Death and Funeral of HI&RH Archduke Otto (1912-2011)

[Johann Salvator]

His Imperial and Royal Highness Crown Prince Otto of Austria, Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (1912- 2011).

May God bless his soul and may we all honour his memory.

 

[lucien]

What's the Cardinal saying about "Gott erhalte?"

He was just announcing it would be sung.

The gentleman in the Navy uniform of a Captain-Lieutenant,wearing the pillow with the Toison d'Or is the eldest son of Otto's daughter Gabriela,thus his grandson,Severin Meister.He served in the German Navy an dhas special permission by the German Embassy in Vienna to wear the uniform today.

His mother,Mrs.Meister néé Archduchess Gabriela of Austria lives in Georgia and is that country's ambassador to Germany.

The gentlemen in red uniforms escoring the Imperial Family consist of the Members of the Tradional Society of the Imperial Lifeguards,dressed in the uniform as was worn during the days of the Empire.Then,as now,they always escort the Family.

Thousands followed the Requiem at the Stephans Square by the video walls.While ten's of thousands line the streets trhough which the funerary procession will proceed to the Kapuziner church.On the Helden Platz ( Hero's Square) there will be a salute by firing guns.

At present you see the Guards of the present day Austrian army. Austrian top brass insisted on participating in the funerary ceremonies.
Good.

Did I hear correctly that the Archbishop of Prague was present?
I noticed that the President did not sing "Gott Erhalte!"

Hmm,wonder why....every funeral has a funny note to it..
But HM Queen Silvia and TSH Prince Hans-Adam and Princess Marie -Aglaé did sing the anthem..Gott Beschütze,Gott erhalte,unseren Kaiser,unseren Land....

Yes,Bishops of all neighbouring dioceses,read all the former Lands of the Empire,are present.Yes.

 

[kmerian]

And, of course, the men in the black robes with the white crosses are members of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta, the oldest and most prestigious order of the Catholic Church

So is this a state funeral? I know the Austrian government said it would not be. But you have the Austrian military, heads of state, heads of government, etc...

 

[lucien]

They haven't been able to really point that out and came out with a semi-state funeral.Semi State,and then all these people show up at ones funeral.No,it definitely IS a State Funeral,it's just official Austria can't get that out between their lips as it is a republic now....Hmm,a republic with a strong foundation shouldn't be halve as nervous at it....Their top brass insisted to appear and have part in this funeral,such are the sentiments,the honour and respect.

The President and the Chancellor of Austria are in attendance,so no,they do pay respect.And,the State of Austria abolished the Laws against Members of the House of Habsburg participating in elections for President of Austria.

That is correct Cory....what are they so afraid for...hmm

Does the Austrian President actually live in the Hofburg or just have an office there?

Just the office.

 

[kmerian]

A semi-state funeral? Isn't that like being semi-pregnant?

At least the military is showing the proper respect, even if the Government can't bring themselves to.

 

[Harold]

I thought that I read the entire route of the procession was only 1km long. It seems to be taking a long time for just 1km.

 

[Cory]

I suppose it's about 5 km ...

 

[lucien]

I suppose it's about 5 km ...

In fact it is reall a short distance,a few minutes walk really,but they take such a detour especially for this historic occasion and because the procession is the longest in Austrian history,about 1,5 km.

When the coffin was set in motion at the Dom,the front of the procession had already reached the Helden Platz.

You see the salute at the Helden Platz now

 

[Cory]

Thank you, Lucien, for being our guide today at this hystoric event!

 

[lucien]

It is really moving to see the Imperial Banner once more in the streets of Vienna,and thousands throng the streets to pay their respects,or just out of curiosity,likewise,they are there and it is a most fitting farewell of a great human being ans last Crown Prince of Austria-Hungary IMHO.

Mr.Ulrich Lipp,family friend and lawyer,will now perform the Knocking on the Door ceremony.

 

[Harold]

Well, we can dream that the Imperial Banner will return permanently!

