The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > Royal House of Sweden > Prince Carl Philip

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #221  
Old 04-05-2011, 03:08 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: alpine village, Germany
Posts: 1,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esmerelda View Post
Didn't the original law specifically forbid marriage with Swedish commoners? Although in those days, the King would probably not have given his consent to a marriage with a foreign commoner so I guess it amounts to 'no commoners' after all.
IIRC Karl XIV. Johan (Bernadotte) was elected to become the Crown prince and heir to Sweden bei the Riksdag but once he was king he tried rather successfully to cut back the influence of the Swedish nobility and people on his decisions. Having been a liberal and revolutionary in his younger years, he became more and more of an autocrat with extremly conservative opinions.

So for him, any marriage of his elected dynasty was of utmost importance when it came to secure the future of the Bernadottes. They needed as much Royal blood from the mothers side in future kings and princes as possible to make up for the lack of their blood.

When Oscar I. married Josephine of Leuchtenberg, it was clearly a triumph for the Bernadotte, as she was a sister of the empress of Brazil, sister-in-law of the queen of Portugal, niece of the King of Bavaria and the queens of Prussia, Wuerttemberg and Saxony and the empress of Franz I. of Austria and a first cousin to emperor Franz Joseph, his empress Elisabeth, the queen of Naples, the emperor of Mexico and of king Albert of Saxony, who had married the last Wasa of Sweden-princess Carola.

On her father's side she was a first cousin of emperor Napoleon III, of France, whose mother Hortense de Beauharnais was her father's sister.
Thus Karl's son Oscar I. could call most of the European monarchs "cousin" while his sons Karl XV. and Oskar II. already were blood relations.
So Karl XIV. Johan's act of succession surely made sense once.

But: The change of the act of succession in Sweden meant the change of a law from the 1800s and was thus surely necessary as Sweden is such a modern country.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #222  
Old 04-05-2011, 10:52 AM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eve2Eden View Post
...Does anyone have more information about the exact timing of the different steps taken to change the succession? I get the impression that the change was already being considered when Victoria was born, and that the new law had in fact been passed by the time Carl Philip was born, but did not officially take effect until he was 7 months old. ...
Not the exact dates, but to change a Swedish "grundlag" (similar to the constitution) either a referandum need to be called to ratify the Parlaments vote or the parlament have to take it a second time with a general election between the votes (so the voters can stop any untowards cahnge of it), so they parlament toke the first vote well before Carl Phillipe was born, and the second among the first thing they done when called in after the general election.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eve2Eden View Post
...
I've always wondered why, if he knew the change was coming, the King got as worked up as he did about Carl Philip being displaced...
He wasn't exactly worked up. The reporter had to drag it out of him what his peronal preference was regarding the Succession.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #223  
Old 04-06-2011, 05:26 AM
Furienna's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Örnsköldsvik, Sweden
Posts: 1,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esmerelda View Post
Didn't the original law specifically forbid marriage with Swedish commoners? Although in those days, the King would probably not have given his consent to a marriage with a foreign commoner so I guess it amounts to 'no commoners' after all.
Prince Sigvard married a Polish-German woman, and he lost his status. Lilian Craig was British, but prince Bertil wasn't allowed to marry her until 1976. Indeed, Carl XVI might not have been allowed to marry Silvia, who was German-Brazilian, if he "only" had been a prince. So no, this wasn't just about Swedish commoners, but all commoners.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #224  
Old 04-06-2011, 05:46 AM
Furienna's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Örnsköldsvik, Sweden
Posts: 1,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
IIRC Karl XIV. Johan (Bernadotte) was elected to become the Crown prince and heir to Sweden bei the Riksdag but once he was king he tried rather successfully to cut back the influence of the Swedish nobility and people on his decisions. Having been a liberal and revolutionary in his younger years, he became more and more of an autocrat with extremly conservative opinions.

So for him, any marriage of his elected dynasty was of utmost importance when it came to secure the future of the Bernadottes. They needed as much Royal blood from the mothers side in future kings and princes as possible to make up for the lack of their blood.

When Oscar I. married Josephine of Leuchtenberg, it was clearly a triumph for the Bernadotte, as she was a sister of the empress of Brazil, sister-in-law of the queen of Portugal, niece of the King of Bavaria and the queens of Prussia, Wuerttemberg and Saxony and the empress of Franz I. of Austria and a first cousin to emperor Franz Joseph, his empress Elisabeth, the queen of Naples, the emperor of Mexico and of king Albert of Saxony, who had married the last Wasa of Sweden-princess Carola.

On her father's side she was a first cousin of emperor Napoleon III, of France, whose mother Hortense de Beauharnais was her father's sister.
Thus Karl's son Oscar I. could call most of the European monarchs "cousin" while his sons Karl XV. and Oskar II. already were blood relations.
So Karl XIV. Johan's act of succession surely made sense once.

