HRHThePrince
Gentry
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2012
- Messages
- 76
- City
- Houston
- Country
- United States
I guess Prince Harry won't be invested as anything until Charles is king.
Princess Alice was never a true Princess in her own right.I maintain that LPs are only needed for the creation of peerages. All other styles and titles, including prince/ss can bestowed by warrant, press release or verbal declaration. Princess Alice was style as a princess without LPs as was the Queen Mother on her death
Princess Alice was never a true Princess in her own right.
When Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester died, Alice got the Queen's permission to use the the title and style Her Royal HIghness Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester, instead of Her Royal Highness The Dowager Duchess of Gloucester. Princess Alice followed the example of her sister-in-law, Princess Marina, who also didn't want to be known as the Dowager Duchess; the difference, however, was that Marina was a Princess (of Greece and Denmark) from birth, while Alice was not.
Alice was allowed to be known as Princess Alice as a courtesy from the Queen, who felt that, as a wife (widow, by the time) of a British Prince, there were no obstacles for the Duchess to use the title.However, again, Alice was never legally a Princess since she wasn't born one (like Marina) or created a Princess by Letters Parent.
The Queen Mother was never, ever a Princess in her own right. She was Lady Bows-Lyon from 1904 to 1923, The Duchess of York from 1923 to 1936, The Queen (Consort) from 1936 to 1952 and The Queen Mother from 1952 to 2002. The last title is automatic for a Dowager Queen Consort who is also the mother of the present Monarch, so no Letters Patent were indeed required. For instance, Queen Mary was The Queen Mother from 1936 to 1952 (during the reigns of Edward VIII and George VI). Usually, the additions "Consort", "Dowager" or "Mother" are not used and all four types of Queens (Queen Regnant, Queen Consort, Queen Mother and Queen Dowager) are simply known as Her Majesty Queen Name.
The only reason Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother actually used the addition was to avoid any confusion with her daughter, also Queen Elizabeth.
Princess Alice was never a true Princess in her own right.
When Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester died, Alice got the Queen's permission to use the the title and style Her Royal HIghness Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester, instead of Her Royal Highness The Dowager Duchess of Gloucester. Princess Alice followed the example of her sister-in-law, Princess Marina, who also didn't want to be known as the Dowager Duchess; the difference, however, was that Marina was a Princess (of Greece and Denmark) from birth, while Alice was not.
Alice was allowed to be known as Princess Alice as a courtesy from the Queen, who felt that, as a wife (widow, by the time) of a British Prince, there were no obstacles for the Duchess to use the title.However, again, Alice was never legally a Princess since she wasn't born one (like Marina) or created a Princess by Letters Parent.
The Queen Mother was never, ever a Princess in her own right. She was Lady Bows-Lyon from 1904 to 1923, The Duchess of York from 1923 to 1936, The Queen (Consort) from 1936 to 1952 and The Queen Mother from 1952 to 2002. The last title is automatic for a Dowager Queen Consort who is also the mother of the present Monarch, so no Letters Patent were indeed required. For instance, Queen Mary was The Queen Mother from 1936 to 1952 (during the reigns of Edward VIII and George VI). Usually, the additions "Consort", "Dowager" or "Mother" are not used and all four types of Queens (Queen Regnant, Queen Consort, Queen Mother and Queen Dowager) are simply known as Her Majesty Queen Name.
The only reason Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother actually used the addition was to avoid any confusion with her daughter, also Queen Elizabeth.
What I'm saying is that the titles of Princes and Princesses don't need to be created at all: they are automatic.So you appear to be saying that LPs are not needed to create the style and titles of (Prince/ss) other than peerages or maybe I'm missing something.
I have to disagree with you, NGalitzine.Princess Marina's title of Princess of Greece and Denmark had no status in the UK so her styling as Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent was exactly the same as Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester. It was merely a courtesy granted by the Queen to her aunts. You will note that with her husband she took the time to actually create him a Prince of the United Kingdom since her father had merely granted him the style of HRH with the title of Duke of Edinburgh.
During the reign of King Charles - undoubtedly so.Investitures for Prince Harry is coming no doubt about it.
Investitures for Prince Harry is coming no doubt about it.
What order would that be? As far as i know the Royal Family order is restricted to women. Right now Harry I think only has the Golden and Diamond Jubilee Medals and the Afghanistan service medal.If I'm not mistaken, Harry already has the Queen's Family Order
My mistake, thanks for corrected.What order would that be? As far as i know the Royal Family order is restricted to women. Right now Harry I think only has the Golden and Diamond Jubilee Medals and the Afghanistan service medal.
What order would that be? As far as i know the Royal Family order is restricted to women. Right now Harry I think only has the Golden and Diamond Jubilee Medals and the Afghanistan service medal.
HM started her younger sons off as CVO and then a number of years later promoted them to KCVO and then GCVO.
I can see her giving Harry the CVO but higher orders waiting until his fathers accession.
Marina didn't use the title Princess Marina of the United Kingdom (to which she was not entitled), just Her Royal Highness Princess Marina - title and style she was entitled to from birth. At least, that's my opinion on this matter, although I certainly respect your viewpoint as well.Foreign titles have no status in the UK and any use of them in the UK required a royal warrant. Marina may never have given up her maiden titles but they had no status in the UK. If Marina had simply reverted to her maiden titles she would have been HRH Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark, Duchess of Kent. While I am sure HM took into consideration Marinas former status, I maintain that in the UK her usage of "Princess" was the same as for Alice, merely a social courtesy because no woman wants to be known as a Dowager, not a recognotion of her Greek titles.
I have to disagree with you, NGalitzine.
Princess Marina did become Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Kent upon her marriage. However, she also remained a Princess of Greece and Denmark as she was born one. Thus, upon her elder son's wedding she simply reverted to her titles by birth.
Of course, her decision to be known as Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent instead of the tradition The Dowager Duchess of Kent still needed approval from the Queen, which was dully granted in 1961, just before the current Duke and Duchess of Kent's marriage.
Prince Philip is a different case: he relinquished all his foreign titles and styles (unlike Marina, who never did that), so had to be created a Prince anew.
I still think The Queen will give Prince Harry an honour for his service to her and his service in Afghanistan.
Yes, I am aware of that. However, as with most people only the highest title (Duchess of Kent) was used.At the time of her death, Princess Marina's full style was: Her Royal Highness Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent, Countess of St. Andrews and Baroness Downpatrick
I still think The Queen will give Prince Harry an honour for his service to her and his service in Afghanistan.
Yes, I am aware of that. However, as with most people only the highest title (Duchess of Kent) was used.
Hardly as usual - NGalitzine proved it just minutes ago.You're right as usual
Foreign titles have no status in the UK and any use of them in the UK required a royal warrant. Marina may never have given up her maiden titles but they had no status in the UK. If Marina had simply reverted to her maiden titles she would have been HRH Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark, Duchess of Kent. While I am sure HM took into consideration Marinas former status, I maintain that in the UK her usage of "Princess" was the same as for Alice, merely a social courtesy because no woman wants to be known as a Dowager, not a recognotion of her Greek titles.
I still think The Queen will give Prince Harry an honour for his service to her and his service in Afghanistan.
Princess Marina's title of Princess of Greece and Denmark had no status in the UK so her styling as Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent was exactly the same as Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester. It was merely a courtesy granted by the Queen to her aunts. You will note that with her husband she took the time to actually create him a Prince of the United Kingdom since her father had merely granted him the style of HRH with the title of Duke of Edinburgh.