10 years on the throne for King Willem-Alexander of The Netherlands

[Marengo]

You are mistaken. The people with a background in Morocco -by far the largest group of Arab immigrants is from there- is simular to the number from Suriname. The total percentage with people with an Asian or African background is 8,5% - and this includes people from our former colonies in the Dutch East Indies, which makes up for the largest group of immigrants. Like the people from Suriname and the Antilles this group traditionally tends to be supportive of the monarchy.

The third largest group of immigrants -after to those from the former Dutch East Indies and Turkey- in The Netherlands is from Germany [386.000 people]. I have no idea how they feel about the monarchy

CBS yesterday published a report on the amount of children. Women with a migrant background get on average 1,566 children, which is lower than the average among women with a Dutch background, which is 1,660.

https://opendata.cbs.nl/statline/?dl=274BB#/CBS/nl/dataset/83307NED/table

Even IF all your assumptions were true -and they are not- the total amount of these -supposedly all republican- migrants in the country is too small to account for the numbers that we are seeing at present.

It is time to end this avenue of discussion. This is not the right topic or even the right forum to be discussing migration. You can rest assured that the decline in popularity can not be caused by this factor.

 

[tommy100]

Going back to the "folky" RF. I think its interesting Marengo noting the same paper / editor that once criticised Beatrix for not being down to earth is now worrying about WA being too down to earth. I think that is actually quite common in so much as in the short term people quite like the idea of the RF being "just like us" - and it makes good headlines and thus sells newspapers. But realistically, if a RF becomes "just like us" you remove the mystique and royalty from around the person who is sovereign and people start to wonder, well why them and not me or someone else?

It is a very fine balance between the two - not seeming too aloof and out of touch yet not seeming just "like the bloke next door". I wonder if maybe the Dutch aren't helped with this due to the (as I understand it) quite strict rules about photographing them outside of their royal duties. I mean we see other royals dropping the children off at school, out shopping etc so it helps reinforce the idea they are "normal" whereas if the Dutch don't have that (I'm not an expert in whether such things appear in the media) it becomes harder to seem normal so perhaps they go into overdrive to make up for it in what they say to interviewers.

I remember distinctly an interview the Princess Royal, Princess Anne did for one of her big 0 birthdays with John Inverdale, a sports broadcaster, he asked her at one point how she relaxed. Does she kick off her shoes and sit in front of the TV with a pizza (or something along those lines) and she pointedly remarked he was crossing the line, even though it was said quite jovially by the Princess it is telling she didn't see the need to be seen as "normal" by the wider public. She does a job and would like to be judged on that not what she does at home.

I think it is telling that Beatrix and her generation of royals, didn't see the need to appear too normal, after all if monarchy is about ordinary people what is special about it. They had mastered the art of saying something without really saying anything meaning when they did say something of substance, express an opinion etc carried much more weight. Personally I wish a lot of royals looked at the older generation as a bit more of an example of how to be. Yes we want royals who understand the issues everyday ordinary people face and who don't act like Marie Antoinette but I don't need to really picture the Dutch king in his jogging pants next time he is making the speech from the throne or representing his country on a state visit thank you.

 

[Adda]

If migrants or anyone else don't take the time to educate themselves about the House of Orange-Nassau, and just flat out labeled it as unfamiliar, privileged, and white (what a sin!) Then that's their problem, not the monarchy's.


I'm a staunch monarchist, but I don't think we will have constitutional monarchies in 50 years time, Liechtenstein and Monaco being the exception because of ~reasons~. I understand Royals have to be more "approachable" and W-A and Máxima certainly are, but the line should be drawn somewhere. Royals should be, first and foremost, a walking standard of Dignity and Decorum. Unfortunately, the world has gone mad and those qualities are looked down upon. Enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[Marengo]

An article by -the IMO rediculous- Daniela Hooghiemstra in the posh NRC Handelsblad, reflecting on 10 years of Willem-Alexander. Although the article is written with her usual -and ill warranted- dedain & act, which boils down to how she finds herself far posher than the royal family. She does have some points that start to look familiar.

Like the Volkskrant she also looks with nostalgia to Beatrix, forgetting her own criticism which already started 25 years ago. She observes that the wall between commerce and the royal court has been taken down -not completely correct as the princes all started to have normal jobs during the reign of Beatrix. As examples she points to the consultancy firm Number Five of Laurentien & Constantijn, the 'Gravinfluencer' Eloise and the participation of the king in the podcast. A podcast that is produced by the company Tonny Media. Sidenote: she and the co-owner of Tonny media - Sander Schimmelpenninck - can not stand each other.

