royalistbert
Courtier
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2012
- Messages
- 798
- City
- Ipswich
- Country
- United Kingdom
Camilla has been part of of the Royal Family for 8 years now. I think she deserves to be Queen like any other Queen consorts.
At her request, The Queen granted her aunt permission to style herself "HRH Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester". This is entirely within the gift of The Sovereign, just as she never objected to people calling Diana "Princess Diana", even though that was always incorrect.
Will there come a time when Kate is referred to as "Princess Kate" or "Princess Catherine" rather than always as the "Duchess of Cambridge".
I must admit I don't like it when tabloids and newspapers still call her "Kate Middleton". She is the "former" Kate Middleton.
It would take an Act of Parliament to deny her the right to use her husband's styles and titles.
She also can't use a style or title that isn't her husbands at the time she is using it.
We aren't talking about an ordinary person but the wife of the Head of State whose title would be used officially and that needs to be clear.
A wife doesn't have to use her husband's styles or titles but that doesn't mean they don't hold them and doens't mean that in official records they aren't referred to by the styles and titles from their husbands e.g. The Duchess of Kent has asked to be called Katherine but in the CC she is always referred to as HRH The Duchess of Kent. Carole Middleton, when she is with the royal family and wears a name tag she is referred to as Mrs Michael Middleton - because that is her official title.
Camilla can't remain a Princess or Duchess of Cornwall when her husband is no longer a Prince or Duke of Cornwall. She has to take his styles and titles offiially or be formally stripped of those titles by an Act of Parliament - which would make the marriage less than equal. Only then can Charles give her a lower title.
Just curious, but what has Camillas title as wife of the future King got to do with the Succession to the Crown Act? I have read the act and see no mention of titles at all.
The CC refers to her as The Duchess of Cornwall - the oldest of Charles' titles except in Scotland where she is referred to as The Duchess of Rothesay.
Charles it The Prince of Wales, except in Scotland where he is The Prince Charles, The Duke of Rothesay and in Cornwall (or other property that belongs to the Duchy) when he is The Duke of Cornwall.
It would take an Act of Parliament to deny her the right to use her husband's styles and titles.
She also can't use a style or title that isn't her husbands at the time she is using it.
We aren't talking about an ordinary person but the wife of the Head of State whose title would be used officially and that needs to be clear.
A wife doesn't have to use her husband's styles or titles but that doesn't mean they don't hold them and doens't mean that in official records they aren't referred to by the styles and titles from their husbands e.g. The Duchess of Kent has asked to be called Katherine but in the CC she is always referred to as HRH The Duchess of Kent. Carole Middleton, when she is with the royal family and wears a name tag she is referred to as Mrs Michael Middleton - because that is her official title.
So Camilla as Queen Consort could use the female equivalent of another of her husband's titles when he is King officially, without needing any LPs or Acts of Parliament or what have you. As such, this whole Princess Consort issue sounds like it's really just unnecessary fuss. She could be called the Duchess of Lancaster far more easily than Princess Consort.
Queen Victoria set the precedent that the monarch is both Duke and Duchess as she was officially The Duke of Lancaster but used Duchess of Lancaster on occasions.
Will there come a time when Kate is referred to as "Princess Kate" or "Princess Catherine" rather than always as the "Duchess of Cambridge".
I must admit I don't like it when tabloids and newspapers still call her "Kate Middleton". She is the "former" Kate Middleton.
To suggest that Carole Middleton, officially would use any other title than her correct one is also wrong. Mrs Carole Middleton would indicate that she is divorced. That is the legal way of things - a wife takes her husband's names and titles and only uses her own again when she is divorced.
It's actually not that simple at all.
Camilla can't be the Duchess of Lancaster because for one thing, the female form of the title simply doesn't exist. Even the Queen is The Duke - and not Duchess - of Lancaster. The same goes for the Duke of Normandy title. Lord of Mann is reserved for the island's Lord Proprietor only and no female form currently exists anyway.
And what other titles does the Monarch have for his Queen to use?
Will there come a time when Kate is referred to as "Princess Kate" or "Princess Catherine" rather than always as the "Duchess of Cambridge".
I must admit I don't like it when tabloids and newspapers still call her "Kate Middleton". She is the "former" Kate Middleton.
Basically I think with a title like The Princess of Wales, and it happens to be Diana or Camilla or Catherine, like all news folks do, they condense. Easier to type Princess Kate than Catherine who is The Princess of Wales. Just as its easier to put in Camilla Parker-Bowles than The Duchess of Cornwall who is the former Camilla Parker-Bowles. They use short cuts that identify the personage as they have mostly been known in the press.
Why is it that parliament would have to so act? It is not a legal requirement that a married woman use her husband's style and titles, just custom. Why is it different in the case of the king's wife? Isn't it the monarch who makes these decisions about styles and titles, not parliament?
In Charles and Camilla's case, when Charles becomes King, there are no titles of his that he could pass Princess onto Camilla. She is his Queen by law. He could issue Letters Patent that she'd be known as Princess Consort and maybe even make her a Princess in her own right (which to my knowledge hasn't ever been done.. even with Princess Alice) but Parliament would have to approve it as it would then be a morganatiic marriage with the wife ranked lower than her husband.
Great sleuthing, Osipi!
Is it still morganatic if she has a royal title, just not the equal as her husband's? If she has a royal title, even though not Queen, Letters Patent would seem to be enough and parliament would not need to be involved. The succession issue isn't relevant in her case.
I understand what you're saying, and agree, but one thing. Catherine is not currently The Princess of Wales. She is the Duchess of Cambridge and the Princess William of Wales (lowercase t in both cases). The Princess of Wales is Camilla, who is also The Duchess of Cornwall (capital T in both cases).
It's morganatic if she has a title that is not equal to her husband's. It is not morganatic if she has a title that is equal but choses to use instead a title that is lesser.
Currently, she known as a Duchess which is less than her husband's title of Prince of Wales. It is not morganatic, however, because she also has the title of Princess of Wales but choses not to use it.