The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #461  
Old 07-27-2006, 11:12 AM
felicia's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 160
Yes I've come across all that when I was doing my genalogical research on the descendents of Mary Boleyn. (Anne Boleyn's sister and another ancestor of Sarah, Duchess of York). But I think I and most others would say Sarah was not born an aristocrat herself since she was not Lady Sarah or Hon. Sarah or anything like that, she had no title. But there was some noble ancestry there, yes. Sophie has some too going back to Edward III. Since there is nothing wrong with aristocratic blood, there is no need to have or want someone without it. We need an equal marriage for a change - William and Theodora!
__________________

__________________
  #462  
Old 07-27-2006, 03:11 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: los angeles, United States
Posts: 52
other candidates

Quote:
Originally Posted by felicia
No they don't "need" any "new blood" any more because there has not been any inbreeding for ages in the direct royal line leading down to William.
how close does the relationship have to be for it to be considered inbreeding? Even if we just start with the descendents Queen Victoria there has been quite a lot of mixing. His grandparents are cousins (HM and DoE). Even if he married into the Greek family they are considered cousins too through the DoE rather removed but there are blood ties there nonetheless. I think that if a dynastic match was sought there are some very aristocratic or princely continental families he can look to for a bride and not just Charlotte of Monaco. Sometimes these girls are mentioned out of the blue but they exist.

There was a post I beleive in the Cit Chat section about the bridal firm Pronovias using several of these young ladies for an article showcasing their new collection and telling a little something about their backgrounds. There are many options!
__________________

__________________
  #463  
Old 07-27-2006, 05:57 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by felicia
No they don't "need" any "new blood" any more because there has not been any inbreeding for ages in the direct royal line leading down to William. They have enough common blood already, with the daughters of Earls marrying in. Theodora would be new blood, she and William are very distantly related. Their closest common ancestor is Queen Victoria I think and that was 6 generations ago for William and 5 for Theodora.
There closest common ancestor would surely be George I of the Hellenes (I make them both only 4 generations from George I)

George - Andrew - Philip (DOE) - Charles - William
George - Constantine - Paul - Constantine - Theordore (might have the wrong person at the earlier Constantine level - was he the father of Paul or was it his brother?)

From Victoria

Victoria - Edward VII - George V- George VI - Elizabeth - Charles - William
Victoria - Victoria - Louise - Paul - Constantine - Theodora (if my research is correct regarding names here)
__________________
  #464  
Old 07-27-2006, 08:02 PM
Roslyn's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tintenbar, Australia
Posts: 2,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimebear
Yes it would be nice if he made a dynastic marriage, but only if it is a love match. I do not really care how blue the blood is, if it only results in a cold loveless marriage. The next generation of royalty is in their hands and it would be a shame if the next monarch was raised in an atmosphere of quiet resentment or just cold contempt. I think William and Harry are dating out of their circle because they have seen first hand that marrying within it doesn't always work out for the best. A woman of common blood does not necessarily lack the grace, poise, honor and dignity that is desirable of a future queen.
I see no particular virtue in William making a dynastic marriage these days, but otherwise share these sentiments, Kimebear.

What is it that we expect from a Queen consort today? Where is the precedent? We haven't had one for over 50 years, and the way the RF behaves vis a vis the public has changed considerably since the Queen Mother's days as Queen Consort. We expect the Royals to do a lot more PR today: to put on a show and earn their keep. We expect them to do more than smile and wave as the travel from one official function to another. They need certain skills that were not required of previous Queen Consorts, and I believe the necessary skills can be learned by the right person.

Yes, the Queen Consort will also be required to mix with other Royals and Heads of State, so needs certain social graces, but no more so than the wife of any major Head of State. A good education, preferably tertiary, and disciplined, enquiring mind, are more important than bloodlines, I think. If the person is genuinely compatible with the Royal spouse, is intelligent and knows what her duties are and is given the support she needs from the numerous available experts in protocol etc., she should be able to do the job well. And I think having a happy monarch is a very good thing, even if he and his wife are "boring".

