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  #141  
Old 07-02-2009, 09:56 AM
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interesting interview with Constantine



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  #142  
Old 11-10-2009, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Odette View Post
The Greek people by referendum rejected the monarchy by a large majority. (Over 80%).
In fact, 31% voted for the Monarchy and 69% for the Republic.

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K Constantine ...... found the process unfair, since he did not have the chance to present his side, before the voters cast their votes.
This is true. He did not have ample opportunity to do so, thence Mr Mitsotakis's statement about the process, "it was unfair". Regardless, the climate at the time was not conducive to a fair process.

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If the Greeks have no love for the GRF, the Greek Royals have no power. Sad but this is a 34 year old story and the young people feel no closeness to them.
Perhaps, it may be said that, irrespective of feelings toward personages, young Greeks perceive the institution of monarchy as something foreign to them, as is the case in the USA.
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  #143  
Old 11-10-2009, 08:48 PM
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The Royal family fell into oblivion after the return of Karamanlis, the referendum and the subsequent governments of Nea Demokratia and Pasok. A large section of the Greek population grew up without knowing anything about them.
The first time they returned was for Q Frederika's funeral and the few houres they were allowed to spend on Greek soil was not something the TV stations and newspapers reported at length.
I agree that the younger generation grew up with neither love nor hate for the royals, which their parents and grandparents feel for their own reasons. However this indifference the Greeks feel today for the family is worse than the passions of the past. It means they can see them on TV during their vacations or Baptisms and then go back to their daily lives. There is no discussion or interest in resurrecting the subject.
It is sad for those of us who kept the dream alive for a long time but even we understand this issue belongs in our past and will stay there.
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  #144  
Old 11-12-2009, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Odette View Post
I agree that the younger generation grew up with neither love nor hate for the royals, which their parents and grandparents feel for their own reasons. However this indifference the Greeks feel today for the family is worse than the passions of the past.
It is worse if one supports the cause of the monarchy but not necessarily for the fate of the nation. There, it is hard to say. We do not know how Greece (that by the way did very well due, mainly, to its joining the EU) would have fared with consitutional monarch instead of the republic, from 1974 to date. We do, however, know some from the paradigm of other European countries that underwent change of polity in the 20th century. Spain, for instance, did superbly with the return of the monarchy after a period of constitutional irregularity, Germany emerged as a superpower (even from the ashes of WWII) as a republic. So, it is hard to say.

As a general comment, it may be stated that the Greeks may be likened to the Americans [this perhaps may be a reason why they do very well in the USA]. That is, they want unlimited freedom [thence their entrepreneurial spirit] and are conservatives, who dislike communism. Their dislike for, in fact profound fear of, communism was what necessitated the return of the monarchy in 1936 (after 12 years of republic) and the stay until 1974 - that is, not necessarily a genuine preference for monarchy versus republic but by necessity.
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  #145  
Old 11-12-2009, 01:02 PM
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Perhaps, it may be said that, irrespective of feelings toward personages, young Greeks perceive the institution of monarchy as something foreign to them, as is the case in the USA.

