Prince William Named Prince of Wales


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kalnel said:
It occurred to me today that if Charlotte becomes Princess Royal one day, her name will flow in a pattern of princesses royal:
Mary, daughter of Charles I
Anne, daughter of George II
Charlotte, daughter of William IV
Victoria, daughter of Victoria
Louise, daughter of Edward VII
Mary, daughter of George V
Anne, daughter of Elizabeth II
...next up could be Charlotte

I wonder if George will have a daughter Victoria and a granddaughter Louise to keep the pattern going.
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Question on this title. For Princess Charlote to become styled Princess Royale this will be when William becomes monarch, regardless of her older brother, by then Crown Prince, has children and one of them is a daughter?

Is this is a custom only from Monarch to first female child that is not a Crown princess, right?

I don't recall if when Queen Elizabeth was the Crown Princess the style Princess Royale was applied to her sister Margaret or was Elizabeth the one that had both titles at that time?
 
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Anscadar said:
Question on this title. For Princess Charlote to become styled Princess Royale this will be when William becomes monarch, regardless of her older brother, by then Crown Prince, has children and one of them is a daughter?

Is this is a custom only from Monarch to first female child that is not a Crown princess, right?

I don't recall if when Queen Elizabeth was the Crown Princess the style Princess Royale was applied to her sister Margaret or was Elizabeth the one that had both titles at that time?
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There can only be one Princess Royal at a time and always only the eldest daughter of the monarch.

George VI couldn't create Elizabeth as Princess Royal as his sister outlived him and so she held the title from when she was given it by their father until her death.

Edward VII was able to create his daughter as Princess Royal in his reign because his sister died in 1901 so he gave his daughter the title in 1905. George V then had to wait until his sister, Louise, died before he could give the title to his own daughter. As his sister lived until 1931 he couldn't give the title to his own daughter until he had been king for over 20 years. He created Mary as Princess Royal in 1932. She then held the title until her own death in 1965. George VI reigned from 1936-52 during which time his sister was The Princess Royal.

Princess Anne will hold the title for the rest of her life so if, something awful were to happen and William were to predecease his aunt then Charlotte wouldn't be the daughter of the monarch and so wouldn't be eligible. She can't get the title while Anne is alive and then it is up to William to decide when or even if she will get the title. The late Queen made Anne wait over two decades from when she could have given the title to Anne until she did - from 1965 until 1987.
 
Anscadar said:
Question on this title. For Princess Charlote to become styled Princess Royale this will be when William becomes monarch, regardless of her older brother, by then Crown Prince, has children and one of them is a daughter?

Is this is a custom only from Monarch to first female child that is not a Crown princess, right?

I don't recall if when Queen Elizabeth was the Crown Princess the style Princess Royale was applied to her sister Margaret or was Elizabeth the one that had both titles at that time?
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The UK doesn't have Crown Prince/Princess titles. The heir to the throne is the Prince of Wales. Time will tell if we see an heiress apparent given the title "Princess of Wales."

QEII was never Princess Royal because her aunt Mary was still alive. For William to give it to Charlotte, his aunt would have to pass away, as there can only be one living Princess Royal at a time.
 
Sister Morphine said:
The UK doesn't have Crown Prince/Princess titles. The heir to the throne is the Prince of Wales. Time will tell if we see an heiress apparent given the title "Princess of Wales."

QEII was never Princess Royal because her aunt Mary was still alive. For William to give it to Charlotte, his aunt would have to pass away, as there can only be one living Princess Royal at a time.
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The monarch's eldest son is the Duke of Cornwall.

It is entirely up to the reigning monarch whether their eldest son is also made Prince of Wales although, unless Wales leaves the union or it becomes politically unwise to use the POW title, I think it would be likely that the title continues to be used for the monarch's eldest son.
 
VictoriaB said:
The monarch's eldest son is the Duke of Cornwall.

It is entirely up to the reigning monarch whether their eldest son is also made Prince of Wales although, unless Wales leaves the union or it becomes politically unwise to use the POW title, I think it would be likely that the title continues to be used for the monarch's eldest son.
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The monarch's eldest son is only the Duke of Cornwall if said eldest son is also the heir apparent. That will be the case for the foreseeable future but with the change to the legislation regarding who will inherit the throne it is probable that some time in the future the heir apparent won't be The Duke of Cornwall (although they will have the income) as the heir apparent will be female while an eldest son will be lower in the line of succession.
 
If the heir apparent is female would she be referred to as the heiress presumptive?
 
CyrilVladisla said:
If the heir apparent is female would she be referred to as the heiress presumptive?
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No they are different terms:

an heir apparent can't be replaced in the line of succession so William is Charles heir apparent and George is William's heir apparent

an heir/ess presumptive can be replace in the line of succession so Charlotte is currently George's heiress presumptive as she can be replaced by any legitimate child of George

Due to the male preference rules in place when the late Queen Elizabeth was the heir she was only ever an heiress presumptive as there was always the possibility, however remote, that George VI could have a legitimate son who would replace her. There have been stories for years that when she became the heir she prayed for a younger brother to be King. That situation won't arise now as the first born child will now be the heir apparent regardless of gender.
 
It should probably be mentioned that while royal watchers these days generally utilize the terms in the framework explained by Iluvbertie, there is also a tradition of using them interchangeably to refer to the person who seems to be first in line to the inheritance.
 
