General Questions About The Ruling Family Of Abu Dhabi 1:

[whitepaper]

khalid will attend the royal wedding of Jordan

Cool. I guessed this right then. Since this was a non diplomatic event, MBZ has sent Khaled.

 

[whitepaper]

I was reading about King Abdullah II of Jordan on this occasion of his sons marriage and got to know about Prince Hamzah. When I saw series Game of Thrones, I thought it's an ancient thing, looks like in the Middle East they still play this. Every Aristocrat/Monarch has controlled his own family to establish his own lineage. Power corrupts best of the men I guess.

 

[feiraguy]

What happened in Jordan was very similar to what happened in Abu Dhabi: a ruler at the end of his life (Hussein/Zayed) instructed his heir (Abdullah/Khalifa) to nominate one of his younger brothers as the new Crown Prince (Hamzah/Mohamed); the difference is that Abdullah II had the power/influence/courage to do what Khalifa bin Zayed could not

 

[Jihan]

What happened in Jordan was very similar to what happened in Abu Dhabi: a ruler at the end of his life (Hussein/Zayed) instructed his heir (Abdullah/Khalifa) to nominate one of his younger brothers as the new Crown Prince (Hamzah/Mohamed);

And why is that? Not that i complaining, just curious about the reason behind it. Since I believe whoever occupy the throne will have his blood. Why not the 2nd son aka sh. Sultan
or sh. Saif the interior minister who seems capable too. Thanks in advance

 

[Puchu]

Hey Jihan/ladyda, seeing you after a long time!!

 

[Jihan]

The country is known all over the world as "Emirates", a name change would be terrible even commercially and touristically; imagine if the country overnight becomes "Kingdoms"

And well, Khalid was named Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi, there is no election for that office, never, , the election is for President

Well, it doesn't have to happen overnight. Idk about anyone but I would love to see a new kingdom in 21st century haha, without blood/coup d'etat of course. The way they only elected people and name heir with their own kin is more suitable for kingdom if you ask me. Anyway what's up people, since when this thread has become so famous ?

 

[Jihan]

Hey Jihan/ladyda, seeing you after a long time!!

Oh hi Puchu, yeah since Ramadhan i guess I want to take a break just 1 or 2 days from being so noisy but it looks like I successfully lengthen my goals, which is quite good haha. Anyway what's up Puchu, long time no see. I missed a lot of interesting news seeing how much this thread evolve.

By the way, I heard that sh. Mansour was appointed as prime minister of UAE along with his father in law? Or does sh. Mo retired? How and why the need to appointed 2 prime minister? I don't think any country has more than 1 prime minister before, am I wrong? Thank u

 

[feiraguy]

And why is that? Not that i complaining, just curious about the reason behind it. Since I believe whoever occupy the throne will have his blood. Why not the 2nd son aka sh. Sultan
or sh. Saif the interior minister who seems capable too. Thanks in advance

It's not just a question of blood, the ruler has to think about the future of the country and the dynasty; I believe that any ruler wants to appoint the most competent and most capable son to lead the country and keep the family together. But it is a difficult equation, choosing the most capable child or the favorite instead of the oldest child can generate unwanted instability.

Today two countries are experiencing a similar situation: Bahrain and Brunei. In both countries, the Monarch has an heir (Salman bin Hamad of Bahrain and Al-Muhtadee Billah of Brunei), but clearly has a favorite son who is being groomed for greater things (Nasser bin Hamad of Bahrain and Abdul Mateen of Brunei), let's see if monarchs will make any effort to bring their favorite sons to the throne. If you want a real-life Game of Thrones, follow these two countries.

 

[whitepaper]

I dont know anything about Brunei, but know little about Bahrain. I thought Nasser was more into sports than politics. He is building his public image with Instagram and all. Its interesting to watch out Bahrain then.

Did you see that MBZ pulled UAE out of US led maritime coalition? He is making it more evident of his unhappiness with US. Leaning towards US or China is not a good thing, both cannot be trusted. They pursue their own agendas. Am interested to see what MBZ does next.

