Charles and Diana

[Tsaritsa]

I agree. She was between a rock and hard place and had no clue how to live without the protection of being married into the RF or negotiate the waters without them. It was an alien world she had to negotiate without a port in storm to anchor her.

A classic case of the grass always appearing to be greener, perhaps?

 

[Osipi]

A classic case of the grass always appearing to be greener, perhaps?

Definitely. When life seems to be in the pits, anything outside of it seems like the full blown ripe cherry. In time though, getting the cherry makes you realize that it has pits too.

 

[Somebody]

No - Andrew and then his girls before Edward, James and Louise.

Andrew is the Queen's second son and Edward the third.

Just because Andrew's children are girls doesn't mean they are behind Edward and his son in the line of succession.

If Charles has no children then the line would be:

Charles
Andrew
Beatrice
Eugenie
Edward
James
Louise
Anne
Peter
Savannah
Isla
Zara
Mia
David
Charles
Margarita
Sarah
Samuel
Daniel
Richard - Duke of Gloucester (who, if the idea that if there was a male in the line he would take precedence of girls would be the monarch as in 1952 his father was the first male (not descended from a female) in the line of succession.

Imo Richard would have made a fine king. However, his father would have been a different story.

Just one correction to the list above: Daniel should be Arthur. You're mixing up spouse and son

 

[Mermaid1962]

Diana was a moving target. She has said things along the lines of she did not want the separation in 1992 nor did she not want the divorce. But there were also stories about her and Fergie having a plan to jointly escape the Windsor fold.

Ah yes; but that was before Diana saw what Sarah went through with the Yorks' separation and divorce. Perhaps that's when reality hit about what it really meant.

 

[Osipi]

Perhaps by that time, Diana really wanted to remain married to The Prince of Wales and rightfully claim her position of The Princess of Wales and mother of a future King but on the other hand, she really didn't want to be married to Charles, the man that he was.

Kind of wanting her cake and eat it too kind of thing.

 

[Denville]

The queen would have preferred them to stay married in name, even if separated.. what drove her to insist on a divorce was the sniping in the press between the 2 of them. Diana no doubt felt at times that she would prefer to get out of the marriage and be free but at other times felt that she was afraid of the world outside, which she ad not lived in since she was 19 or 20.

 

[MARG]

I believe the separation could have gone on almost indefinitely and no one can say how it would have played out over time. However, Diana's infamous 'Panorama' interview severed any lasting sympathy or warmth for her in an instant when she attacked the throne.

Her Majesty ordered divorce proceedings to proceed immediately. End of story. I truly believe Diana was genuinely unprepared and totally shocked at what she had unintentionally set in train.

 

[bethaliz6894]

Perhaps by that time, Diana really wanted to remain married to The Prince of Wales and rightfully claim her position of The Princess of Wales and mother of a future King but on the other hand, she really didn't want to be married to Charles, the man that he was.

Kind of wanting her cake and eat it too kind of thing.

In a marriage don't you think you should have your cake and eat it to? I agree it takes 2 people to make the marriage work and Charles didn't seem interested after a while. Diana was no saint herself. To bad they couldn't find a way to be happy with each other.

 

[Denville]

In a marriage don't you think you should have your cake and eat it to? I agree it takes 2 people to make the marriage work and Charles didn't seem interested after a while. Diana was no saint herself. To bad they couldn't find a way to be happy with each other.

I think they did both try, but Charles probably gave up in a couple fo years and returned to Camilla.. He and Di had little in common, they didn't understand each other and she was ill with bulimia and depression. After a couple of years of rows, I think that Charles returned to Camilla, who was there for him, who was a comfortable companion. Diana then tried to get over her bulimia and when she was a bit better, she found a lover...

 

[jacqui24]

I think they did both try, but Charles probably gave up in a couple fo years and returned to Camilla.. He and Di had little in common, they didn't understand each other and she was ill with bulimia and depression. After a couple of years of rows, I think that Charles returned to Camilla, who was there for him, who was a comfortable companion. Diana then tried to get over her bulimia and when she was a bit better, she found a lover...

