. And lots of them dating back several years. We aren't allowed to discuss them in detail here so I won't go into them but they are there. And not only are there rumors about years of questionable behavior prior to and after the marriage, there's now rumors beginning to spread regarding treatment of staff in California. Now, again, they're rumors and none of us know whether or not there's any truth to them. However, I tend to believe that where there's smoke there's fire and while the details certainly might be exaggerated or even, in some cases, made up, generally rumors of this sort don't come from nothing and given the age and nature of the rumors, it's likely there's at least a kernel of truth to a lot of them. Granted, there's always going to be some crazy National Enguirer type of craziness, i.e. Meghan pregnant with quadruplets and all of them to be named Diana, Harry and Meghan found adopting BatBoy, etc. that we can all just go ahead and write off for the insanity that it is. The long-standing stories, though, of treatment of family, friends, employees, and those Meghan (and sometimes even Harry) considered beneath her are, and should be, a cause for concern if you're the RF, the PR team assigned to Meghan and Harry, or the team assigned to "show her the ropes" within the family and the Firm that she's married into.

 

[Sandy345]

If Meghan were so "out there" the way some of these sources (some not named) indicate, she would never have lasted on the TV show, if there is "outrageous" behavior and it bothers other cast members and so on, that person would be out and probably during the first season. Where there's smoke does not always indicate fire. Did she have a "staff" in California? If so, they would have spoken out pre wedding or pre engagement for that matter IMO. Social media makes it difficult to hide things.

 

[_Heather_]

If Meghan were so "out there" the way some of these sources (some not named) indicate, she would never have lasted on the TV show, if there is "outrageous" behavior and it bothers other cast members and so on, that person would be out and probably during the first season. Where there's smoke does not always indicate fire. Did she have a "staff" in California? If so, they would have spoken out pre wedding or pre engagement for that matter IMO. Social media makes it difficult to hide things.

I don't know if she had a staff in California prior to her wedding. I would assume not. However, she does have one now and there are stories starting to emerge from the past year and a half from staff in both her home and at least one home they stayed in for a while that are, well, less than complimentary.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

"Bullying" is such a modern offence. When you asked Diana, she was bullied by the "grey men" while they would nowadays accuse her to bully her staff. IMHO bullying is very often claimed in working relationships, where the people working together were forced to do so. Meghan on coming in had to accept the people already there and they had to accept her as the future princess Harry. When in that situation a cultural difference in expectation of behavior of principal/staff happens, it is bound to lead to situations that need adjustments. From both sides!

On the one hand there are trusted Royal servants who had taken on the job even though it is not well payed because they belief in the monarchy. They have been selected for their service due to their qualifications, have been entrusted with doing Royal = important stuff, been encouraged to follow the rules and revere "Their Royal Highnesses".

Now Harry presents them an energetic, self-confident American as his new Duchess and their boss. A lady who knows nothing about the workings inside the firm. probably Harry told her that the firm is "traditional" which to Cinderella Meghan meand: they do what I want because I am their new princess. For an American "becoming princess" means something very different than for an European institution steeped in history.

Remember all the gossip when Mary of Denmark allegedly went to "princess school"? I do and think she did the right thing. All young princesses of former times were taught what to expect when they married into a different House. The world still remembers Marie-Antoinette as the young Crown Princess who was forced (via her imperial mother in Vienna no less) to say one sentence to the king's mistress: "There are many people today at Versailles". First and last sentence ever to Mme Du Barry but the king and court were content, all was as it should be, the institution worked. That was 250 years ago (it happened in 1772) but there still is talk about it today.

So I guess we have to accept that people will talk about Meghan as well...
Meghan was untrained and obviously did not see the need to receive further training. Or did she, but, like Marie Antoinette, listened to the wrong people who enjoyed her problems secretly? In Versailles, it had been the king's daughters, the Royal aunts of the Dauphine's husband... Who might have given the wrong advice to Meghan?

I think we all agree that it was difficult for Meghan to enter the "court" of her husband and his brother, difficult for those people working there as well. IMHO these problems should have been worked out behind closed doors, not with the tabloids hanging on every claim made against Meghan. My position is that if I don't have all the information, I absent myself from posting opinions, I only think about possibilities of what might have happened. Some sort of speculation, yes, but IMHO better than to judge Meghan for things that might never have happened or not happened as told.

