Four years down the track; Is Mary OK now?

[Little_star]

If you are really interested in Mary's view on why she moved to Denmark, I advise to read her pre-wedding interviews which were translated and published here, somewhere earlier in this forum.

I have no doubts as to why she moved to Denmark, I've never mentioned anything abut her motives.
Moreover I've read her interviews, they are quite bland.

IIRC Mary was not "kept" at all, but worked till her engagement was officially announced. If so, Frederick only helped with the costs of the move.

She worked at a company that was run by Fred's best friend and even then was barely at work according ot her co-workers. Morevoer at the time she was supposed to be "working" she took numerous holidays with Fred. Europe may be incredibly flexible when it comes to holidays, but we're not that flexible!

 

[Little_star]

Hm, it's is a fact that Mary and Frederick come from very different backgrounds. Still, they met, liked each other and decided to see what the future would bring. At one point it was saying no to a future together or a move for one of them as the relationship could not go on like it was with them living half of the world apart.

At that point it was clear that it was Mary who had to move because it was impossible for Fred. But the fact that it was his position which made her move a necessity makes him responsible for it. So he had to shoulder at least part of the responsibility by helping with paying for the costs that arose from this situation.

Thankfully we live in an era where women are responsible for themselves and don't need to rely on men
If she chose to move then she should pay for it. The fact that Fred has the means to shoulder the cost is irrelevant, it all comes down to self-respect. .

It's the same as in business life: when your company wants you to move, they pay for it. They pay for the move, they grant benefits for expats, they help with (or even pay for ) the rent - that's the most normal thing in business life.

For a time, perhaps. Even then it's entirely dependent on the individual's contract.

So why does taking the company's money advance a woman into a successful business woman who is so much in demand that her company is willing to pay handsomely for the privilege of having her move? While at the same time the accepting of the help of the boyfriend when it come to a private move in order to see if there might be a chance for marriage turnes the girl in question into a "kept" woman?

I's one thing to accept help, it's another to rely on them for employment, a place to live, lifestyle etc.

Interesting that you're choosing to compare Mary and Fred to a business transaction though.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

I have no doubts as to why she moved to Denmark, I've never mentioned anything abut her motives.
Moreover I've read her interviews, they are quite bland.

I'm a journalist myself so did quite my share of interviews. Based on my experience, I must say that I found the interviews refreshing, with a very honest and serious note. When I try to put myself in Mary's situation I wonder what I would have said? What would you have told to make them more - hm, what is the opposite of "bland" - spicy? And would anyone have accepted a "spicy" interview by a future Crown Princess?

 

[Laviollette]

I've hesitated to comment because these threads about CP Mary always turn into "What don't you like about Mary?" with endless criticism about things that happened years ago. Today, as Crown Princess of Denmark, she is doing a fine job. She is popular and loved in her adopted country. Why she moved to Denmark four or five years ago, what her motives were and whether or not she was being supported by Frederik, I don't see as relevant.

What was so wrong with Frederik helping Mary Donaldson find a job and housing, even helping her pay her expenses? He asked her to move from her country, quit her job and live in Denmark to be closer to him, didn't he? This goes on in relationships all the time. They just happen within the same country or the same city. In the end, he proposed to her, trusts her to be CP and his future consort and, as I've already said, is loved and adored in Denmark. That's all that matters.

All of the things she was criticized for in the beginning such as the fashion magazine covers are no longer being done. She has settled into her life in Denmark as Princess Mary, wife and mother to Christian. She is not seeking attention outside of Denmark. She is their princess and she knows this.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Thankfully we live in an era where women are responsible for themselves and don't need to rely on men
If she chose to move then she should pay for it. The fact that Fred has the means to shoulder the cost is irrelevant, it all comes down to self-respect..

IMHO there is a difference between taking responsibility for oneself and the question who pays for the results of an action. What if a woman gets pregnant because she and her boyfriend wanted it that way? Would you absolve the father on saying that it's a question of self-respect not to take any payments for their joint decision? They both decided she had to move because their relationship needed it. He was not only partly responsible why she moved, he was the sole reason why she had to move. So why should she shoulder the costs of the results of their joint decision alone? That's what I don't get in your argumentation.

