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  #381  
Old 07-06-2011, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by kansasmama4 View Post
Hello to all.

I'm new to royal watching and have to admit that I, like many Americans, don't know much about any royal family other than the British royal family. I actually became interested in the Danish royal family after watching the wedding of Crown Prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary on YouTube. In brief online research of CP Mary, I've noticed a bit of resentment and hostility toward her on other forums. Can anyone enlighten me as to why? From what I've read of her, she seems to be a fascinating and beautiful person. Why such bitterness from other online posters?

I look forward to being a part of this community and expanding my knowledge of royal families. Thanks for any insight, advice, and suggestions!
I noticed this too and was actually appalled by the way people talk about Mary. I think that Mary and Frederick seem like a loving but private couple. And Mary seems like a warm mother, I've seen tons of photos of her with her children.
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  #382  
Old 07-11-2011, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Kellydofc View Post
I noticed this too and was actually appalled by the way people talk about Mary. I think that Mary and Frederick seem like a loving but private couple. And Mary seems like a warm mother, I've seen tons of photos of her with her children.
I have noticed that people have very strong opinions about Mary in particular but I would not chalk it up to envy. Some people may not like the way she goes about her job. I know in the beginning there was criticism that she was only interested in fashion as that was an organization that she chose to represent right away vs. a more serious charitable organization. (She does love her Prada.)

Danish Royal Watchers: December 2007

She does discuss that in an interview she did several years ago. Frederick also speaks about it.

There have been other criticisms that come from the idea that she is interested in the press too much. She also took a while to speak Danish. The German Vogue article. Enough said on that topic because that really got people fired up.

I actually think that Mary is a good princess but everyone has their own ideas. Hopefully they will come forward and talk about it why they do not think that she does a good job. I am sure they have more valid concerns than I listed but those are some of the more important ideas for thought.
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  #383  
Old 07-11-2011, 02:11 AM
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I dont know why its a big deal if Mary speaks with an Aussie accent. I mean, learning a new language is not easy and Danish is said to be a difficult language. Mary has been speaking Aussie with an accent for her whole life therefore I only see her speaking another language with an accent, it doesnt matter how much she will practice, it will always be there. Let it be there, its not like she is running away from the fact she is Australian and needs to speak Danish with 0% accent.

For example, when an Arab learns English, there will be an accent. When a French learns English, there will be an accent.

I dont understand Danish but as people have said she does talk it well with mistakes sometimes but lets not forget, we also do mistakes when speaking our mother tongue language.
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  #384  
Old 07-11-2011, 02:52 AM
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I think Mary's done a good job. She moved halfway around the world to be with the one she loves. Gave up everything to take on a new country, language, traditions and a major role in a Royal Family. Of course it took her time to learn, Danish isn't the easiest language to learn and she probably didn't want to come out too soon with it or there would have been more mistakes. I think she gets pretty good press here in Oz. I don't see why he dressing well is a problem if she didn't she would be in trouble too. She picked things that interest her all of the Royals do that! She now has four children and I'm sure she will raise them well. She does still come back and visit her family here in Oz which would stop her aussie accent going completely also her accent being very english isn't unusual here in Australia not everybody had the ocker type accent. People think I'm from New Zealand or have spent a long time in the UK. I haven't it's just my accent maybe it's because my family are only second generation Aussies.
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  #385  
Old 07-11-2011, 03:28 AM
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Mary's accent is not a big deal.
- For the very simply reason that she speaks excellent Danish and she's very articulate when speaking Danish. In other words: she's mastering the language.
Of course she will make the odd mistake, so does the natives.
- That in contrast to Prince Henrik who has an excellent understanding of Danish, he just can speak Danish and most annoyingly; he constantly makes basic grammattical mistakes. He litterally can't speak two sentences without at least one basic mistake. And that's why he has got a lot of heat. Especially since he has been in DK since the late 60's.
Mary, and Marie too for that matter, is way past that.

As for Mary and fashion. Well, she had to start somewhere I guess and Danish fashion industy was and still is on the rise. According to a report I read some years ago, fashion is now an important export sector.
Now, I don't pretend to know a lot about fashion but I know what I like and Mary strikes me as being pretty stylish. In my eyes Mary's dresses, robes and what not are her "work clothes" as it is her job to represent her country and preferably looking good doing it. - I'd say she has accomplished that pretty well.

