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  #1161  
Old 10-21-2019, 05:50 AM
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Posts about the ITV "An African Journey"documentary on the Duke and Duchess of Sussex and their trip to Africa have been moved here:

British Royal Family: Documentaries, DVDs, Films and TV shows
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  #1162  
Old 10-21-2019, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
*They got married in a large ceremony...others have as well.
Never heard they were criticised for having a "large wedding ceremony". I guess they would have gotten criticised if they didn´t. So, well done H and M but not an example for how they are treated badly...

There were complaints regarding the cost and made up expenses by the media until the official security cost came out.

*Go on tours representing the UK....others have done that.
*Help charities out with fundraising projects....check that one off as well.
*Speak up on behalf of women....royals have done that as well.
But with the focus and weight on representing on this tour and charities and not so much talk about the mean press and how hard and awful everything is!




*Have elaborate parties (especially birthday parties)...
Here it´s about style and taste. M. could have invited some friends to a salon in Kensington Palace and still would have had the same fun with the same baby presents. But no, it had to be NY city in a posh hotel (I think it was). Again, here taste between Europe and America differ also. In Europe we do private things like these a bit more modest, not like upstarts.

Europe does not do things more modest or private.... there were pi

*Wear jeans to Wimbledon... also done
Who from the Royal Family ever wore jeans in Wimbledon?! In the 1970s and 80s it was the current Dss of Kent: never jeans; before that, her mother-in-law: certainly no jeans!!! Princess Diana never wore jeans in Wimbledon so never did her daughter-in-law Catherine.
[B]But this was not about wearing jeans! It was about Meghan acting like a primadonna by titeling her stay there "private" and forbode being pictures taken of her!

*Visit famous friends during vacations/holidays...again done
Others didn´t damn air pollution and didn´t claim whenever possible how important it is to save our planet and that everyone has to do his/ her bit to help the environment and minimize carbon dioxide while going on private jets flights within days. They could have invited old Elton, saying, "Elton, you know about our campaigns, you know how it will look like when we fly all these miles down to your retreat with a private plane! Just let´s delay it a few weeks and come to our house at Frogmore!"
What´s so hard about that? Is that too much of a "sacrifice"? I mean, do they want to be taken seriously or not?!

*Spend money renovating a home for their family....
The criticism was targeted against the height of the costs, not that they had to "renovate"...


*Touch baby bumpy, eat avocados, close car doors... check, check, check
*Wear one sleeve or sleeveless dresses...done
Haven´t heard about these things, sounds tabloid to me. Nothing to get mad at these peanuts.
*Wedding- there were made up expenses and exaggerated cost by the media and didn't settle down until the official cost came out and the RRs had to eat their words.

*Your response to speak up on behalf of women doesn't make much sense to me, Meghan does it with her patronages, special projects and with all three tours and were the topics....anyone who watched the tour saw it.

*Don't kid yourself Europeans aren't more modest with their partying we actually saw some of the royal family share pictures of these elaborate parties. We didn't see any from Meghan's shower. As for the location that is determined by the host and were the majority of the people can met.

*Wimbledon- the fact is it has been done and just because Diana or Catherine didn't do it doesn't make it not royal and doesn't mean Meghan has to do whatever they did/do.

*The comment about the vacations doesn't make any sense to me either because William and Charles both have spoken out about climate changes and also take private jets and also accept gifts/vacations from friends.

*The renovations at FC have been some of the cheapest of all of the royal revonvations.

*The things you are dismissing as tabloids is part of the WHOLE problem, these tabloids are violating their privacy, making up things and spreading lies about the couple which are then taken as truth by many. and it is Harry and Meghan who taken the heat because they dare stand up to those actions.
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  #1163  
Old 10-22-2019, 12:18 PM
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It is obvious that there have been lots of things going on and wrong.

The newspapers have published tittle tattle.
The have criticised H and M and probably printed rubbish.