And why cudnt Khalifa establish his own dynasty ? If he had had full brothers or more support, could he have done it ? And if he hadn't had health issues, could he have done it ? Or could it be that Bani Fatima became strong that he could not have done it even if he wanted to ? But he was President, he could have done anything he wanted to right ? Or it was mere respect for his father's word ?

 

[feiraguy]

Nasser is National Security Advisor, Commander of the Royal Guard, Secretary General of the Supreme National Defence Council, in addition to having some positions related to oil and gas...

At the time Mohamed bin Zayed was named heir, a US diplomat reported that Khalifa had "neither will nor power" to challenge his younger brother.
Bani Fatima was everywhere (defence, intelligence, foreign relations, investments, media...); Khalifa had no full siblings, and whatever alliances he forged through marriages were neutralized by Bani Fatima's strategic marriages, he was alone.

 

[whitepaper]

Ok, I never looked up Nasser.

So who made Bani Fatima that strong ? Fatima or MBZ or a team effort ? Who is the real mastermind? Even the president himself, supreme power could not control them. Khalifa as a president could have changed everything after Zayed's demise, right ? In 2004 Zayed passed away and 2014 he fell fully sick. Between these years, he could have done so much. May be he lacked will too.

 

[Purplerain]

Hassa’s (Khalifa’s mother) was an only child too and had several half siblings through her father. Some of her half siblings offspring were married to Bani Fatima if you look at the family tree of Hassa’s father Mohammed.
Her half bro Hamadan’s daughters married to MBZ and Hamdan and their half brothers.
Her half brother Suroor married Shamma MBZ full sister.
So it makes sense Khalifa was kind of isolated.
But at least he had the support of Al Nayhans in general as he was “full” Al Nayhan.
Moreover, it was said in wiki leaks that Khalifa’s son Sultan was a bit corrupt and his other son Mohammed was quiet/not in the limelight as much.

 

[Purplerain]

But Sheikha Fatima must be really clever because I would have thought Hessa would have more influence.
Maybe it’s a difference of personalities.
Because if you really think about it, Fatima was married off between age 15-18 to a man 20-25 years older than her with more life experience and she managed to influence him.I also think Fatima’s brother was a big help too as I read he often travelled with her.

But maybe it’s just as simple as Mohammed was the next in line and the better choice as ruler as both Sultan bin Zayed and Sultan bin Khalifa were deemed not to be.

 

[feiraguy]

"who made Bani Fatima that strong "

1. Fatima (competent at influencing Sheikh Zayed and keeping the family together around common goals). Mohamed (born leader and his father's favorite son)

2. Competence

3. Numerosity

4. Different specialties (Mohamed in defense, Hamdan in Foreign Affairs, Hazza in intelligence, Mansour and Tahnoun in investments and finance, Abdullah in media and culture)

5. Unity and mutual support

6. Strategic marriages

 

[feiraguy]

Ok, I never looked up Nasser.

Abu Dhabi and Oman will have two or three quiet decades in terms of succession, Saudi Arabia and Qatar should follow a patrilineal succession model

Unless some prince has some crazy plan against bin Salman after the King's death, I would say that Bahrain is the country most likely to have a succession crisis*, Nasser has been sharing the spotlight with the heir for some time

*And Kuwait, succession in Kuwait is always unpredictable

 

[whitepaper]

Thanks so much for the info Purplerain and Feiraguy.

I heard this name Mohamed in this thread couple of times, but thought he must be father of Tahnoun, Saif and Suroor. Didn't know that Khalifa's mother is their half sister. That's how the support for Khalifa is neutralized with Bani Fatima's strategic marriages. Amazing, whoever this Fatima is, she is amazing the way she influenced her husband and elevated her sons over Zayed's other sons. No wife of Zayed could pull off such stunt.

Feiraguy - don't you think only a fool would go against MBS knowing the kind of person he is and his history. MBS would always keep an eye on every potential aspirer to the throne.

I know Nasser only as guy who married one of MRMs daughter. He accompanies his father most of the times, so seen him that way only. Interesting to see the conflict should that arise in future.

And Qatar is cool right ? Father willingly making son the ruler and enjoying the retired life. And I think his first son renounced the title and so it went to Tamim. Or anything else ?