I also think it's time for some innovative thinking, too. I applaud Diana for some of her views and the way she introduced her sons to the idea of mixing with ordinary people and getting to understand the way they live and what their concerns are and how she could help them. IMO this was a very good thing and there needs to be more of it. I think it would be good for William to marry someone not of noble birth, who has grown up in a middle class home, with middle class knowledge and concerns rather than to move back into the detached world of someone who has had a Royal or aristocratic upbringing.

People have spoken about the dificulties commoners face in adapting to life in the institution of the Monarchy, but the institution can be made to adapt, too. Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II has reigned for a very long time, and though she has initiated many changes, it still reflects her personality and upbringing and views. While I don't expect many changes under Charles, I expect William to do so. I believe that in a modern Constitutional Monarchy the monarchy must continue to adapt to be relevant to the modern world, otherwise the Republican movement may prove irresistable to the majority of the population.
__________________
  #465  
Old 07-27-2006, 08:04 PM
HRH Elizabeth's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Well, for one thing, Kate always seems to be sulky and frowning. She was a bit of a wimp over the whole press thing and I just think, if you don't like it now, then it aint gonna get any better darling. I don't like the fact that she's not from an aristocratic background at all. I want a bit of class and breeding in my RF. I find Kate boring and plasticky and IMO William is very boring and plasticky. I just see them as a bland couple with no personality and that can't be a good thing.
This is a very interesting topic, especially because people feel so strongly about it. I find myself on the fence…while I absolutely hope that William finds a wife he can love, at the same time I find myself wondering if a true commoner would be able to adapt. People have mentioned the new crown princesses such as Mette Marit and Letizia, but it is important to note that Norway is a country with no nobility and a far less pronounced class system, and Letizia and Mary have only been royals for a few years; it remains to be seen if their marriages will last. At the same time, it is entirely possible that a common born woman might be a wonderful queen (one need look no further than Silvia of Sweden).
When it comes to Kate, I am less troubled by the lack of blue blood than I am by what I perceive as a lack of charisma. I agree with Beatrixfan about Kate in general, and while I could possibly be ok with a commoner, Kate strikes me as a particularly common one. William might be stable but he is not especially exciting, and it would be nice for him to marry a charismatic woman (not as dominating as Diana), but someone to invigorate the monarchy in a dignified way.

By the way, Beatrixfan, I was wondering what you would think of a woman who in terms of personality and upbringing was suited to marrying into royalty, and is descended from many royal and noble persons but has no title herself. For instance, someone with a genealogy similar to Sarah, Duchess of York (but far better behaved); perhaps a distant cousin of the Queen and descendent of Charlemagne but not an actual aristocrat. Would you overlook the lack of title because of the mixture of breeding, character and distant royal/noble blood, or would the title be tantamount?
__________________
  #466  
Old 07-27-2006, 08:06 PM
BeatrixFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,843
Oh I'd look over the lack of a title if the pedigree was there but a title is always nice and I'd certainly give it a priority.
__________________
  #467  
Old 07-27-2006, 09:12 PM
felicia's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 160
Theodora is descended from Queen Victoria at least twice:

Victoria - Arthur - Margaret - Ingrid - Anne-Marie - Theodora

and

Victoria - Victoria - Sophie - Paul - Constantine - Theodora

There may be another link as well. I think this means Theodora actually has more of Queen Victoria's blood than William, although he is descended from QV through both the Queen and Prince Philip.