But: The change of the act of succession in Sweden meant the change of a law from the 1800s and was thus surely necessary as Sweden is such a modern country.
Yeah, Carl XIV Johan did everything to secure his thrown and make his family as royal as possible. And I can maybe even understand Oscar I (who hadn't been born a royal either) thinking this way. But I don't see any benefit in throwing five princes from later generations (prince Oscar, prince Lennart, prince Sigvard, prince Carl jr and prince Carl Johan) out of the sucession and stripping them of their royal status, especially since at least two of them married aristocrats.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #225  
Old 06-16-2011, 01:16 AM
NotHRH's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Gonzales, Louisiana, United States
Posts: 263
Equal primogeniture

I recollect reading that HM King Carl XVI Gustaf was not happy when his son, HRH Prince Carl Philip, was placed behind his first-born child, HRH (now Crown) Princess Victoria. Has this ever caused any friction between father and daughter? Why was HM not happy when the royal succession was changed in Sweden? Has HM ever state his current emotion regarding equal primogeniture? Does HM believe his eldest child is now capable of being the future Queen of Sweden in her own right? Why was HM not happy about the new law at the time?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #226  
Old 06-16-2011, 01:48 AM
IloveCP's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Palm Springs, United States
Posts: 4,837
I think the reason why the King was not happy with the law was beacause,CP was born a Crown Prince,and maybe he does not want his son look back and see that he lost he position in a matter of months.

But I think the king is proud of his daughter and knows she will make a good queen.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #227  
Old 06-16-2011, 04:50 AM
Iva's Avatar
Iva Iva is offline
Courtier
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: -, Slovakia
Posts: 509
The reason was that there was already a male heir born when the succession changed and also the King did think that the job was too heavy for a girl.

I think he stated lately that Victoria is more ready to become a Queen than he ever was.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #228  
Old 06-16-2011, 06:32 AM
IloveCP's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Palm Springs, United States
Posts: 4,837
"Too heavy for a girl"?Did he state that?If he did that would make him look a little sexist,even though there were three women who ruled sweden before.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #229  
Old 06-16-2011, 03:46 PM
mattep74's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vasteras, Sweden
Posts: 456
From what i understand he mainly objected to the law beeing inforced in retrospect instead of doing like in Norway where they changed the law and the one beeing cronwprince stayed it.
__________________
-------------------------------------------------
"My feelings are all over the place." Prince Daniel express his feelings after announcing the birth of his daughter Estelle Silvia Ewa Mary
Reply With Quote
  #230  
Old 06-16-2011, 04:21 PM
KittyAtlanta's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: KittyLand Junction, United States
Posts: 2,734
Heck, even I object to the way equal primo was introduced into Sweden. I know I'd be mad as hockey sticks if I knew that I had been born a CP, but the government changed the rules. Perhaps this will explain why the dear boy seems to exhibit his devil-may-care attitude toward his life.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #231  
Old 06-16-2011, 05:24 PM
NotHRH's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Gonzales, Louisiana, United States
Posts: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta
Heck, even I object to the way equal primo was introduced into Sweden. I know I'd be mad as hockey sticks if I knew that I had been born a CP, but the government changed the rules. Perhaps this will explain why the dear boy seems to exhibit his devil-may-care attitude toward his life.

MsKitty in Atlanta,
I believe actually that HRH Prince CP of Sweden, with his devil-may-care attitude, is simply reaping the benefits of royal life. As he seems to not have ambitions for his life, he probably thanks GOD above that he is not Sweden's crown prince. Many in Sweden look forward to HRH Crown Princess Victoria assuming her destined fate as the Queen of Sweden. If CP was the CP of Sweden, many would not look forward to his future as the monarch of Sweden! Everything happens for a reason - it was just not meant to be. There is a lot to be said for Devine intervention!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #232  
Old 06-16-2011, 05:40 PM
KittyAtlanta's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: KittyLand Junction, United States
Posts: 2,734
He might have been a different man were he still CPCP.

I'm a big fan of V, tho.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #233  
Old 06-16-2011, 05:47 PM
maria-olivia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 2,024
When Princess Victoria was born perhaps at that moment HM thought she would not have more children ?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #234  
Old 06-16-2011, 06:22 PM
NotHRH's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Gonzales, Louisiana, United States
Posts: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia
When Princess Victoria was born perhaps at that moment HM thought she would not have more children ?

I am not sure if I correctly understand your question. Actually, the law of equal primogeniture in Sweden was made after HM's second child, HRH (Crown) Prince Carl-Philip was a few months old. This law was retrospective to allow the then 2 year-old HRH Victoria to have the style she still has until this day.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #235  
Old 06-16-2011, 06:29 PM
NotHRH's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Gonzales, Louisiana, United States
Posts: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta
He might have been a different man were he still CPCP.