Social media has been vile, and that is what we are on.

The Sussexs have done things differently and it didn't always go down well. They are not perfect , although not everybody on here will agree with that.

Nobody on here can possibly know what went on behind the scenes, was help offered, not offered, refused. Advice not given or refused.

We need to accept we do not know, by mis calling the rest of the family you are doing what you accuse the media of doing to the Sussexs.

Somebody spoke about Meghan riding in the car to church with the queen, well she has been in Balmoral all summer, they could have visited.
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  #1164  
Old 10-24-2019, 02:48 PM
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Article by Allison Pearson [Daily Telegraph] on the current issues facing the Duke and Duchess - with 'pointers' as to how best address them..
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  #1165  
Old 10-24-2019, 02:53 PM
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Continued :
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  #1166  
Old 10-24-2019, 02:55 PM
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David Aaronovitch in The Times today suggesting Harry and Meghan should quit the Royal Family if they can't accept being under scrutiny.





https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/c...ways-q72kdhj53
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  #1167  
Old 10-24-2019, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Article by Allison Pearson [Daily Telegraph] on the current issues facing the Duke and Duchess - with 'pointers' as to how best address them..
Well....she's not exactly totally wrong. A great many of these pointers are very much putting into print exactly what's being said amongst the common people at the moment.
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  #1168  
Old 10-24-2019, 03:39 PM
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Funny how there’s absolutely no acknowledgement of the bullying campaign Meghan has been hit with in that long exhausting article, Allison Pearson, wrote.

I don’t believe Harry and Meghan have a problem with the burden of their royal roles and duties — that people are hinting on them to abandon. From what I gather — they have a problem with the campaign that’s against them. No royal or anyone else can properly function with their lives as new parents and with a demanding job when there’s an ongoing unjust smear campaign against them. The Sussexes are being asked to do the impossible.

IMO, what Pearson and others in the press want Harry and Meghan to do is accept the media abuse and sit down somewhere. The responses from some in the press to Harry and Meghan’s very understandable concerns is rather heartless. Of course, I think that was expected. They’re having fun doing this to the couple. I think Harry and Meghan speaking out about is spoiling their fun.

I still say this couple need the family to publicly back them and help others understand their concern over the situation. The family silence isn’t helping at all, IMO.
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  #1169  
Old 10-24-2019, 03:58 PM
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But here's the thing...I would guess that at one point or another we've all been the target of a "smear campaign" or a mean-girls type situation. I know I have both at school and a work at one point or another over the years. Yes, it's hard. Yes, it makes it hard to function and takes a toll on your physical and mental health. However, coming out with a sob story and a "woe is me" kind of story, especially when it's very poorly timed (filming that in Africa after meeting limbless children was poorly timed, period) does not help your case. It makes you look whiny.

Most of us at one point or another have had to bite our lips, bide our time, and wait it out until the situation got better or we removed ourselves and found another position, a different school, etc. What they've done is basically the equivalent of coming home sad about being bullied, allowed your mother to talk to the school, the school talks to the bullies, and the bullying is made even worse than it would have been if you'd just kept your mouth shut. Is it right? No. It isn't right. But it is true. This whole sob story, feel bad for us, poor little rich girl, woe is me routine is only going to backfire if it hasn't already because of the way it was put out there, the way it was perceived, and the way they went about it (poor timing, etc.).
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  #1170  
Old 10-24-2019, 04:00 PM
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General News about the Sussex Family, Part One: May 2019 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
Well....she's not exactly totally wrong. A great many of these pointers are very much putting into print exactly what's being said amongst the common people at the moment.


She’s not totally wrong. Agreed.

IMO- the best advice was basically to focus on all the considerable good in your life and not the press. (Not her exact words- but the general idea.) They have so much going for them it’s ridiculous. They really do. They can and have done a lot of good. They have things in their lives other people would love- each other, a healthy child, no money issues, etc. Don’t let the press ruin your life. That IS a choice.