I think given the way a lot of upper society marriages were at that time, Charles wanted someone that made his life easy. Diana obviously didn't. He's always had that with Camilla and that's what he went back to. I wouldn't put money on him and Camilla being physically intimate from the beginning of the Wales' marriage, but they certain had an emotional intimacy that would've been a problem for most brides. And I don't think Charles wanted to acknowledge the damage it was doing to their relationship then. In his world, he's used to getting his way and others just deal with it. I mean, if I found a picture of my boyfriend's ex in his diary, that'd be a HUGE problem. I fully recognize they were simply a terrible match in reality, and they both had faults that ultimately led to the complete destruction. However, I do hold The Prince of Wales more accountable because he was a worldly 30-something year old versus a 20 year old. He should've known better than entering into a marriage under the circumstances they did. He did seem to have issue with his spine where his father was concerned when he was younger though.

 

[Tsaritsa]

I think given the way a lot of upper society marriages were at that time, Charles wanted someone that made his life easy. Diana obviously didn't. He's always had that with Camilla and that's what he went back to. I wouldn't put money on him and Camilla being physically intimate from the beginning of the Wales' marriage, but they certain had an emotional intimacy that would've been a problem for most brides. And I don't think Charles wanted to acknowledge the damage it was doing to their relationship then. In his world, he's used to getting his way and others just deal with it. I mean, if I found a picture of my boyfriend's ex in his diary, that'd be a HUGE problem. I fully recognize they were simply a terrible match in reality, and they both had faults that ultimately led to the complete destruction. However, I do hold The Prince of Wales more accountable because he was a worldly 30-something year old versus a 20 year old. He should've known better than entering into a marriage under the circumstances they did. He did seem to have issue with his spine where his father was concerned when he was younger though.

Charles wasn't always HRH The Prince of Wales whose every wish is someone's command. He was once a very timid, sensitive little boy who had a man's man, with a strong personality, who looked like a God, for a father. He never seemed to be on the same wave length as his Pa, but went out of his way -as children do- to gain his approval. He'd have done this all his life -deferring to his better? judgement- thus he probably thought, when it came to marriage, Pa knew best. The problem with his spine had been there for so long, he'd have failed to notice it. Eventual marriage with the right woman for him may have gone a long way to correcting the problem.

 

[jacqui24]

Charles wasn't always HRH The Prince of Wales whose every wish is someone's command. He was once a very timid, sensitive little boy who had a man's man, with a strong personality, who looked like a God, for a father. He never seemed to be on the same wave length as his Pa, but went out of his way -as children do- to gain his approval. He'd have done this all his life -deferring to his better? judgement- thus he probably thought, when it came to marriage, Pa knew best. The problem with his spine had been there for so long, he'd have failed to notice it. Eventual marriage with the right woman for him may have gone a long way to correcting the problem.

I don't know if I'd marriage to the right woman would've corrected it. Ultimately, I do think it corrected before he married Camilla. I think having gone through a lot of what he did did make him a better man. He realized after Diana that his birthright simply isn't going to guarantee his acceptance by the public anymore. There was a shift in how people viewed royalty over time as well that coincided with this time period. I do think 30s is at an age where you are old enough to know better and can't blame your issues on your parents or childhood anymore. I think they BOTH had really wrong impression of what marriage entails when they got into it.

 

[Tsaritsa]

I don't know if I'd marriage to the right woman would've corrected it. Ultimately, I do think it corrected before he married Camilla. I think having gone through a lot of what he did did make him a better man. He realized after Diana that his birthright simply isn't going to guarantee his acceptance by the public anymore. There was a shift in how people viewed royalty over time as well that coincided with this time period. I do think 30s is at an age where you are old enough to know better and can't blame your issues on your parents or childhood anymore. I think they BOTH had really wrong impression of what marriage entails when they got into it.