Who is acting as Head of the Household to knock on the door?

 

[Renata4711]

ORF TVthek: Adelsbegräbnisse / Burials of royals:

Austrian TV compiled this film of clips of aristocratic burials, including:
Emperor Franz-Josef, Crown Prince Rudolf and Marie Vetsera (Mayerling), Empress Sissi, Empress Zita, Queen Wilhelmina, Princess Diana, Princess Grace, Prince Rainier, Princess Margaret, Queen Mum, King Baudouin, and Marylin Monroe.

ORF TVthek: Adelsbegräbnisse - 16.07.2011 12:10 Uhr

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...ke-otto-1912-2011-a-31434-13.html#post1287440

 

[Sancia]

The ceremonial at the Capuchins crypt is very moving.
But where is archduchess Regina's coffin? She is supposed to be buried with her husband.

 

[MAfan]

Archduchess Regina's coffin is already inside the Capuchins Church.

 

[lucien]

The ceremonial at the Capuchins crypt is very moving.
But where is archduchess Regina's coffin? She is supposed to be buried with her husband.

She is already waiting in the church to be interred together with her husband at the Gruft chapel,next to his late mother Empress Zita and brother Carl Ludwig.

 

[Sancia]

Thanks! I haven't practised German for a while so I don't understand the whole commentary.

 

[Harold]

What is Karl saying about moving his grandfather's body from Madeira to Vienna? And there will be no broadcast from inside the Crypt?

 

[MAfan]

No, the burial inside the Crypt will be a private ceremony, attended only by the closest relatives of Otto and Regina.

 

[Noor Mariam]

The broadcast was really fantastic...I am so happy having the chance of watching the whole ceremony... May his soul rest in peace!!!

Lucien, thanks again for the link !!!

 

[justina]

He was the last Crown Prince of Austro-Hungary but his elder son could become the Emperor of Austria.I suppose many austrians think Monarchy could be a better solution for Austria.
I noticed everybody was very respectful (with the exception of the problem of the surname continously repeated without "von") and the Habsburgs seem to me quite popular despite of a so long republican campaign.

Well, as a resident in the western part of Austria I have to say that they may be known historically, but there is no chance to restore monarchy - if there is any fear that may be in vienna, but that is a different story

 

[lucien]

What is Karl saying about moving his grandfather's body from Madeira to Vienna? And there will be no broadcast from inside the Crypt?

No broadcast inside the Crypt,it is a private family ceremony.

The remains of Blessed Emperor Karl I will remain in Madeira.After he was pronounced the Blessed Emperor Karl I,the church is responsible for him and his resting place.And as the veneration of the late Emperor Karl in Madeira is such,it was decided he will remain there,as I said earlyer this week when the late Archduke Otto's secretary and assistant Mrs Eva Demmerle said as much.

I do not know what you all think,but I thought it to be a very moving and fitting farewell.Very much so.


@ Justina,no,but like Archduke Karl said,there is no reason to break a knee over that,mann sollte eben kein knie daruber zerbrechen...

I really hope everybody was able to follow the entire ceremony.Bless you all.

 

[Kataryn]

I just finished the programme on Otto von Habsburg's life (I recorded the whole programme and will watch it later) and it was said that after the Audtrians threw Otto out without a passport after WWII General de Gauille of France saw to it that he got a Monegasque diplomat's passport with which he could settle in Lorraine. He also acknowledged the titles of Duc de Lorraine and Duc de Bar for official use in France which the whole family could use. But sometime at a later date Otto seem to have granted the title Duc de Bar to his brother Carl, because this branch still uses it (and it is recognized officially in Luxembourg as well) while Otto was not called a "Herzog von Lothringen und Bar" (Duke of Lorraine and of Bar) at his funeral, just Herzog von Lothringen while his mother Zita was announced at her funeral as Herzogin von Lothringen und von Bar (Duchess of Lorraine and of Bar).

Does anyone knows more? And maybe this post belongs to another thread? Sorry, if so. .

