Discussion about Princess Sofia's Past & Future Role in the Royal Family

[Meraude]

I expect her to attend openings of parliament, national day/official birthday celebrations, Nobel ceremonies, and possibly state banquets in honor of visiting HoS's on a regular basis. I don't expect her or her husband for that matter to take part in state visits overseas, or to lead Swedish delegations in diplomatic, business, cultural or scientific missions to foreign countries as the King and the Crown Princess routinely do.

Prince Bertil was very active doing these things from the 1940ies and during his father's rule, as well during the first years of his nephew's rule. Why doesn't Carl Philip help with this, unless he's more interesting in doing his own stuff? I admire prince Bertil for doing so much for Sweden, as well as Victoria today, non so much for her brother.

 

[Mbruno]

Prince Bertil was very active doing these things from the 1940ies and during his father's rule, as well during the first years of his nephew's rule. Why doesn't Carl Philip help with this, unless he's more interesting in doing his own stuff? I admire prince Bertil for doing so much for Sweden, as well as Victoria today, non so much for her brother.

I can't comment on Prince Bertil's role during King Gustav VI Adolf's reign, but, in the early years of Carl Gustaf's reign, I suppose Prince Bertil had to pitch in because there was no one else available other than the King himself to do those things. Nowadays, the King can rely on the Crown Princess and her husband.

 

[Tilia C.]

During the time when Prince Bertil was so busy with royal duties, the King was already ageing, his eldest son had died much too early and the Crown Prince Carl-Gustaf was still too young to fully fill the role. So Prince Bertil stepped up.

I think that the Court makes sure that none of the younger siblings overshadows the Crown Princess. They probably want a wide gap between Victoria's activities and those of the younger ones.

 

[Meraude]

I think that the Court makes sure that none of the younger siblings overshadows the Crown Princess. They probably want a wide gap between Victoria's activities and those of the younger ones.

So it's better for the court to support two lazy brats, than have siblings who are helping their older sister when it comes to royal duties?

 

[HRHAmy]

The way that the SRF's website fails to mention Sofia's past career (not to mention the way they don't really say anything concrete about her pre-Project Playground achievements, including the use of dates) is the SRF trying to white wash her history.

Her page on the SRF's website tells of her background and personal history. Her modelling career is a part of that, like it or not.

Exactly. It was a big part of her life back then. To not say anything about it is suspicious.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

So it's better for the court to support two lazy brats, than have siblings who are helping their older sister when it comes to royal duties?

It is just the downsizing we see in all monarchies: the focus on the King, the Heir and their families. You see it in Spain, you see it in the Netherlands, you also see it in Norway where the brother of the Crown Princess (Sverre) is already no HRH and does not have the territporial designation "of Norway", anticipating on a low-key royal role in the future.

The spotlight is full on the royal couple, the crown princely couple and their daughter Estelle. Seems a normal development in all monarchies.

 

[Meraude]

The spotlight is full on the royal couple, the crown princely couple and their daughter Estelle. Seems a normal development in all monarchies.

If it's about downsizing the monarchy, then he and his wife could have become Mr. and Mrs. Bernadotte, and Carl Philip would have been able to spend all his time with his racing career, which seems to be what he wants to do.

 

[Mbruno]

So it's better for the court to support two lazy brats, than have siblings who are helping their older sister when it comes to royal duties?

As far as I understand, the King, the Queen Consort and the Crown Princess are the only members of the SRF that receive direct funding from the State. I suppose the King pays for CP's and Madeleine's expenses out of his appanage only when those expenses are related to official royal duties.

Please note that I am not advocating that CP and Sofia should have no official role at all. In fact, I fully expect them to take up domestic engagements and get involved with different civil society organizations in Sweden. What I don't expect them to do, as I said, is to serve as ambassadors for Sweden overseas in economic or diplomatic missions as Crown Princess Victoria does.

As for his private life, in addition to his race driving, CP has his design business and I also expect him to get more involved in the future in the management of the estates he inherited or will potentially inherit (hence, the rationale for his pursuing an agricultural management degree).