I'm a big fan of V, tho.

Even though I do not agree, I do respect your what-coulda-been position! :-D
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #236  
Old 06-16-2011, 06:44 PM
Mia_mae's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SP, Brazil
Posts: 1,092
Prince Carl Phillip isn't feeling sorry for his 2nd place. It sure doesn't look like it! He gets the advantages and none of the bigger responsibilities.
They could not have asked for a better heir than Victoria. Well I'll let the current status of the Royal House'issues talk for themselves.
__________________
There's not much of a difference between a stadium full of cheering fans and an angry crowd screaming abuse at you. They're both just making a lot of noise. How you take it is up to you. Convince yourself they're cheering for you. You do that, and someday, they will - Sue S.
Reply With Quote
  #237  
Old 06-16-2011, 11:38 PM
HRHofNothing's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: somewhere in, Canada
Posts: 208
I think deep down Carl-Philip does harbor some resentment towards Victoria for the change. His recent behavior indicates that he does not care much if the Monarchy in Sweden was abolished. While he may not be actively working towards this, deep down he may feel "serves right" if this were to happen
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #238  
Old 06-17-2011, 12:06 AM
Mia_mae's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SP, Brazil
Posts: 1,092
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHofNothing View Post
I think deep down Carl-Philip does harbor some resentment towards Victoria for the change. His recent behavior indicates that he does not care much if the Monarchy in Sweden was abolished. While he may not be actively working towards this, deep down he may feel "serves right" if this were to happen
If true, not saying it is, but if true that would just prove even more that Sweden is better off with Victoria.
__________________
There's not much of a difference between a stadium full of cheering fans and an angry crowd screaming abuse at you. They're both just making a lot of noise. How you take it is up to you. Convince yourself they're cheering for you. You do that, and someday, they will - Sue S.
Reply With Quote
  #239  
Old 06-17-2011, 07:44 AM
Iva's Avatar
Iva Iva is offline
Courtier
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: -, Slovakia
Posts: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHofNothing View Post
I think deep down Carl-Philip does harbor some resentment towards Victoria for the change. His recent behavior indicates that he does not care much if the Monarchy in Sweden was abolished. While he may not be actively working towards this, deep down he may feel "serves right" if this were to happen
Sorry, I don't agree. I don't think Carl Philip would ever want to be a Crown Prince in first place. He just resembles his father way too much. He is enjoying what his father never could have, relativly bigger freedom in his choices, but he is still being well taken care for. You see it in his choices, he does not hurry anywhere, taking time with his studies, racing, partying, choice of his girlfriend, simply doing what he pleases without really having any point where he's heading. On the other hand Victoria's life, as a Crown Princess, is more prescribed and more influenced by other peoples choices, the only choice which she in the end made freely was her husband. I don't think CP would be able to lead a life like that, from the three siblings it's Victoria who IMO inherited their mothers strong work ethics and ability to put your work/mission in front of your own needs. (Before anyone jumps on my back, I do think that also the King serves his country well.)
Without really being able to tell at that age, I think the decision of the law beeing inforced in retrospect was a right one. And I don't think that Victoria or Carl Philip are unhappy with that.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #240  
Old 06-25-2011, 11:21 PM
XeniaCasaraghi's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 1729 Noneofyourbusiness Drive, United States
Posts: 2,161
As soon as I read about the change in Sweden I had to shake my head in wonderment. Why the heck would you just take a way a prince's titles and role like that? It has always rubbed me the wrong way how they switched out the heir's position. And then I later came across what they did in Norway with Haakon and his older sister and I have to wonder why the heck Sweden didn't do that as well! Keep the heir being the heir but make sure to do it equally from then on. This is why I wish England would hurry up and deal with their situation instead of playing the waiting game.
__________________

__________________
Princess Grace, April 19, 1956
Princess Margaret Rose, May 6, 1960
Crown Princess Mette-Marit, August 25, 2001
Jaqueline Bouvier Kennedy, September 12, 1953
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
When did your opinion of Diana change and why? ysbel Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 1113 06-05-2011 11:20 PM
What would you change? Lena Royal Chit Chat 20 06-23-2010 06:31 PM
Change of name of our community to TRF... Andy R Forum Announcements and Admin 2 08-29-2004 04:29 PM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth birthday bourbon-parma camilla charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria danish royals diana engagement fashion genealogy grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri habsburg hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume hohenzollern infanta elena king abdullah king abdullah ii king albert ii king carl xvi gustav king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander norway picture thread pom pregnancy prince albert prince albert ii prince constantijn prince felipe prince felix prince frederik prince henrik prince joachim princess princess alexia (2005 -) princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess charlene daytime fashion princess haya princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess marie princess mary princess maxima queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia state visit wedding willem-alexander william


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:46 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]