Charles and Diana

[sirhon11234]

As someone said if William and Catherine ever get a Divorce ( Which I hope they never do!) it will be the ultimate death penalty.

While if they do divorce it would be very sad for the monarchy W&K and the baby. But if it's handled in a respectful way such as Alexandra & Jocheim's divorce, I don't think it would be a total death sentence. I'd rather see an unhappy & unfulfilled marriage end than see it dragged on with misery to everyone involved.

 

[Dman]

Although I very much doubt the Cambridge's will go down the divorce path, if that happened, I think they would try to end things peacefully.

Although it wouldn't stop the tabloids for making things very difficult by making up stories and blowing private situations out of proportion. Sadly that happened with the Wales's and what's even more sad is that a great deal of the very dramatic and fictional stories stuck with some people.

 

[BritishRoyalist]

While if they do divorce it would be very sad for the monarchy W&K and the baby. But if it's handled in a respectful way such as Alexandra & Jocheim's divorce, I don't think it would be a total death sentence. I'd rather see an unhappy & unfulfilled marriage end than see it dragged on with misery to everyone involved.

True. If they Handle it like The Danish did with Jochelm's and Alexandra Divorce then it will be fine but if we get a repeat of his Patents then the Monarchy could be in trouble. It will be sad of William and Catherine got a Divorce for lot of reasons including the fact if it happens while they are Prince and Princess of Wales he would be the son of the last prince if wales who got a divorce .

Better to end things as soon as you can and drag it in the mid as it Dave everyone the misery.

But William married the first women he fill in love with and the one he wanted to spend the rest of his life with which make a difference

 

[Dman]

I think the Cambridge's will make it. I try not to compare their marriage to Charles & Diana's though. It wouldn't be fair to them.

Although I do think there are people out there that's looking for those same signs (that were in the Wales's marriage) in William & Catherine's marriage. That's just wrong, IMO.

 

[Mermaid1962]

I disagree with item 4. There were a number of sources who said that they helped her or tried to help her. They gave her books to read about past Queens (which she didn't read), they had her take some calls, incognito, in the Buckingham Palace press office and toured media outlets to show her, and Susan Hussey helped train her. She also had Prince Charles's staff to guide her during the early days--during the engagement.

4. No one brief Diana on Royal Life or protocol including her Family, Charles or the palace. It was expected she would know everything from the start and would learn with the process.

 

[Dman]

Books can't teach you how to be a modern day royal. It's about getting out there and doing the work.

It took sometime for Diana to find her feet as a senior royal and future Queen but over time Diana gained a great deal of experience and worked her official engagements very well. She worked alongside Charles on representing The Queen, UK and Commonwealth pretty well. As members of the royal family is known to do, she helped put people at ease when they met her and shook her hand.

Despite everything personal, she did her job.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I disagree with item 4. There were a number of sources who said that they helped her or tried to help her. They gave her books to read about past Queens (which she didn't read), they had her take some calls, incognito, in the Buckingham Palace press office and toured media outlets to show her, and Susan Hussey helped train her. She also had Prince Charles's staff to guide her during the early days--during the engagement.

Diana was also moved into Buckingham Palace the day the engagement was announced to take "Princess lessons" from the Queen mother. I think she had a lot of people who wanted to help her be a royal.

The issue was that Diana wanted to do things differently, which was fine. The problem was that she expected to agree with her and praise her constantly, and then got really upset when they didn't. Then she lied and said that no one tried to help her.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

If King George VI were alive I don't thing Charles would have married Diana.

Interesting. Why do you think that?

 

[Dman]

I don't think Diana expected any praises for her official duties but I think she felt she deserved a pat on the back once in a while.

The Queen now gives her daughter-in-laws and now her granddaughter-in-law pats on the back and don't seem to mind letting them know she appreciate the work they put in at the "Firm." The Queen has honored The Duchess of Cornwall and The Countess of Wessex with the Royal Victorian Order and Catherine will too will receive the Order at some point. Diana worked hard (not saying better or harder than anyone else) in her role as HRH The Princess of Wales and future Queen Consort for 16 years and never received the prestigious and high honor of the Royal Victorian Order or any other British royal Order other than The Royal Family Order of Queen Elizabeth II.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Camilla received the Royal Victorian Order after 7 years of marriage to Charles. Seven years into Diana's marriage, she was regularly upstaging other members of the royal family, especially Charles and Sarah. Perhaps the Queen didn't give her the award because she thought Diana was working more for Diana rather than as part of the royal family.

