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  #21  
Old 03-21-2017, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
It will only get worse as the anniversary approaches and the Diana fanatics demand that everyone wears sackcloth and ashes and moans and groans about the passing of the Sainted One and that includes demonising Charles and Camilla as the Devil Incarnate.



Fortunately these days most intelligent people have figured out that Diana was the innocent she portrayed herself as and that Charles wasn't quite as evil as Diana would like us to believe.



However the Diana fanatics are a very vocal minority and insist that everyone sees the main players in the same way that they do rather than admit that they were wrong in their interpretation Diana.


Really is there any need to use language like that . You can have your views of Diana without being rude to others who don't share your view. If you dislike her and as you say it's 20 years why can't you let it go too
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  #22  
Old 03-21-2017, 02:30 AM
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Oh please, are we back in 1992 ?
And still 6 months to go ...
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Originally Posted by Daenerys Targaryen View Post
I understand that you have strong opinions on this subject, but I think this might be an overstatement.
No Nico, it's not the 1992 separation but the 20th anniversary of the death of Diana that will give rise to this sort of OTT rubbish.

Daenerys Targaryen, you may find Iluvbertie's statement strong but really, after the marriage ended in 1992, are we not all overdue for a little sanity. And here's yet another story . . . Diana smacking Charles around the swede every time he knelt to pray. Really?
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  #23  
Old 03-21-2017, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Katrianna View Post
Judging by the DM article, I'm not too impressed and don't plan to read it. Nothing new indeed.


The Kirkus review was really good though, and I can't imagine the Daily Mail choosing to excerpt the complicated parts or anything that didn't focus on salacious derails. I've liked her other books so I'm going to read it.
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  #24  
Old 03-21-2017, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Katrianna View Post
Judging by the DM article, I'm not too impressed and don't plan to read it. Nothing new indeed.
It's the DM, I personally don't place too much stock in what they say. SBS's biography of the queen was very good and although her Diana biography was flawed (to say the least) it was still one of the first attempts at a critical look at Diana in the round, and personally I didn't think it was too bad - Sarah Bradford had good things to say of it and that's a good endorsement as far as I'm concerned. The other non-DM reviews have said that there's a lot more about his public activities as PoW and its much broader than the "Chuck 'n Di" show it's made out as being, as well as a look at his approach to being king when the time comes, SBS has contacts and the palace regard her as a safe pair of hands following her queen biography so from what I've heard she can go further than Catherine Meyer's 2015 book was able to.

I, for one, am keen to read it.

Edit: I need to clarify about the SBS bio of Diana, although SBS shouldn't have tried to posthumously diagnose Diana as it's very poor journalism ethics unless you have supporting evidence from medical records and expert opinion, it wasn't the worst bio on aher and some of SBS's observations I felt were valid and worth taking into consideration.

I do wonder how much of the reaction to the idea that Diana was BPD - an idea that was given serious consideration in her own lifetime by some who knew her and a number of experts - has to do with the sigma of personality disorders and how much with the presumption of diagnosis at a distance (see the Goldwater rule).

(Just for the record - I don't think D was BPD)
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  #25  
Old 03-21-2017, 02:34 PM
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I read SBS's biography of the late Princess of Wales years ago. I was concerned that she seemed to make a diagnosis of borderline personality disorder on a woman she never treated-indeed she has no MD or psychiatric training at all.

By Bedell's own admission only met the late princess once in the 90's during a visit to Martha's Vineyard.

Now she rehashes almost the identical comments and phrases in this new study of Prince Charles that she used in her Diana bio.

She admitted(in the forward to the Diana book) that she was disappointed when Diana sort of blew her off on Martha's Vineyard during that 1990's meeting. If only Diana had been a little friendlier we might have all been spared this continuing post mortem armchair analysis of the late princess as a certifiable nut case.
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  #26  
Old 03-22-2017, 01:06 AM
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What dismays me is that so much has been written about Charles, Diana and Camilla, that there's very little "new" information about the relationship, marriage and divorce, and with Camilla's role. All that come bash Charles, Diana, or Charles and Camilla. It's an endless line of taking advantage of events such as the 20th anniversary of Diana's death. The press also takes advantage of the situation by plugging the books as containing "shocking new facts" when there is not that much to write about except one incident that happened that may not have been reported before. It's an endless circle that after 36 yr. there's nothing new to discuss. Everyone has their argument for or against C/C/D.
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  #27  
Old 03-22-2017, 01:44 AM
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Yes, I do agree that it was very irresponsible of Bedell Smith with no medical training at all to make a diagnosis of borderline personality disorder with regard to Diana. As a fan of Diana's though, I never felt there were gratuitous digs at her in the book as I have noticed with Penny Junor, for example.

