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  #441  
Old 07-30-2013, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Frelinghighness View Post
I unintentionally came across a long interview on youtube of Charles and Diana before their marriage. It was quite illuminating.
I had heard and read that P Charles was jealous of the attention Diana received but always took everything about any divorced couple with a grain of salt.
But watching this interview, it was so obvious that P Charles was SO totally deferred to, and he seemed actually surprised when the attention was taken off him.
Diana seemed polite and honest in her answers. The handwriting was on the wall, imo he wanted a VERY old fashioned wife who totally deferred to him. She was just too young and modern. He has found the wife he wanted, she caters to him.
You are right, but in retrospect, what is the difference. He needed a wife that stayed in the background and he has that, now. He hated the attention Diana received, because he was raised to be the focus of attention. She is gone and he is still getting attention. So, who is the better off?
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  #442  
Old 07-31-2013, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post

You are right, but in retrospect, what is the difference. He needed a wife that stayed in the background and he has that, now. He hated the attention Diana received, because he was raised to be the focus of attention. She is gone and he is still getting attention. So, who is the better off?
I don't understand this post. I hate to admit it, but at first glance it seems like gloating that Diana died and Charles is still alive. I'm sure that's not what you meant, but thought I'd point out that it's how it might be construed.
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  #443  
Old 07-31-2013, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by casualfan View Post

I don't understand this post. I hate to admit it, but at first glance it seems like gloating that Diana died and Charles is still alive. I'm sure that's not what you meant, but thought I'd point out that it's how it might be construed.
I have to admit I agree!!!
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  #444  
Old 07-31-2013, 09:44 AM
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Diana was polite and deferential in that interview. I also agree that Prince Charles got jealous of the media focus on Diana. But I think the problem was more than Diana being "too young and modern." Their relationship was hurt when she deliberately upstaged him. She purposely did things to get the media to focus on her. For a few examples, see this article:
washingtonpost.com: International Special Report: Princess Diana, 1961-1997

Charles was shallow to be jealous, but wasn't Diana shallow when she got jealous when cameras were focusing on Charles? Diana also routinely upstaged the other members of the royal family.

I acknowledge that no matter what Diana did, the media would have preferred to focus on her. But if her marriage was truly important, she would have refrained from purposely upstaging Charles.
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  #445  
Old 07-31-2013, 11:45 AM
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The late Princess of Wales didn't upstage members of the royal family. Diana did say that the royals rather liked her...when she was Diana Spencer but some attitudes changed when she became HRH Princess of Wales. She still remained close to many of the royals though.

I guess it was Diana's fault that she was young, more approachable, and beautiful. Charles married a beautiful young woman and the media liked to focus on her. I don't think there's was much she could've done about that. She was HRH Princess of Wales, she had to publically support her husband, Queen, Royal family and the United Kingdom and Commonwealth. She couldn't take a backseat in her position. She did what she had to do as a senior member of the royal family and future Queen Consort.

The sad part is that many charities and different organizations did prefer her patronage and support than the other royals. When those organizations asked for royal support and for a member of the royal family to open they're centers, schools or what have you...it was Diana they asked for. I'm not sure the royals didn't like that very much but that wasn't Diana's fault. There were stuff she and her office turned down so other members of the family could do their thing.

The media put a great deal of focus on Diana. They obsessed about her wardrobe, hair, makeup, etc, but Diana couldn't do anything about that. She had to dress for her royal role and official duties, just like the other senior female members of the royal family before her and the other modern European royal ladies of today. Yes, in some ways she did use the media to her advantage and I guess we can argue over those reasons, pros and cons.

I think Diana did the best she could do as a senior member of the royal family and future Queen. She wasn't a saint or perfect but she was human. Humans make mistakes in life and the royals are human just like you and me. We stumble, make a couple of boo-boo's and keep stepping.

I think Diana was on her way to picking herself up, dusting herself off and get on with things at the time of her death. Her relationship with Charles was on friendly terms before her passing. I think her relationship with the father of her children was important to her. I think one of her close friends had mentioned in an interview that she often asked Charles for his advice about her charities and other ventures. His opinions were important to her and they talked on the phone and he would even make nice visits to her apartment at Kensington Palace.

Unfortunately, the media has chosen to focus and make a great deal of money on the tragedy of the Wales's marriage. There's a lot of stories and rumors that weren't true but these authors, royal correspondents and other members of the media have made they're careers off of the backs of this royal couple. They paint the Wales's in any light just to make money and I think it's a total shame, a slap in the face of Charles, William & Harry, the families and even Diana's memory.
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  #446  
Old 07-31-2013, 11:58 AM
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Sorry this is a little off topic. But I have read before that Alexandra (Wife of King Edward VII) who is considered The Diana of her Days (Generation), When she was still Princess of Wales she would get newspapers press and would get a lot of attention in public and especially at events and a lot of times the spotlight would be on the Prince and Princess of Wales which annoyed Queen Victoria because she thought all the attention was only suppose to be in her.