By all means- sue when necessary.... and move on. Meghan said she’d block out the noise- so do so. Why give them so much power? It’s lousy. I agree. But- everyone has had their fair share of bad press. Camilla’s was probably the worst.

I don’t agree with everything- to suggest William is only communicating with Harry by the media- no one has a clue what their relationship really is right now- much less communication methods.

I do get tired of reading Meghan traveled across the ocean to watch a tennis match. She went to support her friend Serena. Not just watch a game. That changes the context a lot.

But she made a lot of fair points. The timing was poor- during their trip to Africa is a bad time to complain, the release over shadowed both their work and the BRF’s other big projects, etc.
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  #1171  
Old 10-24-2019, 04:12 PM
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In the ill-advised People Magazine article where the DoS's anonymous friends spoke on her behalf, the point was made that Meghan did not read anything about herself online, that she was happily oblivious and determined to just get on with it and block out the "noise".

So....what happened? Did she start listening to the noise or was that never true to begin with?

I have sympathy for the Sussexes, but only up to a point. The late Diana Princess of Wales often spoke of how overwhelmed she was at the beginning of Royal life when she was being called a spoilt temperamental brat who was running away staff, jealous of the Royal nannies, screaming and throwing stuff at Prince Charles etc. She said there were times she was cowering in the limousine on the way to Royal engagements, convinced that she would be greeted by boos and jeers from the crowds who were reading the tabloids.

Then she decided it was "sink or swim, and I decided to swim" or something similar(Diana Her True Story)

Granted, this was before the horrors of social media trolls and bullies, but I am old enough to remember the tabloid headlines of "DIABOLICAL DI" and I remember how massive the circulation for that type of press was in the 80's and 90's. The princess was never booed or jeered. Her charm was utilized to the max and she became a legendary beloved figure in Britain and the world.

No one from the BRF came to HER aid publicly except for the infamous "winegums" incident a few months after the wedding.

The Sussexes are older and much more worldly than barely-out-of-her-teens Diana. I am not understanding why the BRF needs to fly to their aid en masse now. HMQ, the Prince of Wales showed incredible support to Meghan during the ugly family drama that preceded the wedding, and again at the birth of Archie with the symbolic photo of HMQ and the DoE with the baby and Meghan's mother days after birth at Windsor-a privilege that was not afforded to the Cambridges with Prince George or any of their children.

They also sat on their hands when the Cambridges were being hammered for what the press and public felt were too many family holidays with the Middletons. There was no statement or gesture of solidarity with the nude photos of Kate on the French holiday.

Meghan was greeted rapturously at her public appearance a few nights ago. The vitriol online and in the print has NOT translated to the man/woman on the street.

I think the optics of the BRF rushing to publicly hold the Sussexes hands right now will make the situation worse-not better. I think they should ignore the "noise" and get on with it and let their actions going forward do all the talking.
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  #1172  
Old 10-24-2019, 04:26 PM
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I feel for Meghan and Harry. It cannot be nice to have horrid false stories written that you cannot refute or even when you can, either no one believes it or the fake story has so much traction the truth doesn't see the light. It has to be really frustrating.

And yes, sometimes the stories are really vile because Meghan is bi-racial. But without that element, nothing is any worse than other women in the BRF have experienced.

Most of the worst stories over the past 17 months have been at the hands of Meghan's paternal family, some media folks including the one with a vendetta, and the 20 or so online beasts that almost all false, nasty stories on social media have been traced back to.

The entire press should not be tarred with the same brush. That seems to be a mistake on H & M's part.

I am wildly speculating here, but Harry sounds too emotional to view things dispassionately. The camera click quote seems not rational. Somewhere I read that Harry is still viewing his mother through his 12 year old eyes, that seems true. Diana was not completely innocent in the media wars.

