Royals & Nobles and Wealth, Costs and Finances

[Little_star]

Some various lists that I've seen over the years have measured wealth in different ways. Some have included personal wealth but also assets owned by the family and inheritances bestowed to her from her parents.

Maybe someone better informed about the Dutch can clarify, but Queen Beatrix's personal assets probably include some jewellery as well as property, such as the holiday home in Italy.

I only wondered becuase I've heard in the past that the Dutch RF, and Queen Beatrix in particular, retain a substantial fortune becuase of some shares she owns in oil companies. As you said though someone better ecquainted with the Dutch RF would be better informed.

I've heard that QEII's wealth has been measured (not necesssarily with the list you've posted) to include assets that she is in care of as the Queen of England, which includes paintings and national artifacts which would be highly valued.

The Forbes list is of QEII's personal wealth, so Buckingham Palace and certain jewels aren't included.

 

[Queen Zenobia]

I think the richest are the Leichestien royal family-excue my spelling of it. One of it's members made the Billionare Forbes list.

 

[Warren]

I think the richest are the Leichestien royal family-excue my spelling of it. One of it's members made the Billionare Forbes list.

The 2006 Forbes List has been provided by Little_star at post #197.

 

[Marengo]

How do they come up with these figures anyway? Two years ago Queen B was estimated at 2 billion, and now for 220 million euros. A dutch newspaper published recently that according to a courtier her personal capital was however less then 1 million, while Edwin de Roy van Zuydewijn said that they owned 7 billion. In overall, it is rediculous to make lists like these as the makers have no insight at all in the financial situation of the people on the list.

 

[BeatrixFan]

And they missed me off of the list yet again...

 

[Little_star]

Yes,I agree 250M$ is a lot and the moroccan monarchy should think seriously to tone donwn that coast,especially that some of the 20 palaces of the alaouite monarchy are not used by the king M6,as he said as he prefers to stay in a more modest palace.

I'm glad that you think spending £61,000 a month on stationery is excessive.

As for the 3d world country thing,I don't agree that is related to that,the alaouite family monarchy is older more than 1000years,and it's normal that their wealth is big,

I don't doubt that their wealth would be sizeable considering their total reign.

However, I don't think there's any justification for their excessive and downright depraved spending when you consider that one fifth of the population lives on $1 a day.

 

[Laraib]

Does anyone know where Jordan's royal families wealth is estimated at? Compared with other Arab royalties?

 

[soCal girl]

Does anyone know where Jordan's royal families wealth is estimated at? Compared with other Arab royalties?

I don't think it's ever been revealed.....but I'm sure it's a decent amount if one of their tiaras is worth $1 million. (That's what I was told, don't know if it's true)

 

[Little_star]

Does anyone know where Jordan's royal families wealth is estimated at? Compared with other Arab royalties?

There was alot of speculation at the time of King Husseins' death but it has never been revealed.
I doubt that it's anywhere in the league of the Saudi Royal Family or Sheikh Mohammed of Dubai.

 

[Diogenes]

I think the richest are the Leichestien royal family-excue my spelling of it. One of it's members made the Billionare Forbes list.

It's amazing how much you can make from big, triangular stamps!

 

[Warren]

It's amazing how much you can make from big, triangular stamps!

I think you mean private banks.

 

[Lil princess lost]

Jo of Palatine supplied this link in the Prince Amedo of Belgium thread.
http://www.time.com/time/europe/maga...hy/riches.html

It's interesting to note that the richest royals are IMO the least publiscised.

 

[User0501]

os

i started an earlier thread about the wealthiest german royals and thought it would be fun to talk about rich nobles in other parts of europe. can someone tell me about the duchess of alba or the duchess of medinaceli. i have read that they have huge landholdings.any details.what about any titled families recieving land that was confiscated by the communists.what happened to the estates of princess michael of kent or prince bernhard of the netherlands.

The richest royal is HM Queen Elizabeth II of Britain,HM Sultan Haji Hassanal Bolkiah of Brunei and HM The King of Saudi Arabia.