There may be many who critisize Mary, so be it, but I doubt you'll find many Danes among them.
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  #386  
Old 07-11-2011, 04:49 AM
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I think Mary has succeded a lot right now and it's great that she speaks danish! I don't care about her accent, but learning another language isn't the easiest thing in the world! Everywhere we're going to meet people telling good and bad things about everything.
P.S. Is danish difficult?
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  #387  
Old 07-11-2011, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kansasmama4 View Post
Hello to all.

In brief online research of CP Mary, I've noticed a bit of resentment and hostility toward her on other forums. Can anyone enlighten me as to why? From what I've read of her, she seems to be a fascinating and beautiful person. Why such bitterness from other online posters?

I look forward to being a part of this community and expanding my knowledge of royal families. Thanks for any insight, advice, and suggestions!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Baroness View Post
I think this thread was the perfect place to pose this question, because I believe language is the main reason there are such heavy opinions (both ways) about certain female royals. I asked myself the same question about Mary a few months ago - What makes her different from other Crown Princesses in the way that she can provoke such strong reactions? I think it all has to do with English as her first language. Her early interviews, family, press in Australia created accessibility that Mathilde, Mette-Marit, Letizia, and Maxima never could achieve. The English language gives people more material to admire, and more importantly, scrutinize.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nwinther View Post
First of all - Welcome.

Second, I've noticed the hostility towards CPM too - it's even on this forum (she's not alone though). But other forums or comments on articles from (primarily Australian newspapers) the hostility can seem quite malicious.
I have no clear explanation for this. It seems like a blend of sour grapes, anti-monarchy sentiment, and downright envy. I've never come across anything substantial that can explain the hostility, such as concrete hostile behaviour or expression of controversial opinions etc. Usually it's something someone has said - as an anonymous source in a dubious article or book (A danish "author" Trine Villemann published a book filled with anonymous sources and slandor about the royal family) or a (falsely?) percieved arrogance.

I know there is very little critizism of Mary in Denmark (although the republicans insist that the monarchy should be abolished. Republicans can muster about 15% of the population in Denmark - on a good day).
I have a theory:

The hatred for Mary was cultivated by those who loved her sister-in-law Alexandra.

I Feel Sorry For Alexandra

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...s-cv-1763.html

Mary was compared to Alexandra, "The Perfect Princess", since it was an ordinary girl from Tasmania.

Alexandra has a natural ability to learn languages. Mary does not have the innate ability and took longer to learn.

Alexandra has been forgotten, but ...

In general, older fans of Alexandra are in the forums anti-mary.

I do not mean all fans of Alexandra, but a few more passionate.

A curiosity:

Letizia, for example, is hated in the Spanish forums. Mary, however, has many fans.

But the Spanish language is not as universal as the English language.
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  #388  
Old 07-11-2011, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guiomar View Post
I have a theory:

The hatred for Mary was cultivated by those who loved her sister-in-law Alexandra.

I Feel Sorry For Alexandra

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...s-cv-1763.html

Mary was compared to Alexandra, "The Perfect Princess", since it was an ordinary girl from Tasmania.

Alexandra has a natural ability to learn languages. Mary does not have the innate ability and took longer to learn.

Alexandra has been forgotten, but ...

In general, older fans of Alexandra are in the forums anti-mary.

I do not mean all fans of Alexandra, but a few more passionate.

Letizia, for example, is hated in the Spanish forums. Mary, however, is admired.

But the Spanish language is not as universal as the English language.
I first became interested in the Danish monarchy very soon after Mary and Frederik's wedding and I do remember being surprised when I was browsing the forum here to get "caught up" at the level of anger directed at Mary by some of those who admired Alexandra, (and I say this as someone who thinks Alexandra is an impressive lady myself). These were postings from the months prior to the wedding, before Mary had even had a chance to do anything, I think even before anyone in Denmark had heard her speak. There were a lot of comments to the effect that Mary would never be able to compete with Alexandra, that Mary and Frederik would never be the couple Alexandra and Joachim were, that it was going to be awfully hard for this Australian upstart to spend the rest of her life in Alexandra's shadow, etc. IMO there was an underlying sense of panic that someone was joining the family who, by becoming the CROWN princess, was going to jump ahead of their favourite. Given what actually wound up happening it's something that's stuck in my mind as a reminder of how quickly and drastically situations can change.
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  #389  
Old 07-11-2011, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guiomar View Post
I have a theory:

The hatred for Mary was cultivated by those who loved her sister-in-law Alexandra.