And while Meghan is an intelligent, accomplished woman--she has had enormous changes, changes that created stress--even happy changes create stress!--in her life. She moved to a new country, got married, changed jobs and had a baby in less than 2 years. She did have a couple really admirable projects--the cookbook and the clothing collection--that really made a difference. But I think overall diving in was a mistake and dipping her toes into the water, bit by bit would have been a better plan wile she got used to all the changes.
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  #1173  
Old 10-24-2019, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post

Somewhere I read that Harry is still viewing his mother through his 12 year old eyes, that seems true. Diana was not completely innocent in the media wars.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but the idea in the quote above is something that I have been thinking about ever since I watched the documentary. The evidence seems to indicate that because Diana died when Harry was so young, his view of her and her interactions with the press are not nuanced at all, and unfortunately, that lack of perspective is carrying over into his view of and interactions with the press now. Also unfortunately, this has some implications for his and Meghan's relationship with the UK press in the long term, and I am beginning to wonder what the end point of all this is. The irony of Harry basically repeating his mother's pattern of feeding the press while at the same time loathing their intrusions and blaming them for the lack of privacy is so striking that I can hardly believe that he is missing the parallels.
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  #1174  
Old 10-24-2019, 04:40 PM
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Allison Pearson's article is masterful! Every paragraph, right on the mark. Bravo!
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  #1175  
Old 10-24-2019, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but the idea in the quote above is something that I have been thinking about ever since I watched the documentary. The evidence seem to indicate that because Diana died when Harry was so young, his view of her and her interactions with the press are not nuanced at all, and unfortunately, that lack of perspective is carrying over into his view of and interactions with the press now. Also unfortunately, this has some implications for his and Meghan's relationship with the UK press in the long term, and I am beginning to wonder what the end point of all this is. The irony of Harry basically repeating his mother's pattern of feeding the press while at the same time loathing their intrusions and blaming them for the lack of privacy is so striking that I can hardly believe that he is missing the parallels.
Yes, Harry seems to be much like his mother and I too am seeing the similarities. I think Harry is too close to the situation to see the parallels, but I agree they are there.
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  #1176  
Old 10-24-2019, 04:53 PM
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How are Harry & Meghan responsible for the Range Rovers? There’s a whole division responsible for making decisions regarding their security. It’s comments like that which are disingenuous and hypocritical that infuriate people. It’s not even a legitimate criticism because a royal reporter or anyone with any experience in this area would know who handles all royal security protocol.
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  #1177  
Old 10-24-2019, 04:56 PM
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How are Harry & Meghan responsible for the Range Rovers? There’s a whole division responsible for making decisions regarding their security. It’s comments like that which are disingenuous and hypocritical that infuriate people. It’s not even a legitimate criticism because a royal reporter or anyone with any experience in this area would know who handles all royal security protocol.
Well, I have to agree with you there. That is beyond their control.
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  #1178  
Old 10-24-2019, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
But here's the thing...I would guess that at one point or another we've all been the target of a "smear campaign" or a mean-girls type situation. I know I have both at school and a work at one point or another over the years. Yes, it's hard. Yes, it makes it hard to function and takes a toll on your physical and mental health. However, coming out with a sob story and a "woe is me" kind of story, especially when it's very poorly timed (filming that in Africa after meeting limbless children was poorly timed, period) does not help your case. It makes you look whiny.

Most of us at one point or another have had to bite our lips, bide our time, and wait it out until the situation got better or we removed ourselves and found another position, a different school, etc. What they've done is basically the equivalent of coming home sad about being bullied, allowed your mother to talk to the school, the school talks to the bullies, and the bullying is made even worse than it would have been if you'd just kept your mouth shut. Is it right? No. It isn't right. But it is true. This whole sob story, feel bad for us, poor little rich girl, woe is me routine is only going to backfire if it hasn't already because of the way it was put out there, the way it was perceived, and the way they went about it (poor timing, etc.).
Well, so have I. The difference is we didn’t have to go through it on the world stage. Also, none of us have to take a vicious smear campaign lying down either. Everyone have the right to set the record straight and fight back. The royals have that right, too.