She thinks that the King had degraded himself in selling himself to the public. She points out -which we have read in various publications by now- that the more 'normal' King and Queen become the louder the question will be why they are king and queen at all.

In short another plea for a more distant monarchy to add to the pile. Food for though at the palace one would think.

https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2023/04/2...social&utm_source=twitter&utm_term=in-sidebar

She refers to a -far more interesting- article of this weekend in the same newspaper (NRC) which mentions the dazzling list of public visits of the King. The article was written by Titia Ketelaar and reflects on the 10 years of the King. She observes that a visit of the King often can only count on a mention in a local newspaper. While his mother did a lot of official visits the king prefers more informal 'working' visits. The smaller the visit the more interesting he seems to find it, as there will be more opportunities to talk with people, less with officials and there can be more focus on 'content'.

These visits stay under the radar. To avoid too much hullaboo they are often announced only 45 minutes before the visits. In zoom calls the participation of the king will only be known to a few participants. As a result a majority of people indicate in questionaires that they have no clue what the King and Queen actually do. Another minus: these working visits tend not to be overly photogenic: the King sitting around a table with a few people, and they will not get published in the press.

Ms Ketelaar refers to the supposed quote of Queen Elizabeth II: 'I need to be seen to be believed'.

https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2023/04/21/de-koning-als-niemand-bijna-kijkt-a4162609

 

[Muhler]

Does she have a point?

Are King WA and Queen M on the verge of being too folksy? And/or there being too little pomp and circumstances?
Has the royal roadshow become too ordinary, so to speak?

I ask of course because I have little clue about the public opinion in the Netherlands on these questions.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Does she have a point?

Are King WA and Queen M on the verge of being too folksy? And/or there being too little pomp and circumstances?
Has the royal roadshow become too ordinary, so to speak?

I ask of course because I have little clue about the public opinion in the Netherlands on these questions.

I think the people see Willem-Alexander and Máxima as far, far more approachable and "more normal" as Beatrix. At the same time, this lack of distance to the monarchy is damaging for the institution. That was the core point of Daniela Hooghiemstra, indeed a nostalgia longing to an era in which the Court still was a bastion of blue blood, far away from "the street" and nevertheless always more popular with the have-nots ("the Orange gepeupel") than with the haves, remarkably enough.

But it is very, very difficult. This week we saw almost identical support for a hereditary monarchy or for a republican form of state in the UK and in the Netherlands. Totally different monarchies, the same outcome. That is why I do not think a more distant and high-brow Court à la Beatrix would result in more support for the idea of a hereditary monarchy.

I do agree that Beatrix automatically is seen as a "Majesty". By enemy and by friend. Willem-Alexander is everything but a King. Also because of his more jet set life, which is not really fair because also Wilhelmina, Juliana and Beatrix had yachts, luxury homes in other countries, there were Ferraris at the Court but that was before Instagram, Facebook, TikTok and the 24/24 visibility.

 

[Muhler]

I think the people see Willem-Alexander and Máxima as far, far more approachable and "more normal" as Beatrix. At the same time, this lack of distance to the monarchy is damaging for the institution. That was the core point of Daniela Hooghiemstra, indeed a nostalgia longing to an era in which the Court still was a bastion of blue blood, far away from "the street" and nevertheless always more popular with the have-nots ("the Orange gepeupel") than with the haves, remarkably enough.

But it is very, very difficult. This week we saw almost identical support for a hereditary monarchy or for a republican form of state in the UK and in the Netherlands. Totally different monarchies, the same outcome. That is why I do not think a more distant and high-brow Court à la Beatrix would result in more support for the idea of a hereditary monarchy.

I do agree that Beatrix automatically is seen as a "Majesty". By enemy and by friend. Willem-Alexander is everything but a King. Also because of his more jet set life, which is not really fair because also Wilhelmina, Juliana and Beatrix had yachts, luxury homes in other countries, there were Ferraris at the Court but that was before Instagram, Facebook, TikTok and the 24/24 visibility.

That sentence struck me.