 

[Madame Royale]

The richest royal is HM Queen Elizabeth II of Britain and HM Sultan Haji Hassanal Bolkiah of Brunei.

The King of Saudi Arabia and the Sultan of Brunei I thought

 

[Mahoogie]

The Richest Royals are from the oil-rich countries like the Middle East and Brunei Darussalam..The rulers of UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Brunei are worth more than 10 billion dollars of wealth from oil revenues and mega business investments..Not even the wealthiest European royal family which is the Lichtenstein could match the wealth of these Gulf royalties.No need to argue who is the richest royal family or aristocrat, the Saudi royalty or Brunei are the winners for this..

 

[HRHofNothing]

Personal Wealth of Royal Families

I was reading that it is almost a foregone conclusion that Nepal will dispose its monarchy later this year. This got me to wondering about the personal finances of the Royal families:

The richest royal families in the world are the Saudis, The Emirs of the UAE and Brunei. I think Jordan has the "poorest" royal family in the Middle East?

The poorest royal families in my opinion are the Japanese, the Scandinavian and the Belgian monarchies.

I am wondering about the state of their personal finances because, if like Nepal, these countries decide to become republics tomorrow what will happen to these families. I think these poor ones, especially the Japanese will have to go "begging in the streets" or something to meet ends meet. Speaking of which, how is EX-King Constantine managing to survive?

I just want to increase my information on this topic and would appreciate a good discussion!

 

[sara1981]

what about British Royals Families have one?

 

[Henri M.]

The 'poorest' are the Dutch

The Dutch royal family owns nothing in private except some millions in investments and other properties.
Officially, that is.

In the 1960's and 1970's Queen Juliana has handed over almost everything of value in the ownership of family foundations to prevent a break up and fragmentation of the priceless historical collections.

This means that since about 40 years the Orange-Nassau possessions are no longer the property of a natural person but of a legal entity. In turn they have the 'usufruct' of all the historic collections. With other words, they have the owner rights without being the owner, let us say.

So, formally spoken, the Orange-Nassaus are 'poor'. There is a provision in the Act financial statute Royal House 1972 in which the Crown Domains and estates will be returned into the ownership of the family in case of an end to the monarchy in the Netherlands.

 

[HRHofNothing]

The Dutch royal family owns nothing in private except some millions in investments and other properties.
Officially, that is.

In the 1960's and 1970's Queen Juliana has handed over almost everything of value in the ownership of family foundations to prevent a break up and fragmentation of the priceless historical collections.

This means that since about 40 years the Orange-Nassau possessions are no longer the property of a natural person but of a legal entity. In turn they have the 'usufruct' of all the historic collections. With other words, they have the owner rights without being the owner, let us say.

So, formally spoken, the Orange-Nassaus are 'poor'. There is a provision in the Act financial statute Royal House 1972 in which the Crown Domains and estates will be returned into the ownership of the family in case of an end to the monarchy in the Netherlands.

Hogwash!

I am very interested in private wealth of royal families as research. Some Royal Families are a big question mark and some are not. All of the Royal Families try to hide their wealth (like they should) but none are as good at this as the House of Oranje-Nassau. Whatever "image" this family projects is nothing compared to the truth. They are worth BILLIONS. I was once told by a pretty high ranking officer at ABN-AMRO that QEII wishes that she had half the money her "friend" Beatrix has stashed away.

 

[Henri M.]

Hogwash!

I am very interested in private wealth of royal families as research. Some Royal Families are a big question mark and some are not. All of the Royal Families try to hide their wealth (like they should) but none are as good at this as the House of Oranje-Nassau. Whatever "image" this family projects is nothing compared to the truth. They are worth BILLIONS. I was once told by a pretty high ranking officer at ABN-AMRO that QEII wishes that she had half the money her "friend" Beatrix has stashed away.

That can be so, but it simply is not verifyable. The only thing that is verifyable is that there are various foundations and trusts in which almost 90% of all the Orange-Nassau possessions are placed.


