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  #241  
Old 06-17-2008, 05:09 AM
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I agree, the Emparial Family should finally have the chance to be able rest in peace.
It is horrible what happend to them, and speaking for myself I guess I always wanted to believe that Her Imperial Highness Grand Duchess Anastasia survived this tragedy. As a child I saw the miniserie Anastasia with Amy Irving (my compliments to Miss Irving!!) and wanted to believe in the "fairytale" but facts are facts and DNA is conclusive, as far as I know...
Now that all the member of the Imperial Family have been found, I hope that they will be reunited in Russia and that they will rest in peace.
I don't think, and this is just my opinion, that this will put an end to all the rumors and speculation, it is just like the tragic death of Diana Princess of Wales, there will alway be someone who has new "evidence" or new "facts" and there will always be people who buy these stories. (Unfortunaly) These people diserve respect and peace.
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  #242  
Old 06-17-2008, 10:57 AM
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Wow!

So-called "imperial remains" (from the second burial place) it has appeared insufficiently for carrying out of examination

(in reduction, in my translation)
Ekaterinburg. On June, 17th. INTERFAX/ The Head of the Sverdlovsk regional bureau of judicial medical examination Nikolay Nevolin has told today: «Quantities of remains which have been found in so-called "the second burial place" (and, probably, belong to children of last Russian emperor), it were insufficiently for examination.
<…>
As he said, the assumption has been made that the quantity of the remains which have been found in "the second burial place", " is very not enough of that what should remain at burning two bodies".
"Therefore there is a version that this burning originally could be made on Ganina Yama, and after that - here. The second variant: burning was spent here, and then the remains have been carried in several places. The second version will be studied. How much I know, archeologists will carry out additional researches on all areas ", - the expert has told.
<…>
As he said, "it is impossible to exclude that other burial places will be found also".
"As to Ganina Yama, already many buildings are constructed there, therefore there already hardly something can be found ", - has noted N.Nevolin.
Besides it, the chief of a department of archeology of the research-and-production center on protection and use of monuments of history and culture of Sverdlovsk area Sergey Pogorelov has informed, that at a recent meeting with chairman of the regional government Victor Koksharov (on which also there were representatives of the State Office of Public Prosecutor and the regional ministry of culture), "all have supported that it is necessary to continue researches".
"Authorities like are ready to give money from the budget. In any case we do not plan work before August - if there will be a financing. In August we shall be ready to start to work ", - S.Pogorelov has explained.
As he said, probably, archeologists will contact private investors also - for financing works. " But we did not do any offers till now ", - the archeologist has told.
<…>
http://www.interfax-religion.ru/?act=news&div=24962 (in Russian)
***************************************************
As Peter Kurth said earlier and now:
THIS STORY WILL NEVER END!
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  #243  
Old 06-17-2008, 04:18 PM
Aristocracy
 
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Wow...

Laboratories in the USA and Austria have finished the researches of so-called "the imperial remains"
(in reduction, in my translation)
Ekaterinburg. On June, 17th. INTERFAX - Genetic laboratories in the USA and Austria have ended researches of so-called "imperial remains"; a number of examinations goes on in the Sverdlovsk bureau of judicial medical examination, - the head of a bureau Nikolay Nevolin has informed "Interfax" on Tuesday.
"I can tell, that a number of examinations is finished, other number is not finished, and, probably, researches will have some continuation. For example, the examination of an opportunity of definition of those places in DNA, that responsible for development of disease by a hemophilia is not finished for the present. It is complex research and it is difficult to foresee its result».
"I think, further work will proceed as follows: those results which are received, they will be directed to reviewers for definition of completeness of researches. Some results are received already now - they will be promulgated to the middle of July, - when the reviews will be received", - N.Nevolin has told.
" The researches most likely still will go on further ", - the expert has noted.
http://www.interfax-religion.ru/?act=news&div=24961 (in Russian)
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  #244  
Old 06-17-2008, 06:27 PM
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It's the end of this so called 'Romanov mystery'. Those remains that were found in July of 2007 are those of Alexei and his sisters. I knew it was the remains of Alexei and his sister, because the bones were remains belong to a boy aged between 13 and 15. The other, Anastasia, who was 17, or her sister Maria, who was 19. The only problem is, that the female remains are either Anastasia or Maria. About, 17 years ago in 1991, 9 bodies were found believed to be those of both servants and imperial family. The four servants, Nicholas, Alexandra, Olga, Tatiana were identified. They had trouble identifying the remains of someone, it was either Maria or Anastasia. The remains stood up to 5ft 7in. I believe, those were the remains of Maria. As, Dr.Maples said it's too tall to be Anastasia. It is true, Anastasia could have had a possible extra growth in her height. I don't know! Dispite the fact that: Maria and Anastasia's remains can't be tell from apart, it's the end to this mystery. All, 11 remains been found. The Romanovs can finally rest in peace.


