Future Titles and Dukedoms for the Wales Children

[PhillyMonarchist]

Why not bring back Duke(ess) of Windsor

 

[PhillyMonarchist]

Totally agree.

I would limit the HRH to the heir apparent and spouse in each generation only and so remove it from ALL younger siblings and spouses.

That would then make it easier for the younger siblings to actually live a normal life with a job and no expectation of being a working royal.

werent their articles a while back that Charles III intend to allow Charlotte a title?

 

[principessa]

My suggestions:
George: at the time of his wedding: The Duke of Albany, when William is King: The Prince of Wales
Charlotte: The Princess Royal
Louis: The Duke of Clarence

 

[FigTree]

werent their articles a while back that Charles III intend to allow Charlotte a title?

I don’t think it will be his call. Her fathers maybe unless she got one on her 18th? Which again would be modernising. Why wait for marriage? What if they don’t marry? I get it was to ensure no awkward style titles for brides. But they need a o step into the light.

 

[FigTree]

My suggestions:
George: at the time of his wedding: The Duke of Albany, when William is King: The Prince of Wales
Charlotte: The Princess Royal
Louis: The Duke of Clarence

I think Clarence is out and the discussion is that Charlotte should be the same as her brother. As P Madeleine is hers.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I don’t think it will be his call. Her fathers maybe unless she got one on her 18th? Which again would be modernising. Why wait for marriage? What if they don’t marry?

Queen Elizabeth II was the only monarch who waited until princes' wedding days to confer dukedoms on them.
All previous monarchs bestowed them while the princes were still unmarried.

werent their articles a while back that Charles III intend to allow Charlotte a title?

Charlotte already has the title of HRH Princess.

Are you referring to this? https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...r-the-wales-children-50443-2.html#post2568534

 

[FigTree]

Queen Elizabeth II was the only monarch who waited until princes' wedding days to confer dukedoms on them.
All previous monarchs bestowed them while the princes were still unmarried.



Charlotte already has the title of HRH Princess.

Are you referring to this? https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...r-the-wales-children-50443-2.html#post2568534

Well then revert.

 

[Mbruno]

I think Clarence is out and the discussion is that Charlotte should be the same as her brother. As P Madeleine is hers.

Princess Royal is already a higher title in my opinion than being a duchess, so I don't see the need to create a peerage for Charlotte.

If Prince Edward's precedent as Duke of Edinburgh sticks though, I see Louis and future younger sons, maybe also younger daughters of British monarchs getting life peerages only. That will prevent future non-royal ducal houses (like the next generations of Gloucesters and Kents) who are offsprings of the main royal family.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Princess Royal is already a higher title in my opinion than being a duchess, so I don't see the need to create a peerage for Charlotte.

From a traditional point of view, a peerage is a higher title because it entitles the holder to legal privileges (the primary one these days being the right to stand for election to the hereditary-peer seats in the House of Lords) while Princess Royal is an empty title. In addition, peerages are traditionally hereditary while Princess Royal is only a lifetime title.

That said, since senior royals are not going to stand for election anytime soon, I agree that for practical purposes Princess Royal is no longer an inferior title compared to a non-hereditary peerage. But given the longetivity of Elizabeth II and Philip, it's very possible that the Princess Royal title won't become available again until Charlotte is 30 or so. And it remains to be seen if future peerages for princes are hereditary or not.

 

[Mbruno]

From a traditional point of view, a peerage is a higher title because it entitles the holder to legal privileges (the primary one these days being the right to stand for election to the hereditary-peer seats in the House of Lords) while Princess Royal is an empty title. In addition, peerages are traditionally hereditary while Princess Royal is only a lifetime title.

From that point of view, life baron or baroness would be now a higher title than duke or a duchess since dukes and duchesses now have, as you said, to stand for election to the House of Lords while all life barons and baronesses are guaranteed automatic membership.

In any case, if, as the polls now indicate, the Labour Party wins the next UK general election with a huge majority in the House of Commons, I expect Sir Keir Starmer's to make good on his pledge and íntroduce legislation to replace the House of Lords with a Senate (or equivalent) representing the regions of the UK, so most of the legal privileges of the peerage will be gone, other than the right to use and be referred to by the title and a place in the order of precedence.