 

[princess maggie]

Hello, I am a new member and this is my first post.Full disclosure: I am a Sofia supporter (as well as a supporter of most Royals). Having followed many of these threads I think it is safe to say that Sofia will have an uphill battle and I think she will win with dignity and grace and CHARM. I see the royal duties of CP and S increasing very much in the next few years. CG and his Queen are both around 70 and they will cut back their duties as CPV and Daniel take over more and more. That leaves CP and Sofia to step in to a more visible and active set of duties. They have had 5-6 years of a very private life as a couple(except where the tabloids have tried to make it otherwise).In those years THEY have not created any scandals and I salute them as they move into their new duties.
Loved the wedding and continue to watch the 10hr. video from SVT and see something new every time I play it. The love and support in the Royal family (and between the Royal families) is inspiring.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

If it's about downsizing the monarchy, then he and his wife could have become Mr. and Mrs. Bernadotte, and Carl Philip would have been able to spend all his time with his racing career, which seems to be what he wants to do.

No. Why? There are Dukes, Counts, Barons in Sweden as well who remain Duke, Count or Baron, even though they have no public role. Why should Prince Carl Philip of Sweden, legitimate son of the King, give up his royal titles?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

As far as I understand, the King, the Queen Consort and the Crown Princess are the only members of the SRF that receive direct funding from the State. [...]

According the website of the Swedish monarchy only the King gets an annual apanage.

This apanage has to cover the costs of The King's Household, the Office of the Marshal of the Realm and its staff departments, Personnel, Finances, Information and Press, the Office of the Marshal of the Court, The Queen's Household, The Crown Princess's Household as well as the Royal Mews.

So apparently the Queen and the Crown Princess are not receiving direct funding from the State. It comes from the King's apanage.

 

[Madame Verseau]

@Duc _Et_Pair - I believe Carl-Philip and Madeleine are listed as members of the Queen's Household, and as such, state funds are trickling down from the King.

@princess maggie - I think the monarch determines how members of the Royal Family represent Sweden and support Swedish interests in the country and abroad. Carl Gustaf and Silvia may step back and let the younger generation take on more, but Carl Gustaf will not live forever. The day will come when Victoria becomes queen, and the government will be sending her the apanage. Victoria will be determining how to disperse the funds, and to whom.

Recent pictures show the Crown Princess Couple and the Prince Couple at a Roxette concert. After the headlines of nasty comments about Sofia left on Madeleine's Facebook page and Victoria not commenting about the wedding during a state visit to South Korea, it looks like Victoria and the rest of the SRF have made their peace with Sofia. I still have reservations about the marriage and how it could impact the SRF on different levels.

1) Personal - namely, any children Carl-Philip & Sofia may have. Despite the efforts of the courtiers to remove Sofia's more scandalous pictures, stories and tweets from her blog from the internet, nothing completely goes away. Carl-Philip, I believed, was teased and bullied about his dyslexia when he was a child going to school. Sofia's past is too well known. What are the chances that some kid(s) at the school the Prince Couple's children attend
their mom's snake adorned pictures are thrown in their faces? Or the kids get dragged on the internet or social media because Mom starred on a reality show and got into a fight with another contestant? Dad was no angel, and neither was the grandfather the king, but double standards exist and the onus falls on the woman. The sons would be taunted about their mother, and the daughters would be judged for being like their mother back then. I trust if children do come Carl-Philip and Sofia prepare them for that possibility. The last thing anyone wants is hearing one of the kids coming home crying or got into a fight in school because Mom's Miss Slitz article was passed around.

2) The country - since by law Swedish royal marriages have to be approved by the sovereign and the Riksdag, I'm surprised there is no formal vetting process (that is known) for a potential royal spouse. I presumed Daniel had a deep background check done because he was about to become the husband of a future head of state. From what I've seen the sovereign says ok, goes to the Riksdag, and its consent is a minor formality. The embarrassing and damaging stuff start going away after the engagement announcement and the whitewash began. (Or was it before?) Not everything was scooped up. Before the banns ceremony Aftonbladet did an article about Sofia that put her in an unflattering light (I believe it was about her life in New York City). When questioned the court information officer and Sofia did not comment. Daniel and Chris had their lives turned inside out by the press, but nothing was done to Sofia. For practical purposes full disclosure of Sofia 's life should have been done - good, bad and ugly - so the SRF would not be potentially exposed to blackmail. Full disclosure neutralizes the threat, and no one from an ex with dirty pictures to a powerful individual or organization with a long reach and deep pockets can't come after the House of Bernadotte.