How come he is not seen as "kingly"? After all he has had ten years to prove himself, weed out mistakes and put his mark on things. And people have had the same ten years to get used to this new style and approach.
Is Amalia perhaps seen as more regal in comparison now that people are beginning to get to know her for real?

 

[An Ard Ri]

Is there much Dutch nostalgia towards Queen Beatrix,personally I'd have preferred if the queen had waited a few more years to abdicate as her grandkids were all still relatively young.
I understand her personal reasons for abdicating .Even post abdication the former Monarch to me never lost her majestic bearing.

 

[Adda]

Is there much Dutch nostalgia towards Queen Beatrix,personally I'd have preferred if the queen had waited a few more years to abdicate as her grandkids were all still relatively young.
I understand her personal reasons for abdicating .Even post abdication the former Monarch to me never lost her majestic bearing.

Idem. I think that, had not been for the death of Prince Friso, she would have taken a bit longer to abdicate.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Idem. I think that, had not been for the death of Prince Friso, she would have taken a bit longer to abdicate.

That's what I would have assumed too,but one could not imagine the personal grief that the queen experienced prior to the announcement and still carried on with such regal dignity.

 

[Adda]

That's what I would have assumed too,but one could not imagine the personal grief that the queen experienced prior to the announcement and still carried on with such regal dignity.

I can very well imagine, in this cases you mourn before the person finally passes. Once her boy was gone, she probably didn't want to/couldn't continue, and wanted a change in her life. I feel for her, she's a remarkable woman.

 

[An Ard Ri]

I can very well imagine, in this cases you mourn before the person finally passes. Once her boy was gone, she probably didn't want to/couldn't continue, and wanted a change in her life. I feel for her, she's a remarkable woman.

I wholeheartedly agree with these sentiments,makes me admire Beatrix even more!

 

[Marengo]

I agree, she is a remarkable woman. But Beatrix explicitly mentioned that she abdicated because she thought it was time for a new generation to take over. Not because of reasons of health or within the personal sphere. The abdication worked well: the Kings first years were very well regarded. Only recently things started to take a dive.

We do not know how Beatrix would have feared in this day and age; within the context of a 24/7 news cycle, extreme political polarisation and a plummeting of trust in all public authority. We don't know and we will never know. If she had postponed her abdication much longer the position of the crown prince would be undermined and a can of worms would be opened. His grandmother and great-grandmother both abdicated when the heirs were around 40 y/o, why would Beatrix have WA wait much longer?

 

[iceflower]

Today, April 26, the special anniversary lunch (see here) was hosted by King Willem-Alexander and Queen Máxima at Huis ten Bosch Palace. Princess Beatrix attended as well.


** ppe gallery ** robinutrecht.photoshelter gallery **


** gettyimages: NLD: King Willem-Alexander Hosts A Lunch For his 10th Reigning Jubilee **


The Palace released the speech King Willem-Alexander has held:


** koninklijkhuis.nl speech ** translation **

 

[An Ard Ri]

What a nice gathering at the Huis ten Bosch Palace to mark the occasion

 

[Marengo]

Apparently the King forgot to bring his glass for the toast, but he was quickly helped by an employee.

Nice to see Princess Beatrix participating in the luncheon too. A nice initiative to invite more ordinary people to the palace and it is always good to see them using this very special hall.

 

[Mbruno]

Yesterday there was a discussion in a daily late evening current affairs talk show and the Royal House was one of the topics. Marcia Luyten, an author of a book about Queen Máxima, claims to have spoken with hofdames and other ladies of the Court.

Apparently they were not happy with how Queen Máxima dresses. Not specifically how she dresses (taste is in the eye of the beholder) but more that a Queen wearing designers is, willingly or unwillingly, advertising for said designers and only helps her to get a label as living the jet-set life.

That was exactly the reason why Queen Beatrix had her own team of seamstresses and coupeuses, making every item specifically and exclusively for her. For another guest (Justine Marcella, Editor-in-Chief of Vorsten, a magazine which becomes too "light weight" under her editorship, to my taste) Queen Máxima wearing designer labels was not a problem at all.

Marcia Luyten thought it was exactly the distance, the decorum, the recognizeability of Queen Beatrix, was what kept the dignitas of the monarchy. Justine Marcella thought that we are living in 2023 and that copying Queen Beatrix' method (an own team of seamstresses and coupeuses dressing Queen Máxima) was no longer of this time.