This, of course, goes back to their childhood experiences of their parents' marriages which would subconsciously have fuelled their own hopes and expectations of what marriage entails. I can't imagine Charles being the forceful personality his father was, instead, I see him doing what his mother is said to do, like her own mother, walk away rather than confront, difficulties. It's likely then, that Charles would have expected that Diana -wives in general?- didn't challenge husbands. Thus marriages held together. Diana, conversely, whilst entering the ONE marriage she believed would be safe from divorce had only witnessed those behaviours which led to it. She, without knowing it, may have played out those behaviours because she had no other 'tool' with which to handle difficult situations.

 

[duchessrachel]

I think given the way a lot of upper society marriages were at that time, Charles wanted someone that made his life easy. Diana obviously didn't. He's always had that with Camilla and that's what he went back to. I wouldn't put money on him and Camilla being physically intimate from the beginning of the Wales' marriage, but they certain had an emotional intimacy that would've been a problem for most brides. And I don't think Charles wanted to acknowledge the damage it was doing to their relationship then. In his world, he's used to getting his way and others just deal with it. I mean, if I found a picture of my boyfriend's ex in his diary, that'd be a HUGE problem. I fully recognize they were simply a terrible match in reality, and they both had faults that ultimately led to the complete destruction. However, I do hold The Prince of Wales more accountable because he was a worldly 30-something year old versus a 20 year old. He should've known better than entering into a marriage under the circumstances they did. He did seem to have issue with his spine where his father was concerned when he was younger though.

I have often wondered what would have happened if Diana had backed out of the marriage. When she mentioned it to her friends and they told her that her "face was already on the tea towels", if she had not let that sway her and she had backed out, would it have been a scandal? I don't really believe she wanted to back out, but I just wonder how it would have been received by the Royal Family given their closeness to the Spencers. Also, I wonder how the press would have portrayed it?

 

[Lady Nimue]

I have often wondered what would have happened if Diana had backed out of the marriage. When she mentioned it to her friends and they told her that her "face was already on the tea towels", if she had not let that sway her and she had backed out, would it have been a scandal? I don't really believe she wanted to back out, but I just wonder how it would have been received by the Royal Family given their closeness to the Spencers. Also, I wonder how the press would have portrayed it?

Given what was taking place behind the scenes, I think Diana's backing out would have been received with relief. Diana was proving to be far more of an unknown than had been bargained for, certainly from Charles' perspective.

I'm sure Charles would have taken the fall, as the gallant gentleman. We have to remember that back then Charles was not the demonized man he later became. Diana's age could have been used as reason. I'm sure Diana's mother would have played a part in the script to get Diana out of it, given she was not keen about the engagement to begin with (tried to talk Diana out of it). The tabloid press was still respectful of the BRF. It would have worked out.The BRF would have handled it. No scandal. JMO.

P.S. It would have been so much better for Charles. He would have had more time to get inwardly settled after the loss of Mountbattan, and older and wider, he would have been more careful with his next choice.

 

[Denville]

I have often wondered what would have happened if Diana had backed out of the marriage. When she mentioned it to her friends and they told her that her "face was already on the tea towels", if she had not let that sway her and she had backed out, would it have been a scandal? I don't really believe she wanted to back out, but I just wonder how it would have been received by the Royal Family given their closeness to the Spencers. Also, I wonder how the press would have portrayed it?

I think it is moot as it just would not hav happened. Even if Diana did make that remark to her sisters, I think she knew in her heart that she just could not back out. Charles also had misgivings but he knew he coud not back out either. If they had said anyting to the queen/RF/advisers, they would have been told firmly that it was impossible.

 

[Ish]

Posts discussing Camilla have been deleted as off topic.

 

[Pranter]

Lady Nimue ..from the other thread.


LaRae

 

[Ista]

Lady Nimue ..from the other thread.


LaRae

Prince Charles doesn't look very amused, does he?

 

[Pranter]

Prince Charles doesn't look very amused, does he?

Not even a little.


LaRae

 

[MARG]

Well since, at that time, they had an accord with the media whereby they would allow an annual holiday photo shoot and then the media would leave them alone for the rest of their holiday. In doing her best the screw up the shoot because she didn't see any reason 'she' had to do it, she broke the accord.