You may disagree and dismiss what I'm saying as a crazy conspiracy theory. but after reading about the faux Nazi scandal about Queen Elizabeth II (and the Nazi ties to the Duke of Windsor) and the lengths anyone will go to take someone down, anything is possible and that's why the character and history question are important in my opinion.

 

[princess maggie]

I agree that the King( and eventually CPV) will decide how the money is dispensed and who represents what and how in the SRF to a degree. Are there not lines of succession and CPV will follow CG and Estelle is next and then CP. There will be quite a few years before Estelle is ready to assume duties and anything could happen along the way (God forbid) so CP would need to be ready to take on more active role.
Sofia is not ashamed of her past and she should not be. I don't think it such a big issue inside the family and in fact inside Sweden.

 

[HRHAmy]

They have had 5-6 years of a very private life as a couple(except where the tabloids have tried to make it otherwise).In those years THEY have not created any scandals and I salute them as they move into their new duties.

That's technically not true. During their relationship CP got slapped at a night club with Sofia there with him, her screaming and carrying on. Then there was the drunk night in France where he lost his Gucci wallet and had to hitch a ride home where he showed up late to his race and subsequently didn't place. Again he was with Sofia at this time. So technically not scandal free. I think he was more low key with Emma.

 

[KitKat2006]

They only reacted to situations and didn't activly start them. That is a big difference and can happen to everyone. And sorry but it is not Sofias fault if Carl Philip gets slapped or looses his wallet. That could have happened also with Emma being there.

 

[Madame Verseau]

That's technically not true. During their relationship CP got slapped at a night club with Sofia there with him, her screaming and carrying on. Then there was the drunk night in France where he lost his Gucci wallet and had to hitch a ride home where he showed up late to his race and subsequently didn't place. Again he was with Sofia at this time. So technically not scandal free. I think he was more low key with Emma.

I forgot about that incident in Cannes. I remember thinking Carl-Philip with his military training couldn't handle himself in a bar fight. My second thought was where was his security detail. Then I read in an article in Aftonbladet that Carl-Philip and Madeleine do not get security details because they are not that "important". C-P didn't have one that night, but that may have changed that mess in Cannes. As for what has officially been put out on the Cannes fight, people who claim to be at the bar put out a different account. Someone threw an insult as Sofia, and C-P & his boys engaged in a shouting match and it escalated. That was not smart given his position, nor romantic. C-P & his party should have walked away, especially since they had no security. Now they have a YouTube video that looks like an outtake from a reality show (C-P getting dragged, Sofia looking like a ride or die girl) that will live in infamy. It could have been worse. The palace stated it would look into legal action, but nothing happened. My guess - the royal lawyers found that C-P had exposure so they dropped the matter. If the incident went down as others have claimed, I trust C-P learned to keep it in check, especially for public engagements.

 

[HRHAmy]

Discussion about Princess Sofia's Past & Future Role in the Royal Family

They only reacted to situations and didn't activly start them. That is a big difference and can happen to everyone. And sorry but it is not Sofias fault if Carl Philip gets slapped or looses his wallet. That could have happened also with Emma being there.

I never said it was Sofia's fault. I simply stated that what the other poster said about CP not having any scandals while with Sofia was inaccurate. He had many.

As Madame V said...CP could have reacted better to the situation or he could've not have gone to the club at all especially if he knew he had an important race the next day (I know different incident.) Who knows if it started as an insult to Sofia but knowing her clubbing history/jobs it could've very well happened. Yes it could have also happened with Emma but I can hardly think of any insult they could throw at her that would be that bad as to make CP fly off the handle.

 

[Madame Verseau]

@HRHAmy - There's the tape on YouTube where the fight spilled onto the streets. CP's entourage and Sofia trying to keep him from engaging the guy, but he did anyway. Then the slap came later, with CP's friends and Sofia trying to pull the guys off CP. Neither one acquitted themselves here; and the tape may have hurt any legal recourse the palace could have used. I don't doubt that C-P & Sofia worried that the Cannes fight would have killed any chance of royal or government consent, but it obviously didn't. But I bet the king had a come-to-Jesus meeting with both of them, telling them how that incident gave the SRF a black eye. Ironic given the king's own scandal, but I bet that conversation was held anyway and going forward, no repeats.