Marcia Luyten is of the school that King Willem-Alexander telling in a podcast that he once had a TEAMS session in a jogging pants, or of Queen Máxima looking like the lady-next-door helps nothing for the monarchy: it only destroys the distance, the myth, the decorum a monarchy needs. Justine Marcella did not agree: a folksy King and a messy Queen would actually be "closer to the people".

Seeing the approval ratings I doubt Justine's opinion is the right way to go. My own opinion is that Queen Máxima should indeed have her own team of seamstresses and coupeuses and no longer wear couture labels and is in urgent need of a coiffeuse for every moment of the day.

And the sunglasses should go on a big bonfire. Such an absolute no-no.

I don’t think that is an issue to be honest. All other European Queens consort of similar age as Maxims wear designer’s clothes , as do also many Crown Princesses.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

That sentence struck me.

How come he is not seen as "kingly"? After all he has had ten years to prove himself, weed out mistakes and put his mark on things. And people have had the same ten years to get used to this new style and approach.
Is Amalia perhaps seen as more regal in comparison now that people are beginning to get to know her for real?

He is a buddy, a mate, a fellow, a chap, openly saying "I am no protocol fetishist". It is all okay and harmless but a buddy, mate, fellow, chap is not His Majesty The King.

So at the one side the King wants to be "normal" but at the other side this "normal" attitude undermines the same kingship. Why is this "normal chap" having a Court, palaces, horsedrawn carriages and why has it to be the second most expensive monarchy of Europe, for the oh so normal buddy WA and his wifey Maxi?

In that sense that distant Beatrix maybe works better. It is possible under Amalia that swing goes back to more distance. Wilhelmina was distant, Juliana was folksy, Beatrix was distant, Willem-Alexander is folksy, maybe Catharina-Amalia will be distant, you never know.

 

[Susan D]

The dinner took place in an incredibly grand room with painted walls and ceilings.

 

[JR76]

The dinner took place in an incredibly grand room with painted walls and ceilings.

It's the Oranjezaal (Hall of Orange). It was built by Princess Amalia around 1650 to honour her deceased husband, Prince Frederik Henrik of Orange. A formidable hall built by a formidable woman.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Today in all newspapers the general mood is that the monarchy slowly looses ground and most newspapers ask the question if this is the price of being too approachable? In the newspaper NRC the term Burgerkoning (Le Roi Citoyen) was used. On a talkshow was said: Things that may well be familiar so long as familiarity breeds affection but actually had much better stayed unfamiliar when familiarity breeds contempt.

Many references to the "Ecxuses" video after the ill-fated Greek holiday (not the royal couple should have made excuses but the Prime Minister) and about something like a podcast (nice that WA is a friendly man but do we want to know he once wore jogging pants under his desk while Zooming?).

So the interesting thing is that all media seems to agree that WA and Máxima are likeable and friendly people but he suffers the same fate as the teacher Mr Smith saying to his class: "No Mr Smith please, call me Joey". The distance has gone.

Fascinating to read these analyses but at the same time no one knows if more distance à la Beatrix would have helped the monarchy.

 

[An Ard Ri]

I don’t think that is an issue to be honest. All other European Queens consort of similar age as Maxims wear designer’s clothes , as do also many Crown Princesses.

And they also have a stylist to assist,too often Queen Máxima appears to have not bothered with her stylist and turns up with messy hair and creased outfits and such looks a mess.

The outfit yesterday was nice but sadly she forgot about her hairstyle

I was always an avid Dutch Royal Watcher but since Beatrix abdicated my interest in the Dutch Royals has declined steadily over the past decade.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Queen Elizabeth, Queen Margrethe and Queen Beatrix were (are) not recognizable wearing designers' clothes. All is (was) tailormade for them. No Tom Ford, no Balenciaga, no Chanel. Actually having a team of seamstresses, coupeuses and modinettes is more expensive than "Look: Amalia with an ASOS bag!" but it helped to avoid the royal ladies to be seen as designer clothes' addicts.

 

[lucien]

At first the press thought Prince Willem-Alexander would take the regnal name of Willem IV.

Hé said hé doesn't do numbers,hé is not a cow.

 

[Stefan]

Queen Elizabeth, Queen Margrethe and Queen Beatrix were (are) not recognizable wearing designers' clothes. All is (was) tailormade for them. No Tom Ford, no Balenciaga, no Chanel. Actually having a team of seamstresses, coupeuses and modinettes is more expensive than "Look: Amalia with an ASOS bag!" but it helped to avoid the royal ladies to be seen as designer clothes' addicts.