The Queen does not own these properties.
The Queen can not sell these properties.
But all these properties are at the disposal of the Sovereign and her House.

Queen Wilhelmina was single kid and heiress of the Orange-Nassau possessions. Queen Juliana was single kid and heiress of the Orange-Nassau possessions. This was an unique situation: all the historic collections, jewels, artworks, gold-, silver- and crystalware, the finest china, the palaces' inventories, the archives, the carriages, the estates.... all came in hands of a single person.

Exactly for this reason, to keep the unique complete collections together, in the 1960's and 197o's all was placed into the ownership of foundations, all governed by a boards of governors, most of them chaired by the Prince of Orange. Result: the collections remained and will remain together and eventually even become bigger thanks to purchases or gifts. The future King Willem IV Alexander and the future Queen Catharina-Amalia already know that they will have all the means and attributes at their disposal, as already was at the disposal of Queen Wilhelmina in 1890 or Queen Juliana in 1948. That is a fantastic prospect. Nothing is broken up. Noithing will get lost. Nothing will be sold.


But the question was: how big is the personal wealth of the Queen. The answer is: not that much. All the gigantic possessions are no longer in hands of a natural person but in hands of legal entities who are the rightful owner of the possessions. All the Foundations and trusts also are given 'work-capital' for the maintenance and the upkeep of the vast properties. There is where the Orange-Nassau fortune went to. Thát are verifyable facts. The rest is all rumour and not backed by proofs.

 

[Hereditary Mapmaker]

Thanks for the explanation, Henri M. I wonder then how the wealth is measured in terms of Forbes or other publications/organizations. On most lists, I see Liechtenstein as the wealthiest of the European royal families (always citing the extensive art collection, or course). And usually it is the Netherlands and Luxembourg trading back and forth in 2nd and 3rd. Is it possible that all of the items in the different Dutch foundations are being counted into the wealth of the Netherlands royal family? IIRC, the deal is that they either retain their position as the monarch of all the items return to the private ownership of the families - so it's all essentially theirs anyway, isn't it? It isn't like they are holding it in trust for the people of the Netherlands. It's more a function of keeping all of the items together and avoiding paying taxes on them, isn't it? Please correct me if I am wrong about this.

Mapper

 

[hrhcp]

But the question was: how big is the personal wealth of the Queen. The answer is: not that much. All the gigantic possessions are no longer in hands of a natural person but in hands of legal entities who are the rightful owner of the possessions. All the Foundations and trusts also are given 'work-capital' for the maintenance and the upkeep of the vast properties. There is where the Orange-Nassau fortune went to. Thát are verifyable facts. The rest is all rumour and not backed by proofs.

I have often come across articles that state the Dutch Royal Family has a rather significant ownership of Royal Dutch/Shell Oil company shares.

As an aside, the Danish Royal Family at one time was a prominent owner of shares of Eurocan Pulp & Paper mill in Kitimat, BC, Canada. I think the Danish Royal Family owns and must have prospered well with Maersk shares, seeing that Mr. Maersk-McKinney is the only non-royal I know who is a holder of the Order of the Elephant sash, etc.

 

[hrhcp]

I think the richest are the Leichestien royal family-excue my spelling of it. One of it's members made the Billionare Forbes list.

Another richest family is supposedly the Luxemburg Royal Family.

Naturally both Liechtenstein and Luxemburg are little countries where wealth could be stashed away, from the eyes of the neighbouring tax authorities. That surely brings in a pretty penny to the hed shed.

 

[Eliza]

I would think Monaco would also rank up there on the list of richest, with those casinos! And naturally our royals from the Middle East states.

 

[Henri M.]

Is it possible that all of the items in the different Dutch foundations are being counted into the wealth of the Netherlands royal family?

Yes, Forbes conventiently counts the properties which are in hands of the various legal entities as:
- the Foundation Historic Collections House of Orange-Nassau
- the Foundation Regalia of the House of Orange-Nassau
- the Foundation Crown Properties House of Orange-Nassau
- the Foundation Royal House Archives
- etc.
as personal wealth of the Queen, which is bare nonsense.