It's not much fun having photographers pop out from behind trees on the slope or staking out your accommodation.

 

[Ista]

Oh, what she was doing was definitely annoying, even to watch it from an outsider's perspective. I just thought it was interesting that Charles was at the point that he wasn't even trying to pretend to not be irritated by her antics.

 

[Pranter]

The post from the other thread (Andrew/Sarah thread) ..comment was made that the first ski trip they went on (I believe in 82) as husband/wife she didn't smile...but I'd seen pics of them on that trip with her smiling....this link came up I think because it was being talked about about the state of their marriage by this point....


LaRae

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Oh, what she was doing was definitely annoying, even to watch it from an outsider's perspective. I just thought it was interesting that Charles was at the point that he wasn't even trying to pretend to not be irritated by her antics.

I think I'd be irritated by my wife acting like an unruly child also, especially if I wanted to get a few photos out of the way to get on with my vacation.

 

[Lady Nimue]

What is remarkable about the behavior is that it was public behavior. She was in her late 20's and was a mother of two sons. Inexplicably, this behavior (excruciatingly embarrassing for everyone else involved) gets rationalized by supporters as 'understandable'. She had her reasons, it will be claimed. Color me amazed that anything like this very strange behavior can be seen as anything but 'off'.

Charles' reaction? This was his 'until death us do part' situation. He's in some private hell at this point I am sure. I understand it is at this juncture (1988) when he will re-connect with Camilla. It was on this ski trip that Charles' friend was killed in a skiing accident. Not a good time for Charles, and Diana was definitely uninterested in any wifely duties (being full-over into her relationship with James Hewitt). Charles' re-connecting with an old friend and lover makes sense to me.

Anyway, this is just one of several glaring examples of public behavior on Diana's part that reeked of a serious imbalance. Right then (if not long before) the marriage should have been dissolved. JMO.

 

[Pranter]

I don't think it reeked of imbalance...she'd been complained too that she needed to be more jolly like Sarah ...she and Sarah then got into trouble when they tried to be playful because folks thought it wasn't dignified etc.


LaRae

 

[caethi]

Anyway, this is just one of several glaring examples of public behavior on Diana's part that reeked of a serious imbalance. Right then (if not long before) the marriage should have been dissolved. JMO.

Diane had many serious mental health challenges but to ascribe this particular behavior to a "serious imbalance" is way over the top.

 

[Elan]

Although it didn't last very long, it's easy to forget the positive influence Sarah had on Diana at the time. Lightening up from depression, inhibitions was a good thing, even if their hijinks were on the juvenile side. Sarah was a friend Diana should have kept long term, regardless of a few bumps in the road. They had a lot of fun together while she was in the limelight, admired by Charles as well. To completely fall out like they did was not smart.

 

[Lady Nimue]

Well, I think it's unbalanced behavior (and I am being kind). How anyone can neatly tuck that embarrassment into the tucks and folds of being 'more jolly' confounds me. Imagine Sophie Wessex, or Camilla, or Catherine or Meghan, doing the same? Would it be seen as just being 'more jolly'? I think not.

More specifically, she was disrespectful of her husband. As a wife, and a pretty liberated one, just on a human level, I would never do that to my husband at one of his (or anyone's) red carpet events.

 

[Missjersey]

Well, I think it it's unbalanced behavior (and I am being kind). How anyone can neatly tuck that embarrassment into the tucks and folds of being 'more jolly' confounds me. Imagine Sophie Wessex, or Camilla, or Catherine or Meghan, doing the same? Would it be seen as just being 'more jolly'? I think not.

More specifically, she was disrespectful of her husband. As a wife, and a pretty liberated one, just on a human level, I would never do that to my husband at one of his (or anyone's) red carpet events.

....that’s because you have class Lady Nimue.

I don’t think Diana respected or gave a damn about anything other than being Queen (in her mind, she was untouchable-jmo).