 

[Dman]

Charles & Diana were having problems but Diana was doing a pretty good job as HRH The Princess of Wales. I don't remember Diana upstaging Charles or and other members of the royal family.

 

[NGalitzine]

Charles & Diana were having problems but Diana was doing a pretty good job as HRH The Princess of Wales. I don't remember Diana upstaging Charles or and other members of the royal family.

Really? Just off the top of my head.....debuting a new hairstyle at the state opening of parliament which became "the story" in the next days papers or how about "spontaneously" getting on stage to play piano at the event where Charles was playing cello thus diverting press attention onto herself. Diana walys knew exactly what she was doing when it came to bringing attention to herself.

 

[BritishRoyalist]

Really? Just off the top of my head.....debuting a new hairstyle at the state opening of parliament which became "the story" in the next days papers or how about "spontaneously" getting on stage to play piano at the event where Charles was playing cello thus diverting press attention onto herself. Diana walys knew exactly what she was doing when it came to bringing attention to herself.

Diana definitely did try to steal attention away from the Prince of Wales, Queen and The Queen Mother at times and others as well and unfortunately she succeeded. She always had to be the focus of attention and never like it when other got it and they weren't talking about her.

Catherine, Sophie and Camilla don't try to ever to get attention and steal the spotlight from others . They at least know where the focus of attention is suppose to be and don't care if it on them or not.

 

[sirhon11234]

Really? Just off the top of my head.....debuting a new hairstyle at the state opening of parliament which became "the story" in the next days papers or how about "spontaneously" getting on stage to play piano at the event where Charles was playing cello thus diverting press attention onto herself. Diana walys knew exactly what she was doing when it came to bringing attention to herself.

Is this the event you're referring to where the maestro & class asked C&D to play the instruments?
Princess Diana plays the piano in Australia - YouTube

 

[amaryllus]

Reminds me of the article I read awhile back about Catherine having curtsy to Beatrice and Eugenie...and people pointing out Catherine was not going to make a production out of it-it means little in reality but it is just way things operate and it's not personal.

 

[Dman]

Really? Just off the top of my head.....debuting a new hairstyle at the state opening of parliament which became "the story" in the next days papers or how about "spontaneously" getting on stage to play piano at the event where Charles was playing cello thus diverting press attention onto herself. Diana walys knew exactly what she was doing when it came to bringing attention to herself.

Oh wow, how dare Diana style her hair for the State Opening of Parliament. She should've been arrested.

There's no hard proof that Diana tried her best to take the spotlight off of The Queen and other members of the royal family. The press was fascinated with Diana and did whatever it took to make her the story. She couldn't help what the press and tabloids wrote.

I can't imagine how it must have felt to her when everyone blamed her for everything.

Reminds me of the article I read awhile back about Catherine having curtsy to Beatrice and Eugenie...and people pointing out Catherine was not going to make a production out of it-it means little in reality but it is just way things operate and it's not personal.

The story was false.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Is this the event you're referring to where the maestro & class asked C&D to play the instruments?
Princess Diana plays the piano in Australia - YouTube

If that is the event, she was obviously asked to play. When I refer to her upstaging other members of the royal family, I am referring to her deliberately scheduling appearances to conflict with other members of the royal family, knowing that the media would focus on her. There is a post by Zonk upthread explaining how Diana deliberately upstaged Sarah's first official appearance.

She upstaged everyone in the royal family, but it was especially noticeable with Charles and Sarah. Charles would want to draw attention to a serious cause, such as deforestation, and Diana would deliberately schedule an appearance, or call the media and let them know she would be in public with the boys.

Of course she should fix her hair before going to parliament, but she changed her hair style, knowing that it would grab headlines away from the Queen's remarks.

When Diana appeared with other members of the family and the cameras moved away from her, she would purposely do things (make a face, strike a pose) to get photographers back on her. She loved the attention.

 

[Dman]

I guess Diana shouldn't have attended public events with the royal family because the media would only focus on her and not the other members of the royal family. Shame on her for attending any private or public engagement with her family. Shame on her for daring to smile or make a face. These things The Queen and members of the royal family do all the time without anyone complaining about it but Diana ( chuckle) should've known better

I'm glad the current European Princesses/Queen's are allowed to breath, be themselves and not worry about upstaging the Monarchs or other members of the royal family. They are able to dress to the nines and not have their husbands or in-laws envy of the attention they get. They can't control the media's focus. All they can do is go on doing their job.