 

[HRHAmy]

@HRHAmy - There's the tape on YouTube where the fight spilled onto the streets. CP's entourage and Sofia trying to keep him from engaging the guy, but he did anyway. Then the slap came later, with CP's friends and Sofia trying to pull the guys off CP. Neither one acquitted themselves here; and the tape may have hurt any legal recourse the palace could have used. I don't doubt that C-P & Sofia worried that the Cannes fight would have killed any chance of royal or government consent, but it obviously didn't. But I bet the king had a come-to-Jesus meeting with both of them, telling them how that incident gave the SRF a black eye. Ironic given the king's own scandal, but I bet that conversation was held anyway and going forward, no repeats.

Yes I saw the video. Although it was a while ago and it wasn't very clear we can agree it was a big embarrassment to the SRF. I can't help but ponder that CP never had these issues when he wasn't with Sofia.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Yes, let's try to spin this so CP's drunken fall-out is Sofia's fault, why don't we?

I honestly fail to see why on the earth Sofia is getting dragged into this? I highly doubt she was actively encouraging him to get into a brawl – and even in the unlikely case that she was, she can't force CP to do anything, in the end, what CP did is CP's own fault – it will never be Sofia's.

 

[Madame Verseau]

@Archduchess Zelia - the overall question is can the Prince Couple deal with anyone throwing Sofia's past in their faces no matter where they go. It's one thing to ignore online comments, it's another when someone brings it up in front of you. During the Auschwitz memorial service this past January a reporter asked Victoria about her maternal grandfather who was a member of the German Nazi party. Victoria handled it well; she didn't go off on the reporter. This was something her grandfather did, but it still must sting and she has to deal with questions like that. The same principle applies with Sofia's past. There is a chance someone with throw that at them, and C-P & Sofia cannot afford to repeat their actions in Cannes. The drag on Sofia would be "you can take the girl out the reality show and give her a title and a tiara, but you can't take the reality show out of the girl". C-P would be slammed for the return of the spoiled, entitled prince. They really have to walk the straight and narrow from now on, and deal with it with dignity.

 

[Queen Claude]

@Archduchess Zelia - the overall question is can the Prince Couple deal with anyone throwing Sofia's past in their faces no matter where they go. It's one thing to ignore online comments, it's another when someone brings it up in front of you. During the Auschwitz memorial service this past January a reporter asked Victoria about her maternal grandfather who was a member of the German Nazi party. Victoria handled it well; she didn't go off on the reporter. This was something her grandfather did, but it still must sting and she has to deal with questions like that. The same principle applies with Sofia's past. There is a chance someone with throw that at them, and C-P & Sofia cannot afford to repeat their actions in Cannes. The drag on Sofia would be "you can take the girl out the reality show and give her a title and a tiara, but you can't take the reality show out of the girl". C-P would be slammed for the return of the spoiled, entitled prince. They really have to walk the straight and narrow from now on, and deal with it with dignity.

It was the prince who acted out in Cannes not Sofia, she tried to get him to disengage.

Assuming that the trigger was someone insulting Sofia, and by the way there's not a credible report to support this assumption, this was one incident in 5-6 years which means one of two things, the incident was an isolated one or there have been other incidents and Carl Philip has learned not to react so strongly.

 

[HRHAmy]

@Archduchess Zelia - the overall question is can the Prince Couple deal with anyone throwing Sofia's past in their faces no matter where they go. It's one thing to ignore online comments, it's another when someone brings it up in front of you. During the Auschwitz memorial service this past January a reporter asked Victoria about her maternal grandfather who was a member of the German Nazi party. Victoria handled it well; she didn't go off on the reporter. This was something her grandfather did, but it still must sting and she has to deal with questions like that. The same principle applies with Sofia's past. There is a chance someone with throw that at them, and C-P & Sofia cannot afford to repeat their actions in Cannes. The drag on Sofia would be "you can take the girl out the reality show and give her a title and a tiara, but you can't take the reality show out of the girl". C-P would be slammed for the return of the spoiled, entitled prince. They really have to walk the straight and narrow from now on, and deal with it with dignity.

I totally agree with you. It's not who started what or who said what to whom but how the couple especially CP will handle Sofia's past being brought up time and time again.