You are right that the closer genetic link is through George I of the Hellenes. I didn't think of that at the time. Still I am sure that it is a gentic fact that there would be absolutely no genetic risk for them in getting married. They are not that closely related. I would consider it inbreeding if they were first cousins or double second cousins, and they are not even close to being that.
__________________
  #468  
Old 07-27-2006, 09:17 PM
felicia's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 160
Quote:
By the way, Beatrixfan, I was wondering what you would think of a woman who in terms of personality and upbringing was suited to marrying into royalty, and is descended from many royal and noble persons but has no title herself. For instance, someone with a genealogy similar to Sarah, Duchess of York (but far better behaved); perhaps a distant cousin of the Queen and descendent of Charlemagne but not an actual aristocrat. Would you overlook the lack of title because of the mixture of breeding, character and distant royal/noble blood, or would the title be tantamount?
I know the question isn't addressed to me, but I thought I would offer my opinion since I am so fixated on this. I would be okay with William marrying a title-less lady if she had some royal or noble background, a good education, and was a charismatic, hard-working and suitable lady. I compiled a list of all eligible descendents of Queen Victoria - I will try and post it later if I find it. I considered them having to be born in the 1980s to be eligible.
__________________
  #469  
Old 07-27-2006, 09:49 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Annapolis, United States
Posts: 443
But he likes Kate best.
__________________
  #470  
Old 07-27-2006, 10:14 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 18
I think a good queen with no royal background at all will be better than a bad queen with lineage, don't you think so? I agree with you (in general) saying that would be better if he marries an aristocratic woman but, what if she ends up being a terrible queen? You know, she can have all the blue blood you want, but if she doesn't do what she should do her blood will be nothing. On the other hand, the woman can be a commoner but still with a good education and a great sense of what is expected from her and fulfill it ... I think we are not anymore in the 19 century and there're now more important things to think about than her lineage, it doesn't guarantee anything when it comes to the good work she could do or all the help she could give to people.
__________________
  #471  
Old 07-27-2006, 11:38 PM
Australian's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 2,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn
I think it would be good for William to marry someone not of noble birth, who has grown up in a middle class home, with middle class knowledge and concerns rather than to move back into the detached world of someone who has had a Royal or aristocratic upbringing.
.
This is what I was trying to say. I completely agree with this notion.
__________________
  #472  
Old 07-27-2006, 11:53 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Annapolis, United States
Posts: 443
I too agree. And also someone whose family life was stable and loving, as apparently Kate's was, judging by her close association with her mother and sis. God please no more aristocratic brides with mommy or daddy issues.:o
__________________
  #473  
Old 07-28-2006, 01:05 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: , Canada
Posts: 1,692
People with mommy or daddy issues are not exclusive to any social economic class. Coming from different backgrounds do cause problems in any relationship. It really comes down to the couple involved and how well they communicate their individual experiences/hopes/etc to each other.
__________________
  #474  
Old 07-28-2006, 01:39 AM
TonyaR's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: *, United States
Posts: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRH Elizabeth
....When it comes to Kate, I am less troubled by the lack of blue blood than I am by what I perceive as a lack of charisma. I agree with Beatrixfan about Kate in general, and while I could possibly be ok with a commoner, Kate strikes me as a particularly common one. William might be stable but he is not especially exciting, and it would be nice for him to marry a charismatic woman (not as dominating as Diana), but someone to invigorate the monarchy in a dignified way...
I think Kate invigorates P. William! She is obviously good for him: for instance, she is the person who convinced him to continue on with his studies when he wanted to quit University. and as mentioned by Luv2Cruise
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luv2Cruise
But he likes Kate best.
I think Incas has it right and people have to have common ground. Kate and William do have common ground, they have more than 3 years of shared experiences together at University, they have lived together and more importantly, had a chance to actually share some of the little, mundane things that can sometimes make or break a relationship. Kate has (probably)woken up in the morning and cooked William's breakfast for him at least once or twice, they may have even cooked a meal or done laundry together.

They've probably had study sessions together/with their flatmates, nights out at the local pub, and lots of friends in common, as well being of a similiar age, etc. Participating in these types of things can help people to learn one another, and show if a person is suited to your personality or not.

Kate is not aristocracy or nobility, but she is well educated, intelligent, attractive and VERY Sloan Rangerish, and her 'bland' outlook seems to suit William to a Tee! How do we know that she doesn't have something in her personality that he finds totally essential to a lasting relationship?