 

[Harold]

Thanks, Lucien, for your insight. A few more questions:

"No need to break a knee over that." What does that mean?

Who was the gentleman who knocked on the Capuchin Church? Does Karl have a "household?" I know many non-reigning royals do.

 

[Kataryn]

In a real democracy a surname should be respected and not see this shameful cut off of "von".The austrian republicans still apply a non-democratical law that forbids the use of "von".They really fear to call the dead Archduke Otto von Habsburg and they continue with their "Otto Habsburg". The republicans still fear the restoration of the Habsburgs that's why they still mantain non-democratical laws of 1919.

Austria has no more "von" in a surname. So to distinguish the Austrian citizen from the German one (Otto voin Habsburg had dual citizenship), they call him Otto Habsburg or Otto Habsburg-Lothingen. Otto von Habsburg is the German name. So in a way this usage of the name includes Otto into today's Austria, using the "von" would make him a foreig citizen, an alien to Austria. The fact that the Austria president, the chancellor and the vice-chancellor were present when Otto's former titles were named at the door of the Capucine church says it all: it shows utmost respect for the dead Archduke, as it is officially not allowed to name a person who is/was Austrian citizen by these titles. It is the same respect they showed to the late empress Zita, BTW.

 

[Kataryn]

Thanks, Lucien, for your insight. A few more questions:

"No need to break a knee over that." What does that mean?

Who was the gentleman who knocked on the Capuchin Church? Does Karl have a "household?" I know many non-reigning royals do.

It was a close friend of the family, Dr. Ulrich-Walter Lipp, a lawyer from Graz. He has been a friend of the Archduchess Walburga and been her witness at her wedding while she served as witness for his wedding. She introduced him to her father and they became close friends, spending many holidays en famille toegther. He helped organize many formal Habsburg occassions like the feast of the Golden wedding Jubile in Mariazell, and helped Otto plan his burial festivities, so he was the right man to be chosen as the master of ceremonies.

 

[Kataryn]

"No need to break a knee over that." What does that mean?

.

I think you mean the expression: Kein Grund, etwas übers Knie zu brechen - that means: no need to hurry or to force something when it is not urgently necessary.

 

[lucien]

Thanks, Lucien, for your insight. A few more questions:

"No need to break a knee over that." What does that mean?

Who was the gentleman who knocked on the Capuchin Church? Does Karl have a "household?" I know many non-reigning royals do.

Not to break a knee = Not urgent,not opportune,no issue of discussion.
All three in this case according to Archduke Karl.

Theman of the Knocking on the Door ceremony was Mr.Lipp,a family friend and lawyer.

He does have a very modest sort of household,yes,a secretary and the odd cook and maid to dust,a nanny.He is a modest man.Household realy is too big a word for it.But there might be a few more joining especially in the office section as the new Head of the House will have a busy schedule,as had his father.He will visit all the former Habsburg Lands fe,schedules have to be made,agenda's drawn etc etc enz. But still,modest.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Reqiuem Mass at St Stephen's Cathedral

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5V98E3e9eA


Arrival the the Capuchins Church

‪Bestattung / Funeral - Otto von Habsburg - Anklopfzeremonie - Kapuzinerkirche‬‏ - YouTube

 

[maria-olivia]

To Lucien ,
Thanks for your work. I was frustrated I could see what happened in Bavaria but not the most interesting in Austria. Wonderful pictures of one of the Gotha's greatest Event
Seeing the pictures Archduke Karl will be a perfect Head of the House of Habsbourg.
I think he will wear "black tie" when he officially will receive the Collar of the Golden Fleece. Do you think he will wear his Father's Collar ?

 

[Kataryn]

ORF TVthek: Adelsbegräbnisse / Burials of royals:

Austrian TV compiled this film of clips of aristocratic burials, including:
Marylin Monroe.

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...ke-otto-1912-2011-a-31434-13.html#post1287440

Ah, the first "people's princess"....