 

[PhillyMonarchist]

What about Duke of Windsor?

 

[Prinsara]

What about Duke of Windsor?

Was created for a scandal and still associated with a major embarrassment. It wouldn't be considered a compliment to give it to anyone, male or female.

It's questioned if Duke of York will be recreated any time soon post-Andrew, and that's a title with loads of historical significance. Windsor's historical significance is limited and purely negative.

 

[Somebody]

Given that Edward's ducal title was made a life peerage, the only consistent decision would be for any future royal ducal titles to also be life peerages. Edward's children already stand out in being the first and so-far only male-line grandchildren of the monarch not being treated as royal highnesses and prince(ss), so if he were to also be the only one receive a ducal life-peerage, they would even more shorthanded than they already are; instead of being at least partly the 'trailblazers' for the new generation in how the royal family goes about royal titles and peerages.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

If ducal titles is still a thing by then i would guess

George : Duke of Clarence if he marries under his grandfather’s reign… If he marries under his fathers reign, he will most likely already be Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay etc and won’t need any new titles..

Charlotte : Either no ducal title or a new ducal title created just for her, to signify the first ever Princess-Duchess in her own right... Maybe Duchess of Buckingham (there have been non-royal Dukes of Buckingham before)… Created Princess Royal when her father is on the throne and an appropriate time has passed since great aunt Anne’s death…

Louis : Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich (Prince Philips junior titles) if he marries while great uncle Edward is still alive… Created Duke of Edinburgh after Edwards death

There is ofcourse also the possibility that William decides to put a stop to ducal titles, except those for the Heir to the throne…

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

I like the dukedoms of Ross and Exeter. Wouldn't mind a revival of those.

 

[Mbruno]

Given that Edward's ducal title was made a life peerage, the only consistent decision would be for any future royal ducal titles to also be life peerages. Edward's children already stand out in being the first and so-far only male-line grandchildren of the monarch not being treated as royal highnesses and prince(ss), so if he were to also be the only one receive a ducal life-peerage, they would even more shorthanded than they already are; instead of being at least partly the 'trailblazers' for the new generation in how the royal family goes about royal titles and peerages.

James and Louise's precedent was not applied, however, to Archie and Lilibet, who are in the same situation (grandchildren in paternal line of a sovereign). By the same logic, Edward's precedent of being granted a life dukedom will not necessarily extend to Louis or Charlotte (if Charlotte also gets a peerage, which I find highly unlikely).

 

[Granada]

I honestly can't see Princess Charlotte loaded down with Titles in this day and age. HRH Princess Charlotte, The Princess Royal, AND DUCHESS of something ?

And that's now, not 25 years in the future. Many Monarchy's are scaling back Titles. Look at Denmark and Prince Edward, Duke of Edinburgh, his Title reverts back to The Crown at his death.

The time honoured and very prestigious Princess Royal Title will be Charlotte's, in due course. Princess Anne is 73. Princess Charlotte is only 8.

I think William will be very modernizing with discretion about Titles and passing them down. All The Monarchies will have to in this day and age.
Its a fine line to tread too.

As People are starting to ask why in Aristocratic - Noble Households ONLY the eldest son ( born in wedlock) inherits, not the eldest child. Regardless of sex.

For that reason, and others, I can't see Princess Charlotte being granted a Duchy Title in her own name too.

 

[FigTree]

James and Louise's precedent was not applied, however, to Archie and Lilibet, who are in the same situation (grandchildren in paternal line of a sovereign). By the same logic, Edward's precedent of being granted a life dukedom will not necessarily extend to Louis or Charlotte (if Charlotte also gets a peerage, which I find highly unlikely).

I think they intended for it to be Harry's children too but given the 'schism' in relationships they probably thought best not to poke the bear.

 

[Somebody]

James and Louise's precedent was not applied, however, to Archie and Lilibet, who are in the same situation (grandchildren in paternal line of a sovereign). By the same logic, Edward's precedent of being granted a life dukedom will not necessarily extend to Louis or Charlotte (if Charlotte also gets a peerage, which I find highly unlikely).