Otherwise it might happen again what happened in France: the Austrian queen Marie Antoinette become such an object of hatred, she was condemned to death and executed. No, that's a joke but reading some of these posts and thinking about what was said about poor Marie Antoinette, one might get the idea...

I do agree with you, however, after the mistakes they made with Diana , the Firm was careful with giving help to Catherine and it has been widely reported that Meghan did get “princess lessons” from Samantha Cohen.

 

[HighGoalHighDreams]

If Meghan were so "out there" the way some of these sources (some not named) indicate, she would never have lasted on the TV show, if there is "outrageous" behavior and it bothers other cast members and so on, that person would be out and probably during the first season. Where there's smoke does not always indicate fire. Did she have a "staff" in California? If so, they would have spoken out pre wedding or pre engagement for that matter IMO. Social media makes it difficult to hide things.

I cannot say I believe these things being insinuated about Meghan, but nor does this make any sense to me. If you have followed popular culture at all (heck, I don't follow popular culture at all, and I have not avoided learning about this), you will learn that contrary to your assertions, people who are not only "bullies" but downright criminally abusive not only don't get ousted after the first season on shows, but manage to thrive and move up on shows and in the world of television in general. People simply don't get removed from television roles because they treat people beneath them in the hierarchy poorly, as we have sadly learned in recent years. This argument holds no water.

Also, I cannot believe that anyone who had a grudge against Meghan or anything negative to say against her would have done so pre wedding or pre engagement, if those people exist. Meghan was marrying into one of the most powerful positions in the world and was receiving wildly popular press. Such a person would have been (1) disbelieved and (2) would have gained nothing from it except to turn some of the globe's most influential people against themselves. To add to this, it was very widely reported that Meghan was "retaining" a huge range of people from her previous life, using her makeup team from Suits for her wedding, for example. If you were a makeup artist who personally loathed Meghan, would you speak up to have your name in the paper and have a dozen people in the UK think "maybe she isn't great," or would you keep quiet in the hopes that you would be a part of the team chosen to do her makeup on her wedding day?

I am guessing that Meghan has had far more people suddenly become her friend than her enemy since her atmospheric rise to the top, no matter how different it may feel to her at times.

 

[ACO]

I don't know if she had a staff in California prior to her wedding. I would assume not. However, she does have one now and there are stories starting to emerge from the past year and a half from staff in both her home and at least one home they stayed in for a while that are, well, less than complimentary.

Stories from her staff in California? Uh huh. What are the source of these “stories” I haven’t heard about until just now? And I hope it isn’t social media because that rabbit hole of conspiracy theories is quite something.

 

[TLLK]

Exactly. These situations are awkward enough in any workplace, but it was particularly awkward in this case. Was the head of HR supposed to tell Meghan that she was suspended from the Royal Family whilst the allegations were being investigated, or haul her into their office and ask her to give her side of the story, or issue her with a written warning about her behaviour? They couldn't have done that. It had to be dealt with by William.

In a lot of workplaces, the bully is one of the bosses, because they're the ones in the best position to bully people. It then really has to be deal with by a co-boss.

Yes it was especially awkward and I agree that once Samantha Carruthers (BP HR) had agreed with Knauf that the reported information fit the definition of bullying, that it had to be handled by one of the other bosses which was William. To be honest, I believe that there were likely issues in the past with other BRF members ie: Andrew. There was a system in place for staff to report to HR when it involved a fellow member of staff, but not for one when it involved one of the "principals." This is what Jason Knauf was pointing out in his email. From what I recall reading, Knauf did have a goal of bringing Palace HR guidelines up to a corporate standard. If BP, CH, WC and KP are to uphold their stated Dignity in the Workplace policy, then the principals have to be held to the same standard of behavior.



Hopefully when the internal investigation is completed that there will be a clear system of how to report and respond to these types of HR situations.

I am curious, would it not go "above" William since he is heir to the heir. Would it be brought to the Prince of Wales attention for instance since he is above William in the hierarchy. Even if it is William's Office, he still reports to his father and his grandmother so to speak. There could be an "appeal process."

Sandy345-Once Samantha Carruthers (Head of BP HR at the time) had agreed with Knauf's reports that there were clear indications that bullying of staff was taking place, then one of the KP "bosses" Prince William was informed. Which would be the appropriate channel of communication to go to the head of that division so to say. Then the higher ups PoW and then the Queen would be informed. The break up of the joint household would need their approval ultimately as they provide the funding via the Sovereign's Grant and the Duchy of Cornwall.