 

[Serenei]

Was Saif bin Mohammed’s family listed on here? Can’t find it. Do you guys have a list of all of his children?

 

[feiraguy]

MBS will attend the royal wedding, I think ABU Dhabi will send Khalid or Mansour

That information was wrong, right? This wedding was celebrated as a great opportunity for an alliance between Saudi Arabia and Jordan, but what caught my attention was the absence of Saudis at the ceremony.

Was Saif bin Mohammed’s family listed on here? Can’t find it. Do you guys have a list of all of his children?

With his first wife (an Al Otaiba)

Ahmed bin Saif (unmarried or married with a non-Al Nahyan)
Saeed bin Saif (married to the daughter of Ahmed bin Mubarak bin Mohamed and Moza bint Hamdan bin Mohamed)
Khalifa bin Saif (married to the daughter of Khalifa bin Zayed)
Dhiyab bin Saif (married to the daughter of Nahyan bin Mubarak)
Mohamed bin Saif (married to a non-Al Nahyan)
Nahyan bin Saif (married to the daughter of Mohamed bin Zayed)
Shaikha bint Saif (married to Sultan bin Khalifa bin Zayed)
Alyazia bint Saif (married to Abdullah bin Zayed)

With his second wife (daughter of Sheikh Zayed, sister of Saif, Ahmed, Hamed, Omar and Khalid bin Zayed)

Zayed bin Saif (unmarried)
another daughter married to Hazza bin Sultan bin Zayed

 

[feiraguy]

Thanks so much for the info Purplerain and Feiraguy.

I heard this name Mohamed in this thread couple of times, but thought he must be father of Tahnoun, Saif and Suroor. Didn't know that Khalifa's mother is their half sister. That's how the support for Khalifa is neutralized with Bani Fatima's strategic marriages. Amazing, whoever this Fatima is, she is amazing the way she influenced her husband and elevated her sons over Zayed's other sons. No wife of Zayed could pull off such stunt.

Feiraguy - don't you think only a fool would go against MBS knowing the kind of person he is and his history. MBS would always keep an eye on every potential aspirer to the throne.

I know Nasser only as guy who married one of MRMs daughter. He accompanies his father most of the times, so seen him that way only. Interesting to see the conflict should that arise in future.

And Qatar is cool right ? Father willingly making son the ruler and enjoying the retired life. And I think his first son renounced the title and so it went to Tamim. Or anything else ?

Qatar is cool, if the Emir knows how to manage the vanities of his brothers, and his own children (who are from three different wives), Qatar will have many decades of stability
The eldest son Mishaal was heir for a time but lost the position (there is no concrete explanation), the second, Fahd, was skipped, the third, Jassim was heir but resigned, and the fourth, Tamim, succeeded his father.
He was smart; Apparently he still has influence in the government, but now he no longer has the pressure of day to day government affairs, while also giving his son authority to become the head of state and government.

And yes, bin Salman has no opponents inside the country

About Nasser, I really believe that there will be some instability in Bahrain in the coming years; we will see how Dubai and Abu Dhabi will behave

 

[Purplerain]

Do you think that’s why he married MRM’s daughter?
Apparently reports said he REALLY wanted to marry her as soon as possible.
Btw I think Nasser just likes the spotlight more and his older brother is more quiet like how Maktoum is more focused on work and Hamdan is in the spotlight in Dubai.
Plus Nassers brother is full Al Khalifa and has no controversy like Nasser has with the torturing of Bahrani protesters.

 

[Purplerain]

Feiraguy do you know how old Sheikha bint saif is?

 

[Puchu]

Moza_saif from which wife? Any idea?

 

[whitepaper]

So Saif bin Zayed has two sisters, one married Tahnoun bin Mohamed and another married Saif bin Mohamed?
I recently saw Sain bin Zayed's son who was no more than 4-5 years of age. Are his other kids older or younger than this kid ?

I noticed that when mentioning cousin relations, they mention like first cousins once removed, second cousins once removed..what does "once removed" mean ?

 

[Puchu]

Saif bin Zayed's youngest child is Mohammed, born in 2019. His eldest child is his only daughter named Moza, born within 2003-2005.

