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  #461  
Old 08-15-2008, 03:01 PM
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You can not possibly deliver an honest account of something without having personal knowledge of it.

That's like me saying I know how to be a surgeon, I've read all about it. Ridiculous.
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  #462  
Old 08-15-2008, 05:40 PM
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You can not possibly deliver an honest account of something without having personal knowledge of it.

That's like me saying I know how to be a surgeon, I've read all about it. Ridiculous.
I don't know if I actually agree with this statement. Many books have been written about dead people using only other books and news articles plus family letters on the subject person. I love history and have read many biographical books that are so well written that even colleges are accepting them. There is one on Harry Truman and another on Benjamin Franklin that was written years after their deaths and accepted as college history reading.
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  #463  
Old 08-15-2008, 06:16 PM
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Many books have been written about dead people using only other books and news articles plus family letters on the subject person.
True - and if these books are based on scientific studies - the sources are outlined, which makes it possible for the reader not only to check the reliabiliy of the book but also to immerse further into the subject.

Not providing sources will alwayes either leave a question of doubt regarding credibility, or a question about whether the author are seeking acknowledgment for the findings of others.

If Villeman had outlined her sources I am sure many of the questions and statements presented on this thread never would have been put forward.
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  #464  
Old 08-15-2008, 08:24 PM
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Uh Wow!!

It only took six posts for members to, once again, insult one another.

Come on, people!! If you cannot listen nor read what Norwegianne and I have stated on the previous page -- that means page 23 -- and you feel as if you cannot control your temper DO NOT post in this topic.

Anymore insults, flames, and overall dogpiling towards your fellow members and this topic will be closed.

Capiche?


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  #465  
Old 08-16-2008, 05:52 AM
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Of course my book is an honest account of the personalities currently inhabiting the Danish Royal House. I know many people would just like my book to go away, but it has become a defining book on the Danish Royal Family in our time because it is independent and realistic. The pink lenses, through which the Danish Royal family is mostly iewed, were removed for this book. As for my anonymous sources. Well, not all of my sources are anonymous. - which you would know, if you had read 1015! This morning I had a lovely PM from a member of this forum. The person has read my book and enjoyed it. The member also said in the PM that her/she - after having read my book- understood why my sources had to remain nameless. It was my biggest concern about the whole project, but I still fail to seee why resepected newspapers like IHT, NY Times etc. etc. can use anonymous sources, without anyone howling at them, but I can't. I did not invent the use of anonymous sources. It is a tool a journalist uses in order to get to the truth.
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  #466  
Old 08-16-2008, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
Apart from producing heirs, I would say that turning your husband into a king is the primary function for any Crown Princess. Usually these crown princes become much more secure and grounded once they have a wife and a family - look at Norway's Haakon! - but in Frederik's case this has not happened. Royal history has many examples of strong wifes, who have moulded their husbands into good kings. At this very moment, I can only think of the late Queen Ingrid, whom I studied a lot for 1015. The more I got to know her, the more I understood why she is called "The creator of the modern Danish monarchy." She was unique, not always pleasant, but she saw the problems and she dealt with them. She was not afraid to take control, when it was needed and she - I would say almost singlehandedly, but not quite - brought about the change in the succession that led to Margrethe being Queen of Denmark today. Had old Frederik IX just been allowed to potter around, I doubt very much that Denmark would have had a royal family today. I don't envy CP Mary, but this is the kind of work she needs to do with her Frederik. Take control, mould him, steer him, whatever- because if CP Frederik is left to his own devices,IMO, Christian will never be king.
Why won't Frederik give up his place in the line of succession for the throne if he doesn't want to become King of Denmark? I don't think It's impossible that Joachim will be the Crown Prince or someone else from relatives. There were numerous examples in history. Why wouldn't they change? Frederik knows exactly that a crown prince has many obligations. If he doesn't like pressure, he won't want Christian to suffer as well.
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  #467  
Old 08-16-2008, 06:36 AM
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Frederik feels bound by his duty. He also likes the perks that come with the title. Personally I feel that we are breaching these royals' human right by preventing them from doing, what they want to do. As Frederik once told a friend: " If I had a choice, I would like to just be a dude and have a bar on a beach somewhere." I think there should be a way out for Frederik and his fellow royals. Prince Joachim's personality contains all the elements of a great royal,IMO, but the Danes don't really care very much for Joachim. And even less after they were left to pay his alimony for his ex-wife!
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  #468  
Old 08-16-2008, 07:16 AM
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I think it would be the experience of every young heir or heiress to a throne to have doubts, and to voice those doubts to confidantes. There must come a time when there's a dawning realisation, and sense of dread, that their life is not their own, that decisions wil be made for them, that they carry the weight of expectation, tradition and dynastic history on their shoulders. Most young people in this position, royal or tycoon's son or daughter, would ask "why do I have to do this?" At some stage they become resigned to their "fate", and get on with what they have to do. The burden of other people's expectations must be daunting, and not everyone is filled with boundless self-confidence of their own abilities and talents. Nonetheless, not that many crown princes or princesses fall by the wayside. Maybe the mystique works both ways and instils some sense of the "royal stuff" into those destined for such elite public office.