Also it's clear to me that the Queen and the PoW were obviously informed and involved because after the breakup of the joint household, the Sussexes requested their own separate funding and an office to be located at Frogmore Cottage. That request was denied by the Queen and the PoW. I believe that this was in part that at BP there could be greater oversight over the situation between the Sussexes and their staff. They like the Princess Royal and the Wessexes would have their office located at BP.

I cannot say I believe these things being insinuated about Meghan, but nor does this make any sense to me. If you have followed popular culture at all (heck, I don't follow popular culture at all, and I have not avoided learning about this), you will learn that contrary to your assertions, people who are not only "bullies" but downright criminally abusive not only don't get ousted after the first season on shows, but manage to thrive and move up on shows and in the world of television in general. People simply don't get removed from television roles because they treat people beneath them in the hierarchy poorly, as we have sadly learned in recent years. This argument holds no water.

Also, I cannot believe that anyone who had a grudge against Meghan or anything negative to say against her would have done so pre wedding or pre engagement, if those people exist. Meghan was marrying into one of the most powerful positions in the world and was receiving wildly popular press. Such a person would have been (1) disbelieved and (2) would have gained nothing from it except to turn some of the globe's most influential people against themselves. To add to this, it was very widely reported that Meghan was "retaining" a huge range of people from her previous life, using her makeup team from Suits for her wedding, for example. If you were a makeup artist who personally loathed Meghan, would you speak up to have your name in the paper and have a dozen people in the UK think "maybe she isn't great," or would you keep quiet in the hopes that you would be a part of the team chosen to do her makeup on her wedding day?

I am guessing that Meghan has had far more people suddenly become her friend than her enemy since her atmospheric rise to the top, no matter how different it may feel to her at times.

I agree HighGoalHighDreams especially with your remarks regarding the television/film industry. Quite likely one of the best examples of a setting that has been well known for over a century of bullying, harassment and abuse. My impression is that it's very fast paced and decisions are made very quickly with timelines that differ from that of a typical office. It's possible that Meghan viewed her interactions with KP staff as "normal" in her former career. After all this was the the environment that she had spent years working in.



By contrast, other people who have married into other royal families had a previous career/job in an corporate or office setting with a different environment regarding communication, timelines and employee expectations might have had an easier transition from one office to another.

 

[Heavs]

The thing is, there's an independent investigation that was held to determine how the royal households handle things like this better in the future.

Whatever actually happened, a number of staff felt bullied by Meghan (and perhaps Harry) and that the work environment was toxic. There was also no way to safely make a complaint because Meghan wasn't actually employed. Hopefully that has now been addressed for future staff and BRF members.

But the fact that one was convened shows that whatever did happen it's not just tabloid rumours, that it was felt serious enough to change (and modernise!) the way the offices are run including the split. We also know staff did leave and continue to leave from the Sussexes new ventures in the US. That puts it at a higher level than [insert story about Meghan with no proof here] regardless of the exact details which are sketchier. Also a lot of things coming from Scobie (thus presumably the Sussexes) aren't exactly denying the accusations just saying "Meghan has a dossier of why they were bad employees who couldn't handle her brilliance".

I kind of assume that there was more than one conversation with Harry and Meghan about what went on and a chance for Meghan and Harry to explain and amend the way things were done but it was "not productive" and that's when the split became a reality.

Now Harry presents them an energetic, self-confident American as his new Duchess and their boss. A lady who knows nothing about the workings inside the firm. probably Harry told her that the firm is "traditional" which to Cinderella Meghan meand: they do what I want because I am their new princess. For an American "becoming princess" means something very different than for an European institution steeped in history.

Remember all the gossip when Mary of Denmark allegedly went to "princess school"? I do and think she did the right thing. All young princesses of former times were taught what to expect when they married into a different House. The world still remembers Marie-Antoinette as the young Crown Princess who was forced (via her imperial mother in Vienna no less) to say one sentence to the king's mistress: "There are many people today at Versailles". First and last sentence ever to Mme Du Barry but the king and court were content, all was as it should be, the institution worked. That was 250 years ago (it happened in 1772) but there still is talk about it today.

So I guess we have to accept that people will talk about Meghan as well...
Meghan was untrained and obviously did not see the need to receive further training. Or did she, but, like Marie Antoinette, listened to the wrong people who enjoyed her problems secretly? In Versailles, it had been the king's daughters, the Royal aunts of the Dauphine's husband... Who might have given the wrong advice to Meghan?