DNA confirms IDs of czar's children, ending mystery 5/1/2008
Stephan Savoia, AP
In this Wednesday, April 2, 2008 file photo Anastasia Girgorenko, a Russian post doctoral student, works with DNA samples in a laboratory at the Irving and Betty Brudnick Neuropsychiatric Research Institute in Worcester, Mass. At the institute, Russian scientist Evgeny Rogaev heads a team of scientists looking into the possibility that bone fragments found near the Russian city of Yekaterinburg are those of Czar Nicholas II's children. DNA tests performed by a U.S. laboratory have proved that bone fragments exhumed in the Ural Mountains belong to two children of Russia's last czar, Russian news agencies reported Wednesday April 30, 2008. Eduard Rossel, governor of the Sverdlovsk region, told a news conference that the fragments, dug up last year near the city Yekaterinburg, were indeed those of Crown Prince Alexei and his sister, Maria.

By Mike Eckel, Associated Press Writer
MOSCOW — For nine decades after Bolshevik executioners gunned down Czar Nicholas II and his family, there were no traces of the remains of Crown Prince Alexei, the hemophiliac heir to Russia's throne.
Some said the delicate 13-year-old had somehow survived and escaped; others believed his bones were lost in Russia's vastness, buried in secret amid fear and chaos as the country lurched into civil war.
Now an official says DNA tests have solved the mystery by identifying bone shards found in a forest as those of Alexei and his sister, Grand Duchess Maria.
The remains of their parents -- Nicholas II and Empress Alexandra -- and three siblings, including the czar's youngest daughter, Anastasia, were unearthed in 1991 and reburied in the imperial resting place in St. Petersburg. The Russian Orthodox Church made all seven of them saints in 2000.
Despite the earlier discoveries and ceremonies, the absence of Alexei's and Maria's remains gnawed at descendants of the Romanov dynasty, history buffs and royalists. Even if Wednesday's announcement is confirmed and widely accepted, many descendants of the royal family are unlikely to be fully assuaged; they seek formal "rehabilitation" by the government.