Moonmaiden quote
She admitted(in the forward to the Diana book) that she was disappointed when Diana sort of blew her off on Martha's Vineyard during that 1990's meeting. If only Diana had been a little friendlier we might have all been spared this continuing post mortem armchair analysis of the late princess as a certifiable nut case.
End Quote __________________

On the other hand, MoonMaiden, Tina Brown, in her biography of Diana, made rather a lot of Charles cracking his knuckles and seeming anguished when she met him in the US.

I suppose all authors of biographies of royals seek for a hook on which to hang their book, some personal anecdote, especially with such well-worn ground as the Wales marriage. Nevertheless, Borderline misdiagnosis excepted, I do like Sally Bedell Smith's style of writing and I have the new biography of Charles on pre order on Kindle.
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  #28  
Old 03-22-2017, 09:45 AM
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I agree that Bedell-Smith is an easy, engaging read Curryong. I flew through her Diana book in a couple of days.

I also agree about Penny Junor's gratuitous digs at Diana. The woman appalls me. I won't have anything to do with her books anymore.
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  #29  
Old 03-31-2017, 05:46 PM
eya eya is offline
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"How Diana's emotional instability sent Charles into therapy for 14 years: Eminent royal biographer claims Prince was in a 'terrible trap' after his 'tormented' wife refused help and continually sparked rows even when he was trying to pray.
The couple were already facing difficulty when they honeymooned at Balmoral. The princess was prescribed Valium but she refused to take it, convinced the family were trying to sedate her."

How Diana's instability sent Prince Charles into therapy | Daily Mail Online
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  #30  
Old 03-31-2017, 06:25 PM
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These snippets in the DM article seem terribly unbalanced, and full of statements by Charles's relatives and friends, including some who have already stated publicly that they disliked Diana. Pamela Hicks has even complained about Diana sending Charles for her handbag when she first met her. Where are Diana's friends? They're certainly not quoted here. These extracts almost make Charles appear a saintly martyr in charge of a 'mad' wife. I want to be fair, which is why I've pre-ordered this book but this all reads like a Junor piece. I hope the DM are just cherry picking.
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  #31  
Old 03-31-2017, 07:16 PM
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Amen. As if being barely out of ones' teens and married to a man whom you have suspected from the beginning is in love with another woman is not enough of a reason for "instability".

I do wish the DM would provide some opposing views in the name of balance if nothing else, but knowing who the author is does not give me hope...Junor and Bedell-Smith are cut out of the same cloth when it comes to the Wales marriage and Diana's culpability in it's ultimate failure.
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  #32  
Old 03-31-2017, 07:40 PM
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People really need to stop trying to rewrite this saga. It's all done for money, but it's all tiring now. It's time to leave this stuff in the past.
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  #33  
Old 03-31-2017, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by eya View Post
"How Diana's emotional instability sent Charles into therapy for 14 years: Eminent royal biographer claims Prince was in a 'terrible trap' after his 'tormented' wife refused help and continually sparked rows even when he was trying to pray. The couple were already facing difficulty when they honeymooned at Balmoral. The princess was prescribed Valium but she refused to take it, convinced the family were trying to sedate her."

How Diana's instability sent Prince Charles into therapy | Daily Mail Online
Engrossing read, pretty much on a par with what I have read over the years. IMHO it is even-handed in giving Charles' experience. We all know what Diana said. Her spin on the whole marriage is legend and what has usually been held up as 'fact'. Now we have some other 'facts' to make a whole. Sounds about right to me.
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  #34  
Old 03-31-2017, 07:49 PM
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There we will have to agree to disagree. I found that article distinctly uneven-handed and unbalanced. Not all fault was on Diana's side by any means. However I believe it is the DM cherry picking and stirring the pot as usual. I look forward to reading the entire book.
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  #35  
Old 03-31-2017, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
Engrossing read, pretty much on a par with what I have read over the years. IMHO it is even-handed in giving Charles' experience. We all know what Diana said. Her spin on the whole marriage is legend and what has usually been held up as 'fact'. Now we have some other 'facts' to make a whole. Sounds about right to me.
Over the years people have tried to rewrite the story about the Wales time and time again. It's been pretty much about money and putting their own take on the saga. Once someone can think of another twist and narrative, another book will be written.
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  #36  
Old 03-31-2017, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
People really need to stop trying to rewrite this saga. It's all done for money, but it's all tiring now. It's time to leave this stuff in the past.
I couldn't agree more! Until/unless there is new verifiable information, the whole story has been told time & time again, and at this point is tiring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
There we will have to agree to disagree. I found that article distinctly uneven-handed and unbalanced. Not all fault was on Diana's side by any means. However I believe it is the DM cherry picking and stirring the pot as usual. I look forward to reading the entire book.
I am not Lady Nimue, but I think her point was that Diana's version of the story has been canon for the past 2.5 decades. The DM article, and maybe the entire book, may be more favorable to Charles, but perhaps put together with Diana’s version, will present a more complete, balanced story.