I don’t think Harry and Meghan are trying to get anyone to feel sorry for them. They’re just living in their truth and standing up for themselves. They kept quiet about the unjust bullying for the entire summer. They didn’t say a peep. Now, we know during that time, they were at home trying to cope under the strain of the campaign and it took a heavy toll on them.

These are the same royals that are leading an anti bullying campaign called Heads Together. They are working incredibly hard to get people to talk about their problems and stop suffering in silence. In order to get the campaign started: Harry, William and Catherine decided to talk about their own personal issues and struggles —

Harry:
Talked about having a hard time dealing with his mothers death over the years and having to grieve in the public eye.

William:
He talked about his stress on seeing devastating accidents and bad situations during his time as a helicopter pilot with the Air Ambulance in Wales.

Catherine:
She talked about her struggles in dealing with being a first time mother and handling the baby alone when William was away on his part time job.

When the young royals first revealed their problems in a video for their Heads Together campaign, the media went nuts. They accused the young royals were whining about their problems, while having all the privileges and advantages that others don’t have. The backlash were massive for a couple of weeks.

Today, the Heads Together is off the ground and celebrities, journalists, boys, girls, and everyone you can think of have joined this campaign and are talking about their own personal mental health issues and hardships. Harry, William and Catherine has started something massively amazing and, now, people have praised them for.

Now, Harry and his wife, Meghan, have come forward with their personal hardships. Harry is still dealing with, but managing, his hardship over his mother she death and seeing his wife being horribly bullied by the mass British media. Meghan has come forward to say she’s having a having a hard time dealing with an unjust smear campaign against her.

This couple is simply doing what the Heads Together campaign is encouraging others to do. Talk about your problems, not sit in silence.

Now people want the couple to be quiet and just take the bullying? Now people want this couple to do the exact opposite of what the Heads Together campaign is encouraging others to do? I’m confused.
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  #1179  
Old 10-24-2019, 05:10 PM
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I am tired. I am so tired of so many royal watchers and the media and the constant gaslighting of both Meghan and many (not all) POC/Black watchers trying to explain what is different about the abuse Meghan is facing.

Never once has Meghan complained about scrutiny or criticism. It is clear that legitimate criticism she is willing to take to heart. We have seen how since she has come back from maternity leave, and even before, she has made an effort to repeat more clothes and spend less. Good! Both her and Harry have said they do not mind substantive critiques.

The issue at hand remains the lies, the racial abuse, the sexism and the xenophobia. All of which are part of a clearly coordinated and dangerous campaign ran by the media. This is not what other royal women have faced---as terrible as what they faced was. I've been a royal watcher for a long time and the vitriol spewed about Meghan online and in the papers shocks even me and let me tell you, I have a pretty high threshold. The double-standards are ridiculous and there is a clear aim to damage Meghan.
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  #1180  
Old 10-24-2019, 05:20 PM
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I agree about the exaggeration, the xenophobia and the racial abuse. I have seen it too.

But seriously and realistically, does anyone really believe it's going to stop because of a lecture by the Royals or their friends?

I am not talking about the print press. They can and should be sued for untrue stories.

But how do you halt/fight racism and xenophobia on social media? It's like dealing with dandruff or cancer.

It's part of the human condition. It will ALWAYS be part of the ugly side of life.

I don't think it's a matter of the Royal couple "laying down and taking it:'.

But to believe ingrained ignorance and bigotry can be dealt with by stomping ones' feet and bellowing CUT IT OUT! is not realistic at all.

ETA: One must make a distinction between bullying and legitimate criticism. It is not bullying to point out the unwise choices the Sussexes have made and continue to make(celebrity baby showers, diva behavior at Wimbledon etc) imo
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