Cousin once removed means cousin's child/ parent's cousin. For example, Sultan bin Khalifa is Fatima bint Tahnoun's cousin and Mohammed bin Sultan bin Khalifa is Fatima's half-first cousin's son. Mohammed is addressed as Fatima's first cousin once removed.

 

[Puchu]

Do you think that’s why he married MRM’s daughter?
Apparently reports said he REALLY wanted to marry her as soon as possible.

Both Nasser and his full brother Khaled had political marriages. Nasser married UAE PM's daughter and Khaled married then Saudi King's daughter. Their mother is from a reputed family of Kuwait and I think these marriages benefited their father. Its said that Bahrain follows Saudi in terms of politics and they made alignment through this union, though that marriage didn't work. Sahab accompanied king hamad's al khalifa wife in public events.
They were engaged for a long time and they found that time suitable for marriage.

 

[whitepaper]

Thanks Puchu for explaining this once removed cousins with example. It makes more sense to me now.

MRMs daughter was not even 18 when she got married to Nasser is what I read. Do you mean to say they were long engaged before that also ?

Al Nahyans marry within the family. And some like MRMs kids and Bahrainis marry outside country also to forge alliances. This is quite the contrast right ? Does MRM made strategic marriages for his children or just random marriages ?

And both Salman bin Hamad and Nasser bin Hamad attended Jordanian wedding, I think one would have been fine like how Khaled attended the wedding solo.

 

[whitepaper]

Was reading abt Qatar and looks like Tamim's father Hamad overthrowed his own father to become the ruler. Step ahead of their neighbours I guess. Did Tamim's mother Moza played any role in his ascension, like being favourite wife to his father etc...she is a style icon in her own way.

 

[feiraguy]

Feiraguy do you know how old Sheikha bint saif is?

Between 1966 and 1970, I don't know the exact year

Moza_saif from which wife? Any idea?

No idea, any chance of her being Moza's granddaughter and being Hazza bin Sultan's wife?

Do you think that’s why he married MRM’s daughter?
Apparently reports said he REALLY wanted to marry her as soon as possible.
Btw I think Nasser just likes the spotlight more and his older brother is more quiet like how Maktoum is more focused on work and Hamdan is in the spotlight in Dubai.
Plus Nassers brother is full Al Khalifa and has no controversy like Nasser has with the torturing of Bahrani protesters.

There is a basic difference between Hamdan and Nasser, they really like the spotlight, but in Hamdan's case his competence and his interest in politics are quite questionable, but Nasser is involved in various strategic issues of defense, intelligence and energy

As Puchu said, the brothers' marriages were strategically chosen, one to the daughter of the Emir of Dubai and the other to the daughter of Saudi King Abdullah. I do not doubt that there was romantic interest/love between Nasser and Sheikha, but have no doubt that politics influenced

Nasser seems to be REALLY ambitious and I have no doubt that the possibility of becoming the heir has crossed his mind; the question is: does he expect any support from the UAE?

 

[feiraguy]

I noticed that when mentioning cousin relations, they mention like first cousins once removed, second cousins once removed..what does "once removed" mean ?

If my grandparents are your grandparents, we are first cousins. If my grandparents are your great-grandparents, we are first cousins ​​once removed; If my grandparents are your great-great-grandparents, we are first cousins ​​twice removed; If my grandparents are your great-great-great-grandparents, we are first cousins ​​removed three times...

If my great-grandparents are your great-grandparents, we're second cousins.
If my great-grandparents are your great-great-grandparents, we're second cousins ​​once removed...

Al Nahyans marry within the family. And some like MRMs kids and Bahrainis marry outside country also to forge alliances. This is quite the contrast right ? Does MRM made strategic marriages for his children or just random marriages ?

the smaller the country, the greater the need to forge alliances through intermarriage with other monarchies

 

[Puchu]

No idea, any chance of her being Moza's granddaughter and being Hazza bin Sultan's wife?

Aysha bint Saif is Hazza bin Sultan bin Zayed's wife and I am thinking the same if she is from Bani Moza. Again, Moza is a common name and may be she was born before saif's wedding to Afra bint Zayed. Cannot came into conclusion.