Which ties in with something else I've often wondered. At some stage Mary Donaldson would have seen her relationship with Frederik not just in terms of serious boyfriend-girlfriend, or lovers, but as something much more serious. At some point Mary had to think of the possible consequences of continuing the relationship, and at a critical moment in her own mind she would have said to herself "I can do this. I can be a successful Queen Consort of Denmark". We'll never know of course exactly how she came to a confident acceptance of this future, but it's such a critical turning point in terms of self-belief that I'd be interested in hearing from Trine if she knows anything as to how Mary faced the issue or came to believe that she was up to the task.
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  #469  
Old 08-16-2008, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Warren View Post
I think it would be the experience of every young heir or heiress to a throne to have doubts, and to voice those doubts to confidantes. There must come a time when there's a dawning realisation, and sense of dread, that their life is not their own, that decisions wil be made for them, that they carry the weight of expectation, tradition and dynastic history on their shoulders. Most young people in this position, royal or tycoon's son or daughter, would ask "why do I have to do this?" At some stage they become resigned to their "fate", and get on with what they have to do. The burden of other people's expectations must be daunting, and not everyone is filled with boundless self-confidence of their own abilities and talents. Nonetheless, not that many crown princes or princesses fall by the wayside. Maybe the mystique works both ways and instils some sense of the "royal stuff" into those destined for such elite public office.

Which ties in with something else I've often wondered. At some stage Mary Donaldson would have seen her relationship with Frederik not just in terms of serious boyfriend-girlfriend, or lovers, but as something much more serious. At some point Mary had to think of the possible consequences of continuing the relationship, and at a critical moment in her own mind she would have said to herself "I can do this. I can be a successful Queen Consort of Denmark". We'll never know of course exactly how she came to a confident acceptance of this future, but it's such a critical turning point in terms of self-belief that I'd be interested in hearing from Trine if she knows anything as to how Mary faced the issue or came to believe that she was up to the task.
CP Mary,IMO, went for the prince and fell in love with the man. There is nothing wrong in that, but based on my information CP Mary was very aware from early on that her boyfriend was not like the rest of us. Crunch time, as far as I am aware, came when she left Australia. First stop was Paris, which she didn't like much, so when the decision was made - by her and CP Frederik - for Mary to move to Denmark, she had made up mind that she wanted the prince and the kingdom. She faced that monumental decision with enourmous courage, I think, because by then there was no proposal on the table, yet Mary went ahead and started educating herself by learning Danish and reading up on Danish history. I know she from time to time despaired because there was no firm commitment from Frederik, but she suffered her "Kate Middleton-moment" with great dignity,IMO. To the best of my knowledge, Mary never seriously doubted, she could do the job - perhaps because she really did not understand the enormity of it. That insight came later - I am told.
I agree on your views about the burden of expectations. It is exactly was is crushing CP Frederik. He just can not handle it. The palace is very reluctant to speak about these issues - even off the record - but it is my understanding that CP Frederik is receiving some kind of coaching in order to relax a bit more when he is faced with cameras, microphones and lots of questions. I noticed in Beijing that he was a bit more coherent than usual, when he held his press conference, which just goes to prove that these problems can be overcome - if they are addressed!
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  #470  
Old 08-16-2008, 08:37 AM
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but the Danes don't really care very much for Joachim. And even less after they were left to pay his alimony for his ex-wife!
You can speak only on behalf of yourselfe. Not on behalf of an intire nation. When making statsment like the above quoted yau can only write:

"I don't really................"

To the best of my knowledge the Danes hasn't elected anybody to be spoksmen for them regarding TRF. Not you nor anybody else.

You are perfectly intitled to espress your oppinion. But you can not speak on behalf of me nor the rest of Denmark.
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  #471  
Old 08-16-2008, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Lilla View Post
You can speak only on behalf of yourselfe. Not on behalf of an intire nation. When making statsment like the above quoted yau can only write:

"I don't really................"

To the best of my knowledge the Danes hasn't elected anybody to be spoksmen for them regarding TRF. Not you nor anybody else.

You are perfectly intitled to espress your oppinion. But you can not speak on behalf of me nor the rest of Denmark.
I think it is very obvious to everybody ( well, almost everybody) on this thread about MY book, that I am expressing MY views.
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  #472  
Old 08-16-2008, 09:13 AM
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I think it is very obvious to everybody ( well, almost everybody) on this thread about MY book, that I am expressing MY views.
And nobody is denieing you the right to do so as long as you keep it there. Don't involve the rest of Denmark as though all danes concur with you - because that you don't know.
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  #473  
Old 08-16-2008, 09:21 AM
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There is a capital IMO right in the middle of that Joachim sentence you are referring too. Now, what else can I do, apart from not having written a book, that seems to upset you. Can we discuss 1015, PLEASE!
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  #474  
Old 08-16-2008, 09:28 AM
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Yes, can we please move on. Trine's opinions are hers; some will agree and some will disagree. Lets' have a constructive discussion where we may be able to further our understanding of the Danish Royal House and have an intelligent debate on what the future may or may not hold.