I actually do NOT believe that Prince William has made up his mind to marry 'Catherine Elizabeth Middleton', but I do think she is definitely the strongest contender (so far) for the position of 'Queen in Waiting'.
__________________
“Promise me you'll always remember: You're braver than you believe, ..stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think.”
~Christopher Robin to Pooh
(A.A. Milne)
  #475  
Old 07-28-2006, 01:43 AM
felicia's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksenia
how close does the relationship have to be for it to be considered inbreeding? Even if we just start with the descendents Queen Victoria there has been quite a lot of mixing. His grandparents are cousins (HM and DoE). Even if he married into the Greek family they are considered cousins too through the DoE rather removed but there are blood ties there nonetheless. I think that if a dynastic match was sought there are some very aristocratic or princely continental families he can look to for a bride and not just Charlotte of Monaco. Sometimes these girls are mentioned out of the blue but they exist.

There was a post I beleive in the Cit Chat section about the bridal firm Pronovias using several of these young ladies for an article showcasing their new collection and telling a little something about their backgrounds. There are many options!

That's right, there are many options. But remember, she must not be a Catholic. Charlotte of Monaco is not an option therefore. I have compiled a list and there are indeed many suitable contenders. Every royal family has one in its extended members. Victoria Ribeiro in the Norweigan Royal Family (she is a descendent of Edward VII) and Juliana Guillermo in the Dutch Royal Family are of appropriate ages.
__________________
  #476  
Old 07-28-2006, 01:47 AM
felicia's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissy57
There closest common ancestor would surely be George I of the Hellenes (I make them both only 4 generations from George I)

George - Andrew - Philip (DOE) - Charles - William
George - Constantine - Paul - Constantine - Theordore (might have the wrong person at the earlier Constantine level - was he the father of Paul or was it his brother?)
This is right. Constantine was Paul's father.


Quote:
From Victoria

Victoria - Edward VII - George V- George VI - Elizabeth - Charles - William
Victoria - Victoria - Louise - Paul - Constantine - Theodora (if my research is correct regarding names here)
No it's Victoria - Victoria - SOPHIE - Paul - Constantine - Theodora.
__________________
  #477  
Old 07-28-2006, 02:44 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: san francisco, United States
Posts: 1,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by felicia
That's right, there are many options. But remember, she must not be a Catholic. Charlotte of Monaco is not an option therefore. I have compiled a list and there are indeed many suitable contenders. Every royal family has one in its extended members. Victoria Ribeiro in the Norweigan Royal Family (she is a descendent of Edward VII) and Juliana Guillermo in the Dutch Royal Family are of appropriate ages.
Juliana Guillermo is indeed a well kept secret. Gorgeously exotic looks, discreet personality, lives in london even and had a grandmother who was queen, to boot.
__________________
  #478  
Old 07-28-2006, 09:01 AM
felicia's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 160
Yes she is a great choice. I would be very happy if Juliana Guillermo of the Netherlands and William were to marry. She is Queen Juliana's grand-daughter and a highly suitable Queen for William. I do not think they are related at all. Juliana is not a descendent of Queen Victoria as far as I know.
__________________
  #479  
Old 07-28-2006, 11:24 AM
HRH Elizabeth's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luv2Cruise
But he likes Kate best.
For now, that's absolutely true, which makes our discussion entirely hypothetical.
__________________
  #480  
Old 07-28-2006, 11:31 AM
felicia's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 160
Hopefully he won't like her best for long. He is still very young, there's plenty of time left for various girlfriends, before he decides to marry. That's why it annoys me when Kate is described as 'bride-to-be' or royal bride in waiting - I mean how ridiculous. They could break up next week. We and the press have no way of knowing when it will end and how.
__________________

__________________
Closed Thread

Tags
marriage, prince harry, prince william


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
William, Harry and girlfriends and the press Ava Elizabeth Prince Harry and Prince William 1228 11-11-2010 03:49 PM
Prince Harry News Thread 1: Dec 2002 - Sept 2003 Kelly B Current Events Archive 109 09-26-2003 04:03 PM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince felipe crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta cristina infanta elena jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg olympic games ottoman pom prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince laurent prince pieter-christiaan princess princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess claire princess eleonore princess elisabeth princess haya princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess marie princess mary princess of asturias queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen paola queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia spain state visit wedding william


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:43 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]