As someone said no one is suppose to outshine the Queen which is what Diana did.
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  #447  
Old 07-31-2013, 06:31 PM
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Everyone wants the new toy. I am sure it is the same with the D of Cb. She is probable most requesters first choice.
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  #448  
Old 07-31-2013, 06:50 PM
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Okay but my question is, what was Diana suppose to do? She couldn't help the fact that the media was interested or obsessed with her. She herself questioned why people was so interested in her clothing, her hair and everything else.

I couldn't see myself putting the blame on Diana but I did place the blame on the media. I think the media lots their minds when Diana came on the royal scene.

Then again, I think the media considered Diana a breath of fresh air against the old, stuffy and distant institution of that time. The Monarchy isn't the same as it used to be. Now we have the Duchess of Cambridge, Duchess of Cornwall, Countess of Wessex, William & Harry and Beatrice & Eugenie to loosen up the stuffiness and distant institution that Diana came into back in the day.
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  #449  
Old 07-31-2013, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Okay but my question is, what was Diana suppose to do? She couldn't help the fact that the media was interested or obsessed with her. She herself questioned why people was so interested in her clothing, her hair and everything else.
What was she supposed to do? Seek advice, for starters, and pay attention to that advice. Seek advice and not play up to the press the way she did. Seek advice and not play "me against the rest of the RF" games.

She couldn't help the fact the media was interested in her/obsessed with her, but she could control her relationship with them. She could have been more aloof and not fed them what they wanted. She did not need to make eye contact with the camera as much as she did, and she didn't need to cultivate relationships with the various reporters to draw attention to her and away from Charles. And she most certainly should not have given that hideous Panorama interview.
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  #450  
Old 07-31-2013, 07:16 PM
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Well, she did get on with things and her official duties. The royals today make eye contact with the media, especially Camilla.

We also have to remember, Charles was very stiff, starchy and formal back in those days. I think it was very easy for the media to put a lot of the focus on Diana who seemed more approachable and friendly. Charles isn't the same guy Diana married in 1981. He's more loose, a little less formal and willing to connect with the people more. He bends down to talk to children and disabled, he like laughing and joking with members of the crowds. He picks up babies and is a bit playful.

Also, Charles also gave an interview. They both shouldn't have done it but I guess when you're disappointed, depressed, feed up and sad that your marriage didn't work and the media blew everything up and there were tons of false rumors, you could go on to dumb or unwise stuff like that. I hear The Queen Mother wasn't pleased at all with Charles & Diana's actions.
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  #451  
Old 07-31-2013, 07:17 PM
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Diana was beautiful, photogenic, and fashionable (although many outfits look very dated now). Obviously the media was going to focus on her. If she hadn't become obsessed with her own press clippings and Charles had been jealous anyway, I would give the argument to Diana.

But the fact is, Diana herself was jealous when the cameras were not focused on her, so it was hypocritical for her (and her fans) to criticize Charles for being jealous.

The article I posted above gives two examples of Diana deliberately upstaging Charles. I've seen videos of when she was in the company of other members of the royal family and deliberately did things to focus the cameras on her. She would strike poses, make faces, etc...

Diana was better at getting media attention than Charles was. That didn't make her a bad person, but she knowingly made choices that hurt him and, therefore, their marriage. Then when her marriage broke down, Diana refused to take any responsibility.

To this day, some Diana fans continue to refuse to assign her any responsibility. They sometimes type things like, "she wasn't perfect," but then deny that she ever did anything wrong.

You also mentioned the supposed stuffiness of the royal family. She married Charles knowing that he was stuffy. It was a classic: "I love you, I adore you, now change" situation. If she didn't love Charles, she shouldn't have married him.
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  #452  
Old 07-31-2013, 07:38 PM
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Diana was a very jolly and lively person. She loved to laugh, interact with people she met and was very approachable. I really don't think she did things to take the attention off of the other family members. She was just being herself.

Also, I don't make excuses for Diana's actions. I place blame on the part she played in the breakdown of her marriage just as I do with Charles. They both did things they shouldn't have. It takes two to make a marriage go sour. Also, in her 1995 interview, Diana did take some responsibility for the breakdown of her marriage. she didn't say it was all Charles, Camilla or the royal family's fault. She aired her dirty laundry too.

What I don't make a habit of doing, is placing all the blame on Diana and make it seem like Charles, Camilla, royal family, media and men in grey coats didn't play a big part too. I make sure I spread the blame evenly and not all on a person who's no longer here to defend herself.

I also think the media did a very interesting job in making it seem like Diana was a saint or angle and the royal family were total monsters. I think the media is to cause of some putting a great deal of blame on Diana. I think that's shameful to her, her memory and a slap in the face to her two sons.

There was some good years Charles & Diana had together and with William & Harry. I think it's sad that people only focus on their marital troubles and ignore the good stuff that was there.
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  #453  
Old 07-31-2013, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Diana was a very jolly and lively person. She loved to laugh, interact with people she met and was very approachable. I really don't think she did things to take the attention off of the other family members. She was just being herself.
As you have admitted, most of the media attention was naturally on Diana. That fact that she couldn't occasionally tone it down and allow some media attention for Charles and other members of the royal family provides a major clue as to how important her marriage actually was to her. Being happy in a marriage requires a series of compromises. Not playing the piano during a joint appearance with Charles doesn't seem like a big sacrifice for someone who wants to make her marriage work.