"The tragedy of the czar's family will only end when the family is declared victims of political repression," said German Lukyanov, a lawyer for royal descendants.
Nicholas abdicated in 1917 as revolutionary fervor swept Russia, and he and his family were detained. They were shot by a firing squad on July 17, 1918, in the basement of the Yekaterinburg house where they were being held.
Rumors persisted that some of the family had survived and escaped. Claims by women to be Anastasia were particularly prominent, although there were also pretenders to Alexei's and Maria's identities.
"It was 99.9 percent clear they had all been killed; now with these shards, it's 100 percent," said Nadia Kizenko, a Russian scholar at the University at Albany, State University of New York. "Those who regret this news will be those who liked the royal pretender myth."
Alexei was one of the more compelling of the victims, drawing sympathy because of his hemophilia. His mother's terror of the disease and fear that he would not live to gain the throne were key to her falling under the thrall of the hypnotic and sexually ravenous self-declared holy man Rasputin, who exerted vast influence on the royal family.
Researchers unearthed the bone shards last summer in a forest near Yekaterinburg, where the royal family was killed, and enlisted Russian and U.S. laboratories to conduct DNA tests.
Eduard Rossel, governor of the region 900 miles east of Moscow, said tests done by a U.S. laboratory had identified the shards as those of Alexei and Maria.
"This has confirmed that indeed it is the children," he said. "We have now found the entire family."
"The main genetic laboratory in the United States has concluded its work with a full confirmation of our own laboratories' work," Rossel said.
He did not specify the laboratory, but a genetic research team working at the University of Massachusetts Medical School has been involved in the process. Evgeny Rogaev, who headed the team that tested the remains in Moscow and at the medical school in Worcester, Mass., was called into the case by the Russian Federation Prosecutor's Office.
He told The Associated Press on Wednesday that he delivered the results to Russian authorities, but said it was up to the prosecutor's office -- not him or his team -- to disclose the findings.
"The most difficult work is done and we have delivered to them our expert analysis, but we are still working," he said. "Scientifically, we want to make the most complete investigation possible."
The test results were based on analysis of mitochondrial DNA, the genetic material passed down only from mothers to children. That DNA is more stable than nuclear DNA -- the material inherited from the father's side -- especially when remains are badly damaged.
In this case, the bone fragments were so shattered and burned that Rogaev's team first had to determine whether enough uncontaminated genetic material still existed for testing.
The delicate work proved that, indeed, useful DNA could be extracted from a very small amount of the material -- a critical fact, since they wanted to preserve as much of the bone fragments as possible out of respect for the victims.
The researchers also compared DNA from the remains with those of Empress Alexandra, who was a granddaughter of Britain's Queen Victoria and a distant relative of Prince Philip, the husband of Queen Elizabeth II.
With the mitochondrial analysis completed, the team is working on the nuclear DNA analysis and comparing the samples to paternal relatives of the czar's family.
That information, along with conclusions already delivered to the Russian prosecutors, eventually will be submitted to a professional journal for peer review and publication.
It was unclear if the Russian Orthodox Church will recognize them as genuine. The church's press service said no one could comment on Wednesday's announcement.
It was also unclear whether the descendents of the royal family would accept the identification. Lukyanov said neither he nor his clients had received confirmation.
Lukyanov's efforts to get the government to declare the royal family victims of political repression have been repeatedly rejected by Russian courts, which have said the family's killing was premeditated murder, not a political reprisal.
He said Russia had much to do to overcome its tortured past.
"They say that as long as the last soldier remains unburied, the war continues," Lukyanov told AP. "So long as the last victim of Bolshevik terror and the Communist regime remains unrehabilitiated, the repression will continue."
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  #245  
Old 06-17-2008, 07:03 PM
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The Romanov mystery remains unsolved. The tests performed on the bones found last summer are inconclusive.
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  #246  
Old 06-17-2008, 07:18 PM
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No, the Romanov case it's already solved. The remains found on July 2007 are of Alexei and his sister. People like you,want to defend the survial theory and make it seem like there is a mystery when really it isn't. All seven of the Romanovs DIED that night, not one of them survived.
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  #247  
Old 06-17-2008, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnastasiaEvidence View Post
No, the Romanov case it's already solved. The remains found on July 2007 are of Alexei and his sister. People like you,want to defend the survial theory and make it seem like there is a mystery when really it isn't. All seven of the Romanovs DIED that night, not one of them survived.
And why do you care that they think differently? ChatNoir has done extensive research to support his theory, as well as AGRBear and John K and Peter Kurth.
In fact, because of their efforts, new evidence in fleshing this whole story out is constantly being added to the existing story.
Keeping an open mind is paramount. I'm sorry yours is so closed.
It's fascinating and it's not hurting anybody.
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  #248  
Old 06-17-2008, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russophile View Post
And why do you care that they think differently? ChatNoir has done extensive research to support his theory, as well as AGRBear and John K and Peter Kurth.
In fact, because of their efforts, new evidence in fleshing this whole story out is constantly being added to the existing story.
Keeping an open mind is paramount. I'm sorry yours is so closed.
It's fascinating and it's not hurting anybody.
I didn't say that, it was bad to think differently. But, it is bad to continue to keep a 'fantasy' up. I don't agree with them. I don't believe that Anastasia was Anna Anderson. Or, that any of the Imperial Family memebers survived. I've believe all the remains of the Romanovs have been found. I don't think you really respect the Romanovs, because you all are making the mystery 'stay alive'. There is NO mystery. It's a complete disgrace to the Imperial family.
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  #249  
Old 06-17-2008, 07:41 PM
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That's interesting that you say that it's "disrespectful to the Romanovs" to keep researching history. I disagree. I think it's very respectful of history to make sure every stone is uncovered, every little scrap of evidence placed under the microscope. What they knew in 1920 has VASTLY changed in 2008. I, for one, applaud their efforts and thirst for more. I don't think it has anything to do with being disrespectful at all.
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  #250  
Old 06-17-2008, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russophile View Post
That's interesting that you say that it's "disrespectful to the Romanovs" to keep researching history. I disagree. I think it's very respectful of history to make sure every stone is uncovered, every little scrap of evidence placed under the microscope. What they knew in 1920 has VASTLY changed in 2008. I, for one, applaud their efforts and thirst for more. I don't think it has anything to do with being disrespectful at all.
Well, as I said. I don't agree with you. There really isn't a mystery. People continue to defend the rumours and frauds. I'm meaning that it's disrespectful to the MEMORY of the Romanovs. It's not fair to say that there were any survivors during that night, when there reeally wasn't. All those bones in the ground of the murdered Romanovs proves it.
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  #251  
Old 06-18-2008, 10:00 AM
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Post specifically discussing the Anna Anderson-Anastasia issue have been moved to the appropriate thread, here.
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  #252  
Old 06-18-2008, 10:10 AM
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Now, in English:

http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=4803
Studies of suspected Russian royal remains continues - expert


Yekaterinburg, Russia, June 18, Interfax - Laboratories in the United States and Austria have finished identification investigations of the suspected remains of the son and one of the daughters of last Russian tsar Nicholas II but more studies are needed, a senior Russian forensic expert said.