thanks.
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  #475  
Old 08-16-2008, 09:56 AM
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The NY Times and IHT and other WELL ESTABLISHED publications can use anonymous sources occasionally and more often because they have a long history of publishing the truth, have often named their sources, and would like to keep the reputation of being an honest truthful publications, therefore they are not likely to deceive their readership. I'm sorry, but I don't think that you can compare your book to the NY Times, or other well established publications. They have YEARS of reporting behind them, and their sources are generally impeccable. They don't write whole diatribes or newspapers or books filled with unnamed sources. At times yes, but they do try to avoid it.

Furthermore, the NY Times, IHT, Washington Post, etc have editorial boards through which the "anonymous sources" must be verifiable. Each anonymous source statement must be backed up by documentation and/or another verifiable source, before an anonymous source story may be used. If you would like proof of this manner of doing things, I would be more than happy to provide you with verifiable documentation/ verifiable source.
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  #476  
Old 08-16-2008, 10:13 AM
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Frederik feels bound by his duty. He also likes the perks that come with the title. Personally I feel that we are breaching these royals' human right by preventing them from doing, what they want to do. As Frederik once told a friend: " If I had a choice, I would like to just be a dude and have a bar on a beach somewhere." I think there should be a way out for Frederik and his fellow royals. Prince Joachim's personality contains all the elements of a great royal,IMO, but the Danes don't really care very much for Joachim. And even less after they were left to pay his alimony for his ex-wife!

Who could be a Crown Prince/King of Denmark except Frederik, Joachim and their sons? Is it possible that a distant relative has a right the line of succession to the Danish throne?
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  #477  
Old 08-16-2008, 11:03 AM
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Who could be a Crown Prince/King of Denmark except Frederik, Joachim and their sons? Is it possible that a distant relative has a right the line of succession to the Danish throne?
Well, if you end up without either Joachim or Frederik and their successors, the next in line is Princess Benedikte. And then we end up in a debate whether or not her children are in line to the throne or not - did Alexandra and Nathalie fulfill the statutes set out when Benedikte and Richard married or not? - and if not that… we're looking at Princess Elisabeth, who is the last in line and doesn't have any children. No King Ralph () situation for Denmark, I'm afraid.

The Danish succession can be discussed in the Danish forum
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  #478  
Old 08-16-2008, 11:06 AM
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Prince Joachim's personality contains all the elements of a great royal,IMO, but the Danes don't really care very much for Joachim.
To me this sounds contradictory.
If - according to you - the Danes don't care much for Joachim then I don't quite see that "his personality contains all the elements of a great royal".
IMO a great royal nowadays is one who is able to connect with the people on an emotional, a human level, to win their hearts, so to speak. Frederik - with all his lacking eloquence - seems able to do that, he is constantly topping lists of the most popular Danes. Joachim - with all his qualities - it seems is not. (But he is of course much more forthcoming towards the media, which might be the reason why some media people think he would make a better king. )
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  #479  
Old 08-16-2008, 12:55 PM
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I am honestly also wondering, how Mary should make a better Crown Prince or even King out of Frederik??
Firstly he does need to want that self, secondly I don´t think, that´s the way they had set up their relationship.
They are no June Carter & Johnny Cash couple. I am seeing them more as some kind of buddies, as fun-loving couple. Yes, as owner of a beach bar, I can perfectly picture Frederik if he would be a "Pedersen" or "Smith". He would work there, while Mary would follow her office job in the city. In their spare time they would follow activities with other couples or outings among girlfriends or beer buddies. Lots of independence and though together. Perfect for "no-names", but IMO not for a public job together.
More than 4 years went by since the wedding...and I don´t see this ever changing really.

But I am actually not sure, if a change is needed...and if the Monarchy is so much in danger indeed.
Is there any example in history of a Monarchy vanishing, where the ppl had felt as unity, had been in peace with other folks and had been in the majority wealthy??
So I guess the difference would be rather, if Frederik would be respected or if he would be some kind of laughing stock and "comfort" for those, who e.g. have no great rhetorical skills either.
The decision "Monarchy or Republic" is far more one of politics and economy...and there Frederik has - thanks god- no or only minimal say...
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  #480  
Old 08-16-2008, 02:20 PM
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So I guess the difference would be rather, if Frederik would be respected or if he would be some kind of laughing stock and "comfort" for those, who e.g. have no great rhetorical skills either.
Thank you very much Lena!

As a shy person myself (like Frederik), I just love it beeing called a laughing stock. No, for shy people it's not a "comfort" if one of "us" is called a laughing stock. Having problems with expressing oneself in public is just one of "our" problems. Guess how many "we" are.

Sadly I'm sure this message will be very soon deleted.
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