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Also, in her 1995 interview, Diana did take some responsibility for the breakdown of her marriage. she didn't say it was all Charles, Camilla or the royal family's fault. She aired her dirty laundry too.
Diana apparently mouthed the words that she shared responsibility for the breakdown of the marriage but she didn't elaborate. She certainly spelled out Charles's shortcomings--as she saw them--in detail. I think she only mentioned her affair with James Hewitt because he went public. She certainly didn't admit to her other affairs. I've read nothing that indicates that Diana understood how her behavior alienated Charles.


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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
There was some good years Charles & Diana had together and with William & Harry. I think it's sad that people only focus on their marital troubles and ignore the good stuff that was there.
I agree that there were good times, it's obvious from many of the videos. But Diana denied that there were any good times in the Morton book. The book denounced the whole marriage as a sham because she alleged that Charles never loved her and kept Camilla on the side throughout the marriage. That's why the world still focuses on the War of the Wales.
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  #454  
Old 07-31-2013, 08:59 PM
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At the time of the Morton book, Diana was pretty upset and said things that weren't totally true. She, friends and others have mentioned that there were good times in her marriage.

Also the media pretty much like to focus on the drama of the Wales's marriage because people like to read about drama and juicy details. A lot of money and careers were made off of the drama. Some members of the media used Charles & Diana marriage for their own financial gain, even if they had to make up false stories and site "unnamed" resources for back up.

All wasn't total hell for the couple. There are videos, pictures and stories from those who knew the couple personally that Charles & Diana enjoyed each other and their family. I think others should put some focus on those good days of laughter, jokes, fun and family.
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  #455  
Old 07-31-2013, 09:30 PM
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It wasn't just the book. During her TV interview three years later, she also made her famous comment about her marriage being crowded because there were "three of us" in the marriage. She planned the line in advance and knew it would be the most quoted line from the interview.

The quote was meant to reinforce the public's impression that the only reason the marriage failed was Charles's affair with Camilla. The only purpose of the interview was to destroy Charles.

It says a lot about his character that after all her efforts to destroy him, he made the first move to repair their relationship after the divorce. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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  #456  
Old 07-31-2013, 09:46 PM
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Yeah, sadly when couples are fitting and upset with each other, they sometimes try to hit each other below the belt with words. I think Diana even told a friend that she went on to regret the interview. I think one of her drivers even told her that she should've let Charles look like the fool with his interview the year before she did hers. I don't think she liked his comments much and didn't talk to the driver for a while after that. Couples-married or not-fighting isn't pretty, especially when it's being done in public.

I'm glad they got on a good footing before her passing. I heard that when Charles got the call that Diana had been in an accident in Paris, he was getting himself prepared to fly there to be at her side. Sadly he was informed that she had died and he would have to bring her body back home. I think it was during the inquest that I read and heard Charles broke down on viewing her body at the hospital. It's such a sad thing that he lost her. I know some only saw them as enemies but I think there was real love there...on both parts.
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  #457  
Old 07-31-2013, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post

We also have to remember, Charles was very stiff, starchy and formal back in those days. I think it was very easy for the media to put a lot of the focus on Diana who seemed more approachable and friendly. Charles isn't the same guy Diana married in 1981. He's more loose, a little less formal and willing to connect with the people more. He bends down to talk to children and disabled, he like laughing and joking with members of the crowds. He picks up babies and is a bit playful.
I made the observation about that pre-wedding interview I'd never seen, not to have a judgement on whose fault it was the marriage broke up! I have known enough divorced couples, dozens it seems, to know that it is always BOTH their faults (unless in cases of physical abuse)
Your comment above about how P Charles behaved is what I was after.
The interviewer is so deferential to Charles, and he is so used to taking over, it was interesting to watch. Yes, I do think he "loosened up" and modernized. That, and the way the children are able to handle themselves in the world they find themselves is one way she made her mark.
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  #458  
Old 07-31-2013, 10:33 PM
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I was just thinking, Diana had talked about calling off the wedding at the last minutes but decided not too because their faces were on Tea Towels, etc.

Could you imagine the reaction there would have been if Diana had actually called off the wedding? Just a thought.
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  #459  
Old 07-31-2013, 11:04 PM
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I was just thinking, Diana had talked about calling off the wedding at the last minutes but decided not too because their faces were on Tea Towels, etc.

Could you imagine the reaction there would have been if Diana had actually called off the wedding? Just a thought.
It would have caused a bit of a kerfuffle for a while, but it would have been preferable in the long run.
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  #460  
Old 07-31-2013, 11:06 PM
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I would like to suggest that the moderators move this thread to the archives. Diana has been dead a king time and Charles is happily remarried. Rehashing things is not going to change anything. Time for a new start with the new baby.
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