As we've concurred...the press likes to write colorful headlines and insinuate stories to make money. They always will, it's just how it is. So in that case Sofia will always be a target. It is up to the SRF and CP to take it in stride and handle it with grace.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

@Archduchess Zelia - the overall question is can the Prince Couple deal with anyone throwing Sofia's past in their faces no matter where they go. It's one thing to ignore online comments, it's another when someone brings it up in front of you. During the Auschwitz memorial service this past January a reporter asked Victoria about her maternal grandfather who was a member of the German Nazi party. Victoria handled it well; she didn't go off on the reporter. This was something her grandfather did, but it still must sting and she has to deal with questions like that. The same principle applies with Sofia's past. There is a chance someone with throw that at them, and C-P & Sofia cannot afford to repeat their actions in Cannes. The drag on Sofia would be "you can take the girl out the reality show and give her a title and a tiara, but you can't take the reality show out of the girl". C-P would be slammed for the return of the spoiled, entitled prince. They really have to walk the straight and narrow from now on, and deal with it with dignity.

First of all, I don't know what any of this has to do with my initial question – what has Sofia got to do with CP's Cannes brawl (his action, not "their actions")? Secondly, what makes you think they won't? You're literally criticising them for something that hasn't happened yet. And as Queen Claude so rightly says, this was a one time incident that hasn't been repeated. Using it as an argument for either CP or Sofia's unsuitability as royals is just reaching. And please, spare me for that "you can't take the reality show out of the girl" crap, it's so ridiculously condescending.

 

[princess maggie]

First of all, I don't know what any of this has to do with my initial question – what has Sofia got to do with CP's Cannes brawl (his action, not "their actions")? Secondly, what makes you think they won't? You're literally criticising them for something that hasn't happened yet. And as Queen Claude so rightly says, this was a one time incident that hasn't been repeated. Using it as an argument for either CP or Sofia's unsuitability as royals is just reaching. And please, spare me for that "you can't take the reality show out of the girl" crap, it's so ridiculously condescending.

Very well said Archduchess.Let us move on.

 

[Madame Verseau]

The "you can't take the reality show out of the girl" is meant if Sofia steps on a rake that becomes a PR nightmare. The press will drag her if it happens. She still has to prove her on a solo event as well as a joint one with C-P as royals. Past behavior has me reserve judgment; a taxpayer funded, fairytale wedding is not going to wipe away my doubts; and I imagine others feel the same. The one thing I liked about Daniel is that he was aware people weren't sure about him as the future Prince Consort of Sweden. He acknowledged that during his wedding speech, and he pledged he would work to earn the people's trust. That humility and his work I think helped with his popularity individually and as one-half of the Crown Princess Couple. The jury is still out for me with the Prince Couple.

 

[princess maggie]

Just a question...was the wedding tax-payer funded? I thought I read that the King paid for the private wedding.Not sure.

 

[LadyFinn]

Just a question...was the wedding tax-payer funded? I thought I read that the King paid for the private wedding.Not sure.

The director of the economy at the court, Jan Lindman, told before the wedding that the king pays about a half of the wedding costs, such as the pre-wedding dinner. Costs from the wedding ceremony: flowers, security and transport are paid from the apanage, taxpayers money.
Så mycket kostar bröllopet _ Nyheter _ Aftonbladet

 

[LadyFinn]

The king and queen are giving a big role to Sofia right in the beginning.

The king and queen founded Global Child Forum (Former World Child & Youth Forum) in 2009. It has been held in Stockholm and last year was first satellite forum in Dubai, where queen Silvia attended.

On 8th September will be held Global Child Forum in Pretoria, South Africa.
"The Forum, with more than 30 prominent speakers and under the patronage and active participation of Dr. Graça Machel and H.R.H. Princess Sofia of Sweden, has a special focus on building partnerships and on corporate sustainability for the protection of children’s rights in Southern Africa."
Global Child Forum Pretoria 8 september 2015 _ Global Child Forum

So, obviously after less than 3 months from the wedding, Sofia gets an own patronage event abroad. This information has been on the website of the Forum for many weeks already.

 

[Muhler]

Thanks, LadyFinn.

Good, she starts in an area and topic she is familiar with. A nice little start.