"I can say that some of the tests have been finished and some not, and apparently there will be some more investigations.
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  #253  
Old 06-18-2008, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BorisRom View Post
So-called "imperial remains" (from the second burial place) it has appeared insufficiently for carrying out of examination

(in reduction, in my translation)
Ekaterinburg. On June, 17th. INTERFAX/ The Head of the Sverdlovsk regional bureau of judicial medical examination Nikolay Nevolin has told today: «Quantities of remains which have been found in so-called "the second burial place" (and, probably, belong to children of last Russian emperor), it were insufficiently for examination.
<…>
As he said, the assumption has been made that the quantity of the remains which have been found in "the second burial place", " is very not enough of that what should remain at burning two bodies".
"Therefore there is a version that this burning originally could be made on Ganina Yama, and after that - here. The second variant: burning was spent here, and then the remains have been carried in several places. The second version will be studied. How much I know, archeologists will carry out additional researches on all areas ", - the expert has told.

Clearly... It's now time once again to jump back into this conversation...

In Boris's post of this latest news report from Interfax... Here we have the leading spokesman for the current DNA investigation Nikolai Nevolin, head of the Medical Examination Bureau in Ekaterinburg
now saying publicly... on the record...

"Quantities of remains which have been found in so-called "the second burial place"... were insufficient for examination."

Nevolin then goes on even further to add these now very revealing words:

"...the quantity of the remains which have been found is... not enough of what should remain at burning two bodies".

What he has now said here to Interfax is just another way of saying that they have only found evidence of one.... and not two.

Of Course.... Everyone here is completely free to draw his or her own conclusions.

JK
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  #254  
Old 06-19-2008, 08:05 AM
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According to Yurosvosky's note he states that he buried two bodies in a different section. He said it was those of Alexei and Demidova (mistaken for one of the grand duchesses). The remains discovered in July of 2007 are of Alexei and his sister. The remains were found in a different section, from the 9 others discovered in 1991.

YUROVSKY'S ACCOUNT
It was mentioned that the ties had been laid there to let a truck pass. So, having dug up the entire area, they did not think to look under the ties. It is necessary to say that all our men were so tired. They did not want to dig a new grave. But as it always happens in such cases, two or three men started working, then the others began. A fire was made and while the graves where being prepared we burned two corpses: Alexei and Demidova. The pit was dug near the fire. The bones were buried, the land was leveled. A big fire was made again and all the traces were covered with ashes. Before putting the other corpses into the pit we poured sulpheric acid over them. The pit was filled up and covered with the ties. The empty truck drove over the ties several times and rolled them flat.YUROVSKY Acidently mistaken Anna Demidova for one of the grand duchesses (Anastasia or Maria)
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  #255  
Old 06-19-2008, 10:19 AM
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And if Alexei and Anastasia really were burned, why did the Bolsheviks plaster posters all over Ekaterinburg announcing the disappearing of two of the children? Why would they stop trains and seek among the passengers for Alexei and Anastasia?
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  #256  
Old 06-19-2008, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChatNoir View Post
And if Alexei and Anastasia really were burned, why did the Bolsheviks plaster posters all over Ekaterinburg announcing the disappearing of two of the children? Why would they stop trains and seek among the passengers for Alexei and Anastasia?
Because, it was World War I, and Russia had other important matters to deal with. Germany, France and the UK! They thought that Alexei and Anastasia survived because they couldn't find their bodies. What about this Mind shaft?
Investigations at the mine at "The Four Brothers"
Unfortunately, the White army came too late. They were suppose to rescue the Imperial family, but they were too late.
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  #257  
Old 06-19-2008, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnastasiaEvidence View Post
Because, it was World War I, and Russia had other important matters to deal with. Germany, France and the UK! They thought that Alexei and Anastasia survived because they couldn't find their bodies. What about this Mid shaft? Unfortunately, the White army came too late. They were suppose to rescue the Imperial family, but they were too late.
They could not find their bodies??? Who of the Bolsheviks were looking for the bodies?
If you are thinking of the Whites, they had no idea that two bodies were missing from the grave since they did not find the grave to begin with. The fact of the matter is, that Ekaterinburg was searched after the murders for the two missing children. And why search for them if they knew very well that everybody was dead and buried?
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  #258  
Old 06-19-2008, 01:25 PM
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And your point is?
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  #259  
Old 06-19-2008, 01:57 PM
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My point is that all the seven remains of the Romanovs have been found! There shouldn't be any questions asked. End of Story.
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  #260  
Old 06-19-2008, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnastasiaEvidence View Post
My point is that all the seven remains of the Romanovs have been found! There shouldn't be any questions asked. End of Story.
Apparently you have not read the reports from Interfax that Boris posted.
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