 

[sirhon11234]

If that is the event, she was obviously asked to play. When I refer to her upstaging other members of the royal family, I am referring to her deliberately scheduling appearances to conflict with other members of the royal family, knowing that the media would focus on her. There is a post by Zonk upthread explaining how Diana deliberately upstaged Sarah's first official appearance.

She upstaged everyone in the royal family, but it was especially noticeable with Charles and Sarah. Charles would want to draw attention to a serious cause, such as deforestation, and Diana would deliberately schedule an appearance, or call the media and let them know she would be in public with the boys.

Of course she should fix her hair before going to parliament, but she changed her hair style, knowing that it would grab headlines away from the Queen's remarks.

When Diana appeared with other members of the family and the cameras moved away from her, she would purposely do things (make a face, strike a pose) to get photographers back on her. She loved the attention.

What Diana loved didn't love isn't relevant to my post. My post was in response to Ngalitzine on the event he or she referred to.

 

[amaryllus]

I wonder if she ever had glimmer of realization that she bore a measure of responsibility for the poor choices and actions that caused embarrassment, worry and controversy for all those around her. I don't know that she was ever emotionally mature and healthy enough and it was easier and more comfortable to place blame.

 

[COUNTESS]

She can only upstage people when you are more interesting and they are not. If a hairdo was that exciting, than what did the others do to attract, or did they just feel it was their due. Diana was exciting, she was lovely and the RF was quite stale. In fact, many of her "ideas" are how they, the RF, face the public, today. As for Camilla getting a medal and not Diana, why not she has been in Charles life forever, perhaps she deserves one. Catherine is a show stealer, so to speak. She is, also, lovely. I think Sophie stayed out of the limelight for several reasons, one I don't think it is her personality. Two, she learned from Diana's treatment and three her husband loves her, so she doesn't need outside fulfillment.

 

[Dman]

The Princess of Wales made her mistakes but I don't think she fully understood the kind of family she was dealing with in those days. The family and their attitude changed a lot, I think. With the Duchesses of Cornwall, Cambridge, Countess of Wessex and the other younger royals, the family seems less stiff, starchy and formal. They are kind of laid back and relaxed. They're able to be themselves and don't have to worry about not upstaging The Queen because she herself have relaxed a bit over the years.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

She can only upstage people when you are more interesting and they are not. If a hairdo was that exciting, than what did the others do to attract, or did they just feel it was their due. Diana was exciting, she was lovely and the RF was quite stale. In fact, many of her "ideas" are how they, the RF, face the public, today. As for Camilla getting a medal and not Diana, why not she has been in Charles life forever, perhaps she deserves one. Catherine is a show stealer, so to speak. She is, also, lovely. I think Sophie stayed out of the limelight for several reasons, one I don't think it is her personality. Two, she learned from Diana's treatment and three her husband loves her, so she doesn't need outside fulfillment.

Of course Diana was much more interesting than the royal family. I can also understand it from the media's standpoint. It not only sold more papers, but it is much more fun to write about a hairstyle rather than the issues facing parliament, or to write about a dress rather than delve into deforestation or economics.

You also bring up an interesting point. It's probably true that Charles may have been more content being out of the limelight if he had a wife who loved him.

 

[Ish]

I guess Diana shouldn't have attended public events with the royal family because the media would only focus on her and not the other members of the royal family. Shame on her for attending any private or public engagement with her family. Shame on her for daring to smile or make a face. These things The Queen and members of the royal family do all the time without anyone complaining about it but Diana ( chuckle) should've known better

I'm glad the current European Princesses/Queen's are allowed to breath, be themselves and not worry about upstaging the Monarchs or other members of the royal family. They are able to dress to the nines and not have their husbands or in-laws envy of the attention they get. They can't control the media's focus. All they can do is go on doing their job.

There's no need to be melodramatic.

The vast majority of the time a royal woman is not at fault for the media attention she gets. The focus is naturally on her because she's the one wearing the clothes and the jewels and what not that we care about (not that the men aren't typically wearing clothes themselves, but we tend not to care about what they're wearing so long as it's something).