I think it is possible Meghan came in with the "I'm the Duchess here" attitude. Along with "We're going to change things and do things our own way". That's certainly how some things come across anyway. She knows what she wants and goes for it good or bad.

Many of the staff were American as well, Sara Latham even worked for Hilary Clinton, many were used to the private sector business and long hours of work at high pressure. Meghan didn't actually have any experience of being a boss or working in a high pressure company.

The Firm knew the issues and potential dangers of throwing a 30 something American to the wolves and tried to find suitable people to mentor her, including Americans who knew the BRF, Samantha Cohen and Sophie who used to be a career woman.

Even in "Finding Freedom" Scobie says Meghan was offered a lot of advice on everything but preferred to do things her own way. He says it in the best possible light of course.

To be fair it seems that Harry also had the attitude that they were going to do what they wanted, Meghan was perfect as she was and everyone who didn't agree was out to get them. He's certainly displayed that attitude in interviews.

 

[Sandy345]

I do agree with you, however, after the mistakes they made with Diana , the Firm was careful with giving help to Catherine and it has been widely reported that Meghan did get “princess lessons” from Samantha Cohen.

TO be honest I don't think there's such a thing as "Princess Lessons." Diana later complained she got no "lessons" even when she moved into BP and was left to her own devices. There is nothing on record or in print that shows that such a thing exists. Is it how to walk into a room, which fork to pick up, et al. I'm curious. I never read Meghan got such lessons or even Kate.

 

[Claire]

I really think that is more learn from example and follow what the others are doing. And then again it comes down to her husband getting her the people to show her or showing her himself.

 

[JR76]

TO be honest I don't think there's such a thing as "Princess Lessons." Diana later complained she got no "lessons" even when she moved into BP and was left to her own devices. There is nothing on record or in print that shows that such a thing exists. Is it how to walk into a room, which fork to pick up, et al. I'm curious. I never read Meghan got such lessons or even Kate.

While there may not have been any "princess lessons" for Diana, she was given Lady Susan Hussey to teach her how it all worked and guide her in her new role. But according to Lady Pamela Hicks (who truth to be told might not be the most unbiased of sources) "she didn’t want to be told anything. ‘That’s boring, Sue,’ she’d say. Instead, she wanted to listen to her music and go disco-ing or to some jive concert."".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.va...rincess-diana-discoing-mountbatten-memoir/amp

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Stories from her staff in California? Uh huh. What are the source of these “stories” I haven’t heard about until just now? And I hope it isn’t social media because that rabbit hole of conspiracy theories is quite something.

I'm curious about this as well.

 

[TLLK]

Many of the staff were American as well, Sara Latham even worked for Hilary Clinton, many were used to the private sector business and long hours of work at high pressure. Meghan didn't actually have any experience of being a boss or working in a high pressure company.

Yes I have to agree Heavs. She came from a very different industry culture than the typical office setting, nor did she have experience as being the boss at any point in her career. However even Omid Scobie has more or less confirmed that she was determined to do things her way even though she had no experience in this work environment.

 

[Erin9]

The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June 2021-

It is notable to me that Harry and Meghan took responsibility for nothing that went wrong in their Oprah interview. Or Harry in subsequent interviews. Nothing. Everything was someone else’s fault. They were great- it was everyone else that was the problem. So- just how receptive were they to being told “no”, to criticism, to staff issues, to anything that led up to the end result of them both quitting and moving to the US? That’s not to say I think what went wrong was all on them though. But I don’t think it was a good idea to portray themselves as 100% the victims.

I have no idea whether the tabloid reports are totally fabricated, partially true or completely true. But the email proves that complaints were indeed made about Meghan. How valid they were, we don’t know. But JK thought they were worth a formal email outlining his concerns about her behavior and how such complaints were to be handled. So- something wasn’t working. Meghan herself has made it clear she was miserable. (So- did that in any way carry over to how staff were treated? IDK.) Staff did seem to quit rather quickly. The households were split. Things went wrong at rather warp speed.

 

[camelot23ca]

It is notable to me that Harry and Meghan took responsibility for nothing that went wrong in their Oprah interview. Or Harry in subsequent interviews. Nothing. Everything was someone else’s fault. They were great- it was everyone else that was the problem. So- just how receptive were they to being told “no”, to criticism, to anything that led up to the end result of them both quitting and moving to the US? That’s not to say I think what went wrong was all on them though. But I don’t think it was a good idea to portray themselves as 100% the victims.