And nobody can find out the prizes like it is often the case for Designer clothes

 

[An Ard Ri]

Hé said hé doesn't do numbers,hé is not a cow.

Personally I've always looked at Regnal Numbers as a sign of continuity and not as a Trade Mark

 

[Marengo]

Fascinating to read these analyses but at the same time no one knows if more distance à la Beatrix would have helped the monarchy.

I think that nis a good point indeed. Had he been more distant I am sure the very same talking heads and columnists would be suggesting him to be more human, not above us but next to us etc as they did for Beatrix.

The lower support now is the story & we are stuck in a downward spiral. It is repeated and repeated in the press. And every time it is repeated we get the whole list of small missteps with it as well. This leads to lower ratings yet again.

The late 80-ties and the late 90-ties were periods where Beatrix' popularity also took a dive. The children are to old to be cute on the cookieboxes but too young to be of any real support to the monarchy.

 

[Marengo]

An interesting discussion tonight at Op1, the daily discussion programme on the first public channel. They mentioned the lower ratings for the King and finally somebody actually defended the monarchy, the mayor of Rotterdam Mr. Ahmed Aboutaleb.

He pointed out that he had meetings in private with the king where they discussed the present state of dissatisfaction among such a large part of society. The King asked him how the mayor succeeded in keeping up to date. The mayor said he would simply go somewhere unannounced and have discussions with people. He invited the king to come along. The King did so, spoke for hours with people and about their problems. He has done so often. These kinds of visits, though high in content will go by unnoticed. They are not announced, there is little or no press. But they are important to those that are visited. It sounds familiar as the NRC article above mentioned the same thing.

A cynic would say that it would be better for the King to focus less on content and more on PR. It has served the political parties well that have done so.

Jan Kees Emmer, a veteran royal reporter agreed with the mayor. He added another interesting observation which I have not seen stated so clearly before. He mentioned that the press had changed enormously. Ten years ago royalty reporting would -in most newspapers and television stations- still fall under the duties of political editors, who would focus on the content of a visit. The last ten years this has changed and now most newspapers and news channels -with a few exceptions- it will fall under the entertainment reporters. They will naturally focus on other aspects of these visits. As a result people will see less of what the royals actually do and more about other aspects.

Add to this the large group of chronically dissatisfied citizens that our country is plagued with. Unlike in Beatrix' times today we do not only have the caviar left - who think that they are far too clever to have a king - as anti monarchists. We now also have an increasing number of right wing populists and a frightfully loud group of insane conspiracy-theorists attacking the king, such as these last two days for the king discussing slavery with representatives in Rotterdam or the handing out of a royal decoration to an activist of the group 'kick-out black Pete'.

As a response to one of the questions today the King said that he has always tried to unite people, but he added the caveat that for that to work people need to want to be united. And considering the extremely polarised political situation that the country is in that seems to get harder and harder, especially on the populist right wing of the political spectrum, which is far larger than the other side. The monarchy is stuck in the middle receiving blow after blow for either being too 'woke' or for not being activist enough.

 

[ronald biver]

Ex queen Beatrix

Princess Beatrix did the right thing to abdicate in 2013 on behalf of prince Willem Alexander, after all the princess had a few health problems and didn't want to continue till the day she dies, prince Willem Alexander at that time reached the right age to become king and he is married. Not like the queen of Denmark & the king in Norway with their health problems, both their sons are ready to become kings.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I still miss the distance, the feeling for decorum, the dignitas of Queen Beatrix. At the same time we must not forget that also the Queen became under fire, for an example at every Christmas Address there were negative reactions of her being too woke and sitting in her ivory tower. We never hear that about King Willem-Alexander, whom distances himself far away from politics.

Even so that a reader wrote to a national newspaper: does the King, the head-of-state, ever hold the Prime Minister for account for the many shortcomings of the Cabinet policies in the past 12 years?

The answer is no because it is Parliament - and not the King- to hold the PM responsible but it shows the feeling of "what is the use then, of a King, if the Cabinet can staple failure after failure? " (pointing to countries like Italy where a President at least has some powers).

It is very difficult to find the right path and to combine the principle of a hereditary monarchy in a democratic and egalitarian society.