I Feel Sorry For Alexandra

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...s-cv-1763.html

Mary was compared to Alexandra, "The Perfect Princess", since it was an ordinary girl from Tasmania.

Alexandra has a natural ability to learn languages. Mary does not have the innate ability and took longer to learn.

Alexandra has been forgotten, but ...

In general, older fans of Alexandra are in the forums anti-mary.

I do not mean all fans of Alexandra, but a few more passionate.

A curiosity:

Letizia, for example, is hated in the Spanish forums. Mary, however, has many fans.

But the Spanish language is not as universal as the English language.
I do not think that Alexandra has been forgotten. She still does charity work and she has been discreet when asked about the royals. She was a good example of a hard-working royal and how to live your life when you leave the "royal fold". The Queen appears to have great respect for her. Also you pointed out her aptitude for languages. However, I do not want to turn this in to a Alexandra vs. Mary argument...I do like them both no matter how different they are.

I was trying to point out the constructive criticism of Mary because it is out there. While I respect the opinion that the Danish fashion industry has grown, with her help, it didn't start out that way. So the grounds that is was a fluff charity had some basis then.
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  #390  
Old 07-11-2011, 11:17 PM
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Sorry. I mentioned this to respond to Kansasmama, but do not want to divert the topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
I first became interested in the Danish monarchy very soon after Mary and Frederik's wedding and I do remember being surprised when I was browsing the forum here to get "caught up" at the level of anger directed at Mary by some of those who admired Alexandra, (and I say this as someone who thinks Alexandra is an impressive lady myself). These were postings from the months prior to the wedding, before Mary had even had a chance to do anything, I think even before anyone in Denmark had heard her speak. There were a lot of comments to the effect that Mary would never be able to compete with Alexandra, that Mary and Frederik would never be the couple Alexandra and Joachim were, that it was going to be awfully hard for this Australian upstart to spend the rest of her life in Alexandra's shadow, etc. IMO there was an underlying sense of panic that someone was joining the family who, by becoming the CROWN princess, was going to jump ahead of their favourite. Given what actually wound up happening it's something that's stuck in my mind as a reminder of how quickly and drastically situations can change.
Yes, these comparisons were common in the forums until 2007.

Mary was an ordinary girl, became a princess in the Internet age and was compared (negatively) to an experienced and popular princess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jemagre View Post
I do not think that Alexandra has been forgotten. She still does charity work and she has been discreet when asked about the royals. She was a good example of a hard-working royal and how to live your life when you leave the "royal fold". The Queen appears to have great respect for her. Also you pointed out her aptitude for languages. However, I do not want to turn this in to a Alexandra vs. Mary argument...I do like them both no matter how different they are.

I was trying to point out the constructive criticism of Mary because it is out there. While I respect the opinion that the Danish fashion industry has grown, with her help, it didn't start out that way. So the grounds that is was a fluff charity had some basis then.
Hi

I was not referring to your comment in particular. Sorry.

I do not want to enter the theme Mary vs. Alexandra. However, I wanted to indicate the source of hostility to Mary.

As the topic is about language, I mentioned the Alexandra's natural ability to learn languages.

I liked Alexandra. She handed me a image of perfection. My impression: now the Queen seems civil (only) and distant with her. I follow the Danish media and forums in general, and feel that Alexandra was forgotten. Alexandra interviews for TV (2008) and Billed Bladet and poses birthday or the children did not change this fact (but that's another topic).
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  #391  
Old 07-12-2011, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
As for Mary and fashion. Well, she had to start somewhere I guess and Danish fashion industy was and still is on the rise. According to a report I read some years ago, fashion is now an important export sector.
Now, I don't pretend to know a lot about fashion but I know what I like and Mary strikes me as being pretty stylish. In my eyes Mary's dresses, robes and what not are her "work clothes" as it is her job to represent her country and preferably looking good doing it. - I'd say she has accomplished that pretty well.