That’s one thing I noticed with the Oprah interview. Not only did Meghan and Harry not discuss what part they might have played in the way things turned out, but Oprah didn’t push them. Oprah’s never been overly hard on her celebrity guests, but she used to be able to ask questions that at least invited a degree of reflection. Even when she was clearly very sympathetic to what the guest was saying, she would at least throw in some little challenge to make it slightly less obvious that the “interview” was publicity for the celebrity and whatever they were promoting at the time.

Regarding why the KP staff went to William, they may have felt that, at the time, William was the person who had the best chance of having a productive discussion with Harry. I think we can all guess how things would have gone if Charles had tried to talk to him. And even mentioning getting the Queen involved would have turned the situation into a crisis. Far from being out to get Meghan, I think looking back it’s clear that the staff protected her, and Harry, for as long as they could. They were probably hoping that William could reason with Harry, who could then have a productive discussion with Meghan and somehow disaster could be averted.

 

[UglyAmerican]

My read on the Lacey excerpt (https://archive.ph/vDCzZ) is that it doesn't say either way whether HR or anyone other than William had raised the issue with Meghan or Harry before William argued with Harry about it. It's not even clear that William was hearing any of it for the first time when he did that. If his reaction was really fury and immediate confrontation rather than disbelief and further investigation, that strongly suggests he already had some inkling of the problem, and the Knauf report was just official confirmation of it. That doesn't mean the reports were true, but it would mean that he'd heard about the problem before, at least in broad strokes. Given all of that, I'm not sure it's reasonable to assume that Meghan and Harry had never been told anything that entire time. I think it's fairly likely that Knauf only went to William after other attempts at resolving the issues had been tried, and failed. That would also be consistent with H&M's stance that Meghan wasn't the problem, everyone else was. If they strongly believed that, rightly or wrongly, lower-level attempts at resolution would have gotten nowhere.

 

[Heavs]

It is notable to me that Harry and Meghan took responsibility for nothing that went wrong in their Oprah interview. Or Harry in subsequent interviews. Nothing. Everything was someone else’s fault. They were great- it was everyone else that was the problem. So- just how receptive were they to being told “no”, to criticism, to staff issues, to anything that led up to the end result of them both quitting and moving to the US? That’s not to say I think what went wrong was all on them though. But I don’t think it was a good idea to portray themselves as 100% the victims.

I have no idea whether the tabloid reports are totally fabricated, partially true or completely true. But the email proves that complaints were indeed made about Meghan. How valid they were, we don’t know. But JK thought they were worth a formal email outlining his concerns about her behavior and how such complaints were to be handled. So- something wasn’t working. Meghan herself has made it clear she was miserable. (So- did that in any way carry over to how staff were treated? IDK.) Staff did seem to quit rather quickly. The households were split. Things went wrong at rather warp speed.

I was actually surprised that there wasn't one soft ball "is there anything you yourselves could have done differently?" even if it the answer was something like "we should have slowed down a bit". It would at least give the appearance of more balance.

But nope, nothing is ever, ever their fault. In FF Scobie even said that they were right to announce the pregnancy at Eugenie's wedding. Which until that point had only been a (big) rumour.

Harry blames his family for making him the unwilling "yes man" but doesn't acknowledge that maybe heavy drinking and drug use might be part of the reason for his apparent "burnout" and not his 100ish engagements that year (making him no 11 on the family league table). There's no reputable therapy that I know of that encourages people to blame everything on other people and do no introspection or work on themselves.

Even the family's alleged coolness towards him at the funeral - what did you expect?

Valentine Low said on The Times podcast that originally his piece mentioned that Meghan being miserable and overwhelmed may have played a part in her treatment of staff but it got taken out by the lawyers because it was too speculative and didn't have a proper source.

 

[UglyAmerican]

In FF Scobie even said that they were right to announce the pregnancy at Eugenie's wedding. Which until that point had only been a (big) rumour.

Yeah, I never understood that. Even if they were right that someone would have noticed because she was already showing (at, what, six weeks?), and even if they were right that speculation about it while on tour would have been bad for the tour somehow, and even if they were reasonable in wanting close relatives to know in advance of the formal announcement... why did it have to be announced at the wedding? They could have just waited until the next day to call or text or email everyone they thought needed to know in advance.