When an article appears after an event that spends more time talking about what Sophie was wearing than what the actual event was it's not really her fault. The same can often be said of Diana. So long as she was dressed appropriately for an event she wasn't likely to be trying to upstage anyone simply by showing up in clothes. Regardless of what she did she was going to be the focal point of discussion because of what she wore.

At times even her actions were just within her being herself. She made a face or smiled or whatever not in a deliberate attempt to upstage anyone but because that was natural for her.

That doesn't mean that there weren't times when she didn't deliberately attempt to upstage others. That also doesn't mean that there weren't times when while she may not have done so deliberately, she upstaged others because she was inconsiderate.

Take changing her hair style. She shouldn't be faulted for styling her hair or for changing the style. But to decide that the appropriate time to debut a new hair style is the Opening of Parliament, when the focus should be on the Queen, is acting inappropriately. I'm not saying that at that moment she was trying to upstage the Queen, but she was being inconsiderate and didn't consider how her actions were going to affect others.

We do know that she deliberately tried to upstage others at other points though. She would pick times to appear in public when she knew that Charles was doing an engagement. She deliberately planned engagements on the days that Sarah was making her debut. Diana knew her media appeal and when it suited her she certainly used it to upstage those she viewed as her competitors.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

As always, you make a good point but, from Charles's point of view, I'm not sure that making a face or smiling was 'natural' for her. I give you that it may not have been conscious, but Diana came alive in front of the cameras.

She admits that she was very different in private. She was moody, depressed, etc... If she were always happy and outgoing, like Sarah, then it may have been easier for Charles to accept the way she behaved in public.

If anything, the other women in the royal family, including Catherine, seem more subdued in public than they are in private.

 

[Ish]

I used a bad choice of words with the "natural" there.

I will say that from my experiences of dealing with people with depression, bipolar, etc, thy can very much appear to be two different people in public and private. I think to some extent it's 'natural' to try to put on an act in public and appear to be happy and cheerful, when inside (and in private) you're far from it.

When Diana was appearing charming in public it wasn't always an attempt to upstage others. More often than not it was simply an attempt to put on a brave face and go "see how normal and happy I am even if that's a lie."

 

[Dman]

I'm not sure The Queen was as upset about Diana's hairdo at one of the State Openings of Parliament as some others may have been.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Ish, I'm sympathetic to the pressures Diana was under. I have friends and family who suffer from severe depression, bipolar and personality disorder. It's very hard for someone with those illnesses to see things from others point of view. It is fair to say that Charles didn't understood her illness.

But in the end, a person with a mental illness still has to live with others. The healthy spouse can't be expected to give 24/7, year in and year out, without a thought for themselves. In my experience, people with mental illnesses want to be considerate and giving, but in their own way and on their own terms. The person with the illness wants to choose the other person's needs. It doesn't work like that.

There are strategies for successfully communicating with someone with a mental illness that Charles could have learned. He also needed to let some things go. But living with a person with mental illness is very hard. Many posters on this forum who attack Charles and the royal family obviously have no clue about what it was like for them.

Diana had many solo appearances where she could have shown to her heart's content. Especially if she had cooperated on scheduling so everyone got a chance at headlines. Instead, she chose to make it a competition that she knew she would win and it hurt her marriage. Yet, Dianaphiles refuse to assign her any responsibility.

Moreover, some people insist that Diana wasn't jealous when other members of the family received press attention, but at the same time, they have no proof that Charles was jealous. They're just accepting Diana's word as gospel.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Later on, I do believe that Diana was trying to upstage her husband, definitely. But in 1984, especially after the birth of Harry, her hair was long. Wearing it down with a tiara would have looked awful. It made sense to put it up. It was the press who made a big deal out of it.

Of course she should fix her hair before going to parliament, but she changed her hair style, knowing that it would grab headlines away from the Queen's remarks.

 

[Mermaid1962]

One of the books was about Queen Mary, who DID "go out there and do the work." Queen Mary's mother--The Duchess of Teck (formerly Princess Mary Adelaide of Cambride)--did a huge amount of charity work and was loved for it--and Queen Mary (then Princess Victoria Mary of Teck,) learned from her by being her assistant before she married. Princess Alexandra was also loved for her public work. Anyone who marries into a historical institution and doesn't do her best to learn about it's history (especially it's history within the same century) is short-sighted.

Books can't teach you how to be a modern day royal. It's about getting out there and doing the work.

One of Diana's problems was that she wouldn't take advice from people who could have helped her.