Could this be because Greece (the press/goverment) do all that they can to remove any referance to them in the country? most of the younger generation do not even know that they had a king or where the royal palace is/was - in Athans. So in a way they have wiped the GRF from the minds of the people.
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  #146  
Old 11-12-2009, 06:16 PM
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Kingship is an art. It always involved strict and erudite training, but having an hereditary element it is very much at the mercy of the individual. We have to accept that some men are not up to the job, this was the real tragedy of Greece. People who excuse the inexcusable never ever get their delicate hands bloodied.
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  #147  
Old 11-12-2009, 07:31 PM
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If you look at the history of Greece will reach the obvious conclusion, Greece has never wanted a monarchy.The monarchy only interested in Greece when they needed foreign money.
an example:
Greece becomes a State in the XIX century, they were occupied by the Turks, to liberalize of them and be a state, they needed financing for war, money, weapons, military support came from countries like Denmark, .. .... It explains why the first kings were strangers.
Greece has not been a country of natural resources, foreign loans, the search for investments, reaching with the Kings ... After World War II approved a refermdun to restore the monarchy, Why? They needed money ... King Pavlo and queen Federika introduced to Greece in the Marchall´s plans and promoted the turism ... late 50's monarchy was important for Cyprus, Cyprus needed military support and the support of Britain and others against the Turks .., but in the 60s with the king Pavlo on the throne and agreements already signed ... the monarchy began to be unnecessary for Greece and political. They did not need money, they did not need a monarchy.
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  #148  
Old 11-12-2009, 09:38 PM
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I was referring to the Greek Royal Family not the country. Greece has survived for thousands of years and even after 400 years of Ottoman occupation the language, the faith and customs were left intact.
No one can say how the Royal family would have changed the course of the country. I tend to believe that nothing would be different.
The only difference would be that the left wing politicians would scream louder and accuse them for everything wrong from the weather to the economy and everything else.
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  #149  
Old 11-12-2009, 09:56 PM
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From what I have read, That makes sense, Odette.
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  #150  
Old 11-12-2009, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by IRIS1983 View Post
If you look at the history of Greece will reach the obvious conclusion, Greece has never wanted a monarchy.The monarchy only interested in Greece when they needed foreign money...
Iris I believe you are wrong but you are entitled to your opinion.
In 1821 when Greece rose against the Ottoman yoke they got financial assistance from abroad. The foreign powers who assisted them financially had their own reasons help and to control each other's influence in the area.
The "great powers" sent over Otto from Bavaria and should he had been agreeable to allow them to have a parliamentary democracy perhaps his heirs (if any) would still be reigning there. When the Danish prince came and reigned for another 35 years as King George I the Greeks loved him dearly. After the Balkan wars when the same "great powers" wanted to force King Constantine to enter the fray and he balked they found Venizelos to do their dirty deed and the King was sent to exile.
The current King's misfortune was that he was very young and inexperienced when he ascended the throne and the Greeks felt a great antipathy towards Queen Frederika who continued to live there and pour oil in the fire. Along came the US backed Junta in 1967 and the poor King had no chance..
The suggestion that Greeks accepted the monarchy because there was a financial benefit attached to it is not true.

What on earth would the monarchy did or not to do with Cyprus?
Cyprus was bought from Turkey by the British and it became a part of the Commonwealth. The Greek Cypriots who were 82% of the population fought against the British and gained their independence. You suggest the British financed a war against themselves?

With regard to the Marshall plan, the whole of western Europe benefited because the Americans wanted to rebuild Europe and have a strong trading partner. Same thing with the EU. A lot of states received funds and if I am not wrong there are billions being spent now to deepen and widen the port of Cadiz in Spain. Funds that were sent from the EU.
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  #151  
Old 11-12-2009, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Odette View Post
I was referring to the Greek Royal Family not the country.
I apologize. Now I get your point. Yes, I agree completely. it must be terrible to witness all this profound indifference.

To Odette re # 146: Well said!

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Originally Posted by IRIS1983 View Post
If you look at the history of Greece will reach the obvious conclusion, Greece has never wanted a monarchy.
You may be right here.

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Greece becomes a State in the XIX century, they were occupied by the Turks, to liberalize of them and be a state, they needed financing for war, money, weapons, military support came from countries like Denmark
Greece's war of independence started in 1821. The revolution was supported by pre-eminent illuminati and funded by wealthy Greeks of the diaspora who formed a secret society, Philiki Etairia. When Greece became independent, the Greeks looked upon the Great Powers as saviours and accepted whatever they recommended for her, first Otto of Bavaria (1832), and later a Danish prince (1864). In other words, Greece had no choice and was doing everything to secure borders and expand territorially.
Insofar as money was concerned, Greece received loans but struggled to pay them off. Nothing was given to her for free.
Denmark was too small and too poor itself to be able to subsidize a new and impoverished nation. King George I, however, brought along, as a gift from queen Victoria, the Ionian Islands.

The events of the 20th century with the emergence of communism and the civil war following WWII are an entirely different story with its own perspective. The monarchy was restored with the plebiscite of 1936 and the post-exile referendum in 1946 mainly and mostly to preserve freedom and political stability, not necessarily for financial support.