Have the press tried to interview Michael and Carole Middleton to get their viewpoint about their son-in-law and daughter receiving the titles of Prince and Princess of Wales?
 
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CyrilVladisla said:
Have the press tried to interview Michael and Carol Middleton to get their viewpoint about their son-in-law and daughter receiving the titles of Prince and Princess of Wales?
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They probably have, but Michael and Carole Middleton have pretty much a 20 year perfect history of being discreet when the press tries to get them to talk about anything.
 
The only interviews Carole has really given are about Party Pieces. Which granted sometimes come off as adverts for that brand but she doesn't get into details about personal feelings. Michael apparently confirmed that Pippa had welcomed a 2nd baby girl but did not provide any other information.

Whenever Pippa or James are interviewed or write columns it's about their own issues even though the reason people are interested is because of Kate.

I think we can assume that they're proud and supportive and have probably been on hand to help their grandchildren cope with so many recent changes. As well has supporting Pippa and James with their new arrival and James and Alizee with their move to the country earlier this year.
 
CyrilVladisla said:
Have the press tried to interview Michael and Carol Middleton to get their viewpoint about their son-in-law and daughter receiving the titles of Prince and Princess of Wales?
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Why should anyone care what they think about it? They're her parents. Naturally, one would assume, they'd be pleased. We don't need to actually hear from them, though.
 
Sister Morphine said:
Why should anyone care what they think about it? They're her parents. Naturally, one would assume, they'd be pleased. We don't need to actually hear from them, though.
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Also possibly concerned? I think every member of the family would have absolutely loved to see Queen Elizabeth II live to be 101 like her mother did. Not only because they loved her and didn’t want to lose her, but because I think the more time the Wales kids got with their parents in the second in line position, the better. I bet they’d have loved nothing more than to get to where Louis was 8 or 9 at least.

I’m glad they have robust family support to help with this huge life transition.
 
The Princess of Wales is referred to as Princess Catherine appeared in a fairytale carriage
 
A lot of people still refer to Diana as 'Princess Diana'. It doesn't mean anything.
 
CyrilVladisla said:
Another video referring to The Princess of Wales as Princess Catherine.
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These videos aren't 'official' sources. They are just by uneducated media people who don't understand the rules.

Anyone who calls Catherine 'Princess Catherine' are saying that something pretty amazing happened in 1981:

1. Charles married Diana, divorced Diana, married Carole Middleton, divorced Carole and remarried Diana all inside 12 months all with the late Queen's permission

2. Andrew or Edward married Carole, again with the Queen's permission

3. Only one of those four weddings was made public.

The 1917 rules are clear:

1. Child of a Sovereign - Catherine isn't
2. Male line grandchild or a Sovereign - Catherine isn't
3. Eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales - Catherine isn't

Just because the media get it wrong doesn't make it right - just shows their lack of education.
 
CyrilVladisla said:
Another video referring to The Princess of Wales as Princess Catherine.
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Again - an incorrect statement.

It matters not how many times it is said in video.

Until King Charles says she is Princess Catherine she isn't. Only the uneducated media and public use that name because the media is too lazy to learn the correct titles and the public simply goes alone with it, even when it has been pointed out that it is incorrect.

Diana would personally correct the media who called her Princess Diana but they still persisted because they were lazy and didn't care for accuracy.
 
So I wonder when or if they are going to publish the notice regarding the Letters Patent for the Prince of Wales creation for William. HM The King made the announcement that he was creating The Prince William, Prince of Wales "today", during The King's first address to the nation on Sept. 9th. We've yet to see a Gazette notice re: the letters patent for Prince of Wales (and presumably Earl of Chester). Have there been any other official statements or press releases about the creation or was the King's oral announcement the only official word?

It seems odd to me. It's been 4 months.
 
There are three ways to create a title:

1. Letters Patent

2. Royal Warrant

3. Monarch's Will

So far Charles has used #3 for William and #2 for Camilla.
 
Charles has more on his plate than creating WIll POW.
 
JR76 said:
Letters patent creating the Prince of Wales have passed the Great Seal of the Realm.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4290979
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Thank you for the scoop!

Well at least it's officially documented and there is nothing irregular (i.e. William is Earl of Chester as well as all the other titles).

I guess my post back on January 12th (or far more likely Marlene Koenig's blog on February 6th) give a gentle nudge to the palace to get going on the paperwork! ;) Of course I'm joking; I'm sure the sheer amount of documentation and paperwork involved in the change of reign must be staggering, on top of the family title issues to be decided for former working Royals. But it is very late compared to the other historical P of W announcements.

Of course, William has been Prince of Wales since The King announced it on Sept. 9 (or even since The King decided it in His own mind) and these Letters Patent are just a public expression of The King's will.

So that loose end is tied up! Now for the Duke of Edinburgh title for The Prince Edward (I predict an announcement on March 10th - two weeks from today); and some clarification re: the Sussexes.
 
Crown Office
In accordance with the direction of HIS MAJESTY THE KING Letters Patent have passed the Great Seal of the Realm, dated the 13th February 2023 for creating His Royal Highness Prince William Arthur Philip Louis, Duke of Cornwall Rothesay and Cambridge, Earl of Carrick and Strathearn, Baron of Renfrew, Baron Carrickfergus, K.G., K.T., Lord of the Isles and Prince and Great Steward of Scotland, PRINCE OF WALES and EARL OF CHESTER:canflag::D
 
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