When you have 100 million Euro and you give it into the ownership of a Foundation, you no langer have that 100 million Euro. It is as simple as that.

There is one known provision for the case the Republic of the Netherlands will be established: the Crown Domains (the vast nature reserves around Het Loo Palace), given to the State on conditions of usufruct for the Sovereign, will be returned to the Orange-Nassaus.

For the properties placed in Foundations this is not necessary as these are 'subservient for the upkeep and maintenance of the dignity and prestige of the bearer of the Crown and/or His House'. When there is no 'Bearer of the Crown' anymore, the Foundations can change this in their statutes into 'the Head of the House of Orange-Nassau'.

For the investment portfolios of the Orange-Nassaus: there is an Act in the Netherlands which says that anyone owning more than 5% in a shareholder-company must be published in a registry. No any research has learned that members of the royal family do own more than 5% in Shell, Philips, KLM, Unilever, Heineken, Akzo Nobel, ABN AMRO Bank, whatever.

It is possible that these portfolios are managed by thirds but then it is very difficult to trace these into the ownership of individual persons. When 100 persons place capital in the hands of an investment bank managing 10% of Shell, what is the exact division in between these 100 persons? Who owns what? It is impossible for Forbes. They are only sticking up a wet finger in the air to see where the wind is blowing and then make a bold statement, which is swallowed by the American public.

 

[Henri M.]

I think the Danish Royal Family owns and must have prospered well with Maersk shares, seeing that Mr. Maersk-McKinney is the only non-royal I know who is a holder of the Order of the Elephant sash, etc.

Don't you think that the State of Denmark c.q. the royal family do show mr Maersk-McKinney their gratitude and reverence for the exceptional merits and contribution he has and had to the Danish economy? The connection between the royal family owing shares in Maersk and his Elephant is totally for your account.

 

[HRHofNothing]

When there is no 'Bearer of the Crown' anymore, the Foundations can change this in their statutes into 'the Head of the House of Orange-Nassau'.


Henri, I agree that the personal wealth of HM Queen Beatrix if correctly calculated is probably closer to the 270 million official figure stated by some people. But I am under the impression that we were discussing the personal wealth of the entire Royal House as opposed to the soverign. These foundations have all the money in them and Beatrix as head of the house of Oranje-Nassau probably is recognized by the foundation as the owner of these assets. She got control of these assets on her accession, not when her parents died in 2004.

On another note, can someone explain to me just where the Greek Royal Family is gettting their money from? Does Constantine ask his daughter in law for an allowance, because they had to leave greece with not much.

 

[Henri M.]

On another note, can someone explain to me just where the Greek Royal Family is gettting their money from? Does Constantine ask his daughter in law for an allowance, because they had to leave greece with not much.

It is most unlikely that Her Danish Majesty, herself known with financial limitations, will be able to provide an allowance to (former) King Constantine of the Hellenes.

Most likely the family does depend on investments which deliver rents and on cash friendly provided by -for an example- the Miller family.

 

[EmpressRouge]

It is most unlikely that Her Danish Majesty, herself known with financial limitations, will be able to provide an allowance to (former) King Constantine of the Hellenes.

Most likely the family does depend on investments which deliver rents and on cash friendly provided by -for an example- the Miller family.

I believe it was mentioned in other threads (or certain magazine articles from arond 1995) that before Pavlos married MC, they supported by donations from rich Greek business men. The donations were dwindling by the 90s so the Pavlos-MC match brought in some financial security from the Millers. Now, these were all rumors, so no one knows if they are10% true. Plus, many memebers of the former Greek royal family (e.g. Pavlos and Nikolaos) support themselves with their careers. Of course the Miller money helps.

 

[politikgirl]

Perceptions of Royal Families re: Grandeur and Wealth

I was wondering which royal families are generally perceived to be the grandest and wealthiest. I'm not talking about actual monetary numbers, but in terms of the reputation for grandeur, pomp & circumstance, profile and status.