Honestly, I think the whole truth lies somewhere in the middle, but mileage varies.

Lady N - I hope I have interpreted your post accurately.

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  #37  
Old 03-31-2017, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
Engrossing read, pretty much on a par with what I have read over the years. IMHO it is even-handed in giving Charles' experience. We all know what Diana said. Her spin on the whole marriage is legend and what has usually been held up as 'fact'. Now we have some other 'facts' to make a whole. Sounds about right to me.
Hear ! Hear ! It's about time for some balance indeed.
The Morton book is still seen as the untouchable and one sided truth and now, surprise, surprise, some authors are trying to put some grain of salt in that mythology. I say well done !
Enough with the double standard.
Of course it will be crass, one sided, unbalanced and unfair. FOR ONCE i would say. For decades we had ad nauseam the same crass, one sided, unbalanced and unfair story about the victim Princess vs the aloof Prince.
At the end is this kind of litterature useful ? To be honnest i don't think so, because i guess the truth is somewhere in between the two versions.
BUT i can't wait to see the usual brigade forming the ranks and screaming scandal . NOW that's entertaining !
And yes it's official, we are a back in 1992 ...
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  #38  
Old 03-31-2017, 10:16 PM
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I am not Lady Nimue, but I think her point was that Diana's version of the story has been canon for the past 2.5 decades. The DM article, and maybe the entire book, may be more favorable to Charles, but perhaps put together with Diana’s version, will present a more complete, balanced story.

Honestly, I think the whole truth lies somewhere in the middle, but mileage varies.

Lady N - I hope I have interpreted your post accurately.

Yes, you have, QueenPenny. Thank you.
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  #39  
Old 03-31-2017, 10:42 PM
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How this woman can sleep at night writing these books on famous people like the queen and prince charles, kennedys,etc. just so money grubbing and all she comes up with is some kind of pastiche.
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  #40  
Old 03-31-2017, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Frelinghighness View Post
How this woman can sleep at night writing these books on famous people like the queen and prince charles, kennedys,etc. just so money grubbing and all she comes up with is some kind of pastiche.
Her books are well-sourced. I would imagine she sleeps very well since she brings a great deal of clarity to muddy waters imo.

Was Diana's Morton book a pastiche? Just wondering.

This is an example of what Bedell Smith clarifies: Diana claimed she was a lamb to the slaughter, among other things. Would you not want to know what people present at the time saw? Consider these sourced quotes -

Quote:
Diana first came sharply into the Prince’s focus during a Sussex house-party weekend in July 1980. Another guest, Charles’s former girlfriend Sabrina Guinness, recalled: ‘She was giggling, looking up at him . . . furiously trying to make an impression.’

Charles then invited Diana to join him aboard the royal yacht Britannia for the annual Cowes regatta in early August.

His ever-vigilant valet, Stephen Barry, observed that she ‘went after the Prince with single-minded determination. She wanted him and she got him.’ The following month, Diana went deer-stalking with Charles, getting covered in mud, and ‘laughing her head off’ in a rainstorm, according to the Prince’s friend, Patti Palmer-Tomkinson.

[...]

As he dithered over whether to propose, three friends voiced their misgivings. Penny Romsey, the wife of Mountbatten’s grandson Norton, cautioned the Prince that he and his new girlfriend had little in common; she also questioned whether Diana’s feelings for him were genuine.

Diana appeared to be ‘auditioning for a central role in a costume drama’ she said — and, much to Charles’s anger, Penny’s husband seconded her concerns.
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