Exactly, that's why I am hoping that this doesn't happen again. It is very unfair to Edward and Sophie that it already happened once (instead of their family being the first in which new 'rules' were applied' -which would have been fine with me- they ended up being the odd ones out), I truly hope that it won't happen again.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

It is ofcourse entirely possible that when Charlotte and Louis marries - ducal titles will be regarded as a thing of the past and that their official titles will simply be

H.R.H. The Princess Charlotte, Mrs XX

and

H.R.H. The Prince Louis

It would be in line with how it is in Norway, Denmark and Belgium for example

It’s also impossible to know how big the United Kingdom is in 20 + years (or if the monarchy is here at all)…. Have Scotland left, it would be tonedeaf to create anyone Duke of Edinburgh….. And have Wales left, the title of the heir apparent will Most likely be Duke of Cornwall…

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I honestly can't see Princess Charlotte loaded down with Titles in this day and age. HRH Princess Charlotte, The Princess Royal, AND DUCHESS of something ?

Most people in this day and age would consider Princess to be a higher title than Duchess, so scaling down Charlotte's title would require her to be stripped of her Princess title.

And that's now, not 25 years in the future. Many Monarchy's are scaling back Titles. Look at Denmark and Prince Edward Duke of Edinburgh, his Title reverts back to The Crown at his death.

We'll see what happens in 25 years, but for now, no European monarchies except for Norway have scaled back the titles of monarchs' and crown princes' children. Edward remains a Prince (and Duke), as do the children of Denmark's Queen and Crown Prince. Even Norway only removed the HRH from monarchs' non-heir children, not the Princess title.

As People are starting to ask why in Aristocratic - Noble Households ONLY the eldest son ( born in wedlock) inherits, not the eldest child. Regardless of sex.

For that reason, and others, I can't see Princess Charlotte being granted a Duchy Title in her own name too.

The people who ask why only the oldest (born in wedlock) son inherits noble titles instead of the oldest child are the same people who will ask why Louis receives a dukedom and Charlotte does not.

It is ofcourse entirely possible that when Charlotte and Louis marries - ducal titles will be regarded as a thing of the past and that their official titles will simply be

H.R.H. The Princess Charlotte, Mrs XX

and

H.R.H. The Prince Louis

It would be in line with how it is in Norway, Denmark and Belgium for example

None of those countries use "The" or "Mrs XX" in their official royal titles in their native language, with the exception of Princess Astrid in Norway having "fru Ferner" attached to her title (which was not repeated in the next generation with her niece).

I think they intended for it to be Harry's children too but given the 'schism' in relationships they probably thought best not to poke the bear.

If what you say is true (which I think is likely for King Charles III though not Queen Elizabeth II), then Charlotte and Louis should be given the same option to have their children styled as Princess and Prince - it would be very unfair to penalize (children of) members of the family for not making public accusations against their parents(-in-law).

 

[doro]

Why not bring back the Dukedom of Connaught?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Why not bring back the Dukedom of Connaught?

Connaught is located in the present-day republic of Ireland and the consensus seems to be that it would be seen as a political insult against the republic of Ireland to use it for a British royal title.

 

[Minister of Court]

Why not bring back the Dukedom of Connaught?

Connaught is in Ireland.

 

[PhillyMonarchist]

Was created for a scandal and still associated with a major embarrassment. It wouldn't be considered a compliment to give it to anyone, male or female.

It's questioned if Duke of York will be recreated any time soon post-Andrew, and that's a title with loads of historical significance. Windsor's historical significance is limited and purely negative.

And enough time had to have passed by the time the wales kids get marriage

 

[doro]

Connaught is in Ireland.

But it would used in Northern Ireland

 

[Countessmeout]

But it would used in Northern Ireland

No it wouldn't be. Its a province of the Republic of Ireland.

Giving a title that belongs to a country they don't rule would not be proper. An Irish title would be taken from Northern Ireland.

Be as logical as trying to name them Duke of Vermont.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

But it would used in Northern Ireland

But the province of Connacht is not located in Northern Ireland but in the Republic of Ireland.

 

[Biri]

No it wouldn't be. Its a province of the Republic of Ireland.

Giving a title that belongs to a country they don't rule would not be proper. An Irish title would be taken from Northern Ireland.

Be as logical as trying to name them Duke of Vermont.

And Vermont is one of the US states

 

[Countessmeout]

And Vermont is one of the US states

Exactly my point. Connaught and Vermont are states/provinces of foreign countries. Not an available title.