Greece had chosen to be part of the Western World and, while it was surrounded by three communist countries, it had no option but to maintain the monarchy to symbolize her western orientation.
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  #152  
Old 11-13-2009, 06:20 AM
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they did not wanted the money of Britain to finance the war and to expel the Turks, they wanted that Britain didn´t acted , in contrast, if Britain had acted the entire island would be Britain today .
Second, Marshall plans can not be compared with the European Union, the European Union to be funded by taxes from all states menbers, while Marshall´s plans was loans of U.S to European countries for reconstruction as well as to attract financial investment ....Greece is repairing monuments with money from the European Union, and many other countries of the European Union .. All States member contribute to the European union, certain taxes paid in all territories of the EU are to finance the organization ...Your comparison is not accuraten.The monarchy was money when not need the money, monarchy was not necessary
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  #153  
Old 11-13-2009, 09:11 AM
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Iris I have a hard time following you. The thread is about monarchy in Greece. What could the EU, the Marshall Plan, Cyprus independence, Monarchy in Greece and restoration of monuments have in common?? Nothing.
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  #154  
Old 12-09-2009, 06:48 PM
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I have been in Greece for the last 5 months-
The Greek Royals are just not known by the younger generation. Most do not even know that WE had a Royal family until the 70s. The papers and the government have done a very good job in removing them from the minds of the people. Save in the North, there are still houses with portraits of the royal family next to the dinner table.

I do not see much hope for the Greek royals to come back to Greece in any capacity.


But they have been buying a lot of land Near Lefkada And there are plans for large EXCLUSIVE resort backed by the Jacob Rothschild
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  #155  
Old 12-11-2009, 09:39 AM
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it is true are very years with a negative vision of the monarchy. This is very difficult of change.The cementery of Tatoi is a reflection of historical oblivion, the persons buried here were Heads of State, they remain in oblivion
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  #156  
Old 12-11-2009, 10:06 AM
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Iris I believe you are wrong but you are entitled to your opinion...
I agre to ALL you said.
Monarchy in Greece has always been a scottish shower and you can not put all population and all Kings into the same basket.
The last King, was the less guilty but he has paid the price of his mother's action! (which were NOT all bad, but people has retained only her bad actions)
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  #157  
Old 12-30-2009, 01:32 PM
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..... The last King, was the less guilty but he has paid the price of his mother's action! (which were NOT all bad, but people has retained only her bad actions)
The unfortunate thing is that the King took some steps that were constitutional but not in line with public sentiment and defying the decisions of prime-minister George Papandreou who was, in fact, a centrist and genuinely friendly to the Palace. It was indeed tragic that the king followed the advice of the camarilla. Had he gone along with the wishes of George Papandreou, the Junta would have never taken place and Constantine, in all likelihood, would still be King.
How sad and how unfortunate!
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  #158  
Old 12-30-2009, 03:48 PM
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I am not agree with you, If Constantine would had followed to Papandreu, today he would be in London, Papandreu didn´t want to Constantine and the monarchy.

The monarchy was an obstacle to his claims
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  #159  
Old 12-30-2009, 08:30 PM
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George Papandreou the elder, although a centrist was not friendly to the Palace and he was confrontational and wished to put his stamp on the life of Greece. He was inciting the masses against the Palace.
The Junta would have happened whether the King had sided with Papandreou or not. The country was going towards the left and the US needed a right wing government to protect their interests in the area. President Clinton apologised to the Greeks for the US involvement and support of the Junta.
The King should have followed the advice of the Shah and King Hussein and should have landed in Athens the same day Karamanlis returned to accept the helm, after the second Junta government of Ioannides folded.
The King always said he agreed to flee to Rome rather than landing in Thessaloniki to avoid pitting the Royal Airforce and Royal Navy against the Army in 1967. He believed that Karamanlis was going to call him as soon as the dust settled in 1974.
The truth is that either due to immaturity, bad advice or a true concern for the country
King Constantine missed his chances to reign and the clock unfortunately cannot turn back.
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  #160  
Old 12-31-2009, 06:08 AM
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My opinion, I do not believe that Constantine should stay in Greece,because the Board of Coronoles enjoyed the support of foreign forces and not only the United States, other States
The Colonels had everything, money, international support ....... Constantine had nothing of that, he and the military loyal to the crown could not do anything .....
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