There may be many who critisize Mary, so be it, but I doubt you'll find many Danes among them.
I'm sure I remember reading an interview in which Mary touched on the reasoning behind the Danish fashion industry becoming one of her first patronages. From what I remember it interested her because it was a major and fast growing industry in Denmark and because it was something that was relatively easy to delve into, (I imagine in contrast to something like her foundation which is a major project she's building over time).

Her thoughts seemed reasonable to me. I can see how it would be daunting as a new Crown Princess to figure out what your role is going to be and you have to start somewhere. I would be critical of Mary if, seven years on, she was still just focusing on fashion but that's certainly not the case.
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  #392  
Old 07-12-2011, 06:13 PM
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Getting back to language - i was really surprised when I first heard Queen M. speak- She speaks like a native English person. Also Joachim does too, but Fred has an accent. I find that all interesting, because Fred and Joachim grew up in a household speaking French, I guess because of Henri/Hendrik.

I often wonder when all the royal houses get together, what language do they speak?? Or can they speak Danish to the Norwegians and understand Norwegian back?
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  #393  
Old 07-12-2011, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mommabee View Post
I often wonder when all the royal houses get together, what language do they speak?? Or can they speak Danish to the Norwegians and understand Norwegian back?
The Scandinavian RF's will have no particular problem understanding each other. I guess they speak a kind of "Scandinavian", when they are together.
Mary is of course the one who has an disadvantage here. I've been told that if you can master Danish, understanding Swedish and Norwegian will be easier, as these two languages are spoken more clearly than Danish. With clear sounds and more pronounced. Eventhough the words and pronounciation is quite different from Danish. Whether that is true, I'll leave to others to decide. - Personally I find Swedish, especially southern Swedish (skånsk) much more difficult to understand than German.

M&F live in Copenhagen where most are able to speak at least a kind of basic Swedish, just as most living there will have no problem understanding Swedish.
In the most northern part of Jutland, people are exposed to Norwegian through TV and tourists, so they have at least a basic mastery of Norwegian.
From central Jutland down, and in Southern Jutland in particluar, German is a language many of us have a fairly good understanding of. Perhaps especially the middleaged and older of us, who were exposed to a lot of German TV in the 70-90's.

- TV is the great teacher. I'd claim that the main reason why most Scandinavians have a pretty good grasp of English is because films are shown with subtitles here.
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  #394  
Old 07-19-2011, 12:09 AM
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I wonder if CP Mary speaks English or Danish to her children? I also wonder if, at such a young age, if perhaps her oldest two might be bilingual in both Danish and English at this point?

By the way, I think the crown princely couple's children look so much like CP Frederik, don't you? I can't believe the resemblence! He should be very proud that he's got such beautiful little ones!
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  #395  
Old 07-19-2011, 02:13 AM
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I think it would be clever that she teaches them english too!
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  #396  
Old 07-19-2011, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by kansasmama4 View Post
I wonder if CP Mary speaks English or Danish to her children? I also wonder if, at such a young age, if perhaps her oldest two might be bilingual in both Danish and English at this point?

By the way, I think the crown princely couple's children look so much like CP Frederik, don't you? I can't believe the resemblence! He should be very proud that he's got such beautiful little ones!
It's known that Christian speaks both Danish and English and I'd imagine Isabella would too.

I personally think Christian resembles his mother in many ways, and Isabella more her father.
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  #397  
Old 07-19-2011, 02:57 AM
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I wonder if Mary speakes mostly english to her husband,since that's the language she was raised.
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  #398  
Old 07-19-2011, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by IloveCP View Post
I wonder if Mary speakes mostly english to her husband,since that's the language she was raised.
I have heard in an interview that Mary adopted her new language so much, that she claims to think in that language...
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  #399  
Old 07-19-2011, 01:45 PM
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I have heard in an interview that Mary adopted her new language so much, that she claims to think in that language...
i am sure she does, i do the same, once you talk everyday you think too it is normal
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Old 07-19-2011, 06:46 PM
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I have heard in an interview that Mary adopted her new language so much, that she claims to think in that language...
I have actually heard an interview extract of Mary being asked a question in English, by an Australian journalist and then proceeding to answer in Danish before realising that the lady couldn't/didn't understand, then apologising and switching to English...it was quite funny and showed how Mary probably has to make more of a conscious effort to speak English now than was the case 10 years ago!
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