I's one thing to accept help, it's another to rely on them for employment, a place to live, lifestyle etc.

I try to see the situation of these two people who are in love and were in a difficult situation. There were a lot of things that were non-negociable which were this way due to his position, not due to Mary's decision. It was a take it or leave it situation for her. Frederick surely wanted to give Mary the chance to experience his lifestyle before she accepted her "life sentence" as his wife. So of course at this advanced point in their relationship he tried to ease her way which way he could without alerting the public to their (at this point still potential) aim. She should be able to still back out. I ask you honestly: how would you have dealt with this situation?

It's true that Mary probably was not able to finance her part in the very stylish "holidays" she had with Frederick. But she needed this experience to be able to decide. She needed to live in Denmark, she needed to live in a secure and suitable apartment where Frederick could bring his friends to meet her. She needed a suitable wardrobe in order to be presented in private to the people who count at court in Denmark. Should she have gotten debts in order to pay for things that were required because he, the rich prince, has been who he is?

It's an IMHO very simplistic way to see. And it's a sad one because with this view you seem to say that Cinderella-stories should never happen because Cinderella would not be able to pay for a wedding dress required for a future princess. Or that she would be a laughing stock in a wedding dress she c ould afford.

 

[EmpressRouge]

If we were to take a very narrow view about helping out a partner with finances, marriage can be seen as a business traction or "being kept" as well. Just a thought.

 

[UserDane]

If we were to take a very narrow view about helping out a partner with finances, marriage can be seen as a business traction or "being kept" as well. Just a thought.

Precisely! I find it a very artificial distinction that if you don't have the wedding ring on your finger, you're 'kept' if you husband is well- off and paying most of the bills, but if the ring is there it's OK. Incredibly old-fashioned.
I lived together with my husband for more then 10 years before we married; no one is going to tell me that I was more 'kept' without the marriage certificate then with it (at least they won't say it if they are smart )

 

[UserDane]

Would that be the company where it was revealed by her fellow co-workers that she barely showed up for work, by any chance? The same company that is in fact run by a very good friend of Fred's?

Any chance of pics of dear Fred and his chum, good old Billy Boy? Bill Gates that is; as in Bill Gates of Microsoft - the guy who in the spring of 2002 bought Navision for close to DKK 12 billion, second largest Microsoft acquisition after Great Plains at the time. Bet that Billy was so thrilled he could hardly sleep at night when Mary started at Navision later that year and that he personally made her feel safe and secure
This story is fast becoming my favorite Mary urban legend!

 

[RachelD]

Unfortunatly that's the way it's seen. But remember everyone, they had already been dating for two years (?) and they had a serious and stable relationship. It's only normal that Fred would want to give Mary things. Maybe they went half-and-half on stuff? Who knows. But if Fred's desire to help Mary out came straight from the heart, then why should it bother us? It's the love he felt for her that motivated him. We have all done things for our significant others purely based on the love we have and feel for them. Plus, we are each accountable to ourselves for our own actions.

Where did this tid-bit of info come from? That Mary was hardly ever at work? Just want more juicy details!

 

[Polly]

If you may permit me? Tasmania is furtherest away from Denmark than Hong Kong, geographically speaking.

Have a nice day.

Actually, Australia is nearly twice the distance from Denmark that Hong Kong is: Hong Kong - 8235.15 kms; Melbourne, Australia 15605.73 kms.

Polly

 

[Zonk]

Here's the thing...it appears that Mary's decision to move to Denmark was something that she and Fred talked about. After dating what two years...it most likely happened after that discussion that most men hate..."Where isthis relationship going now." And honestly...it couldn't really go to far if she was in Australia and he was in Denmark. And since he was the only person she might have known in Denmark, of course he was like...let me talk to my boy...he can probably hook you up with a job. Its not what you know its who you know.

 

[RachelD]

Here's the thing...it appears that Mary's decision to move to Denmark was something that she and Fred talked about. After dating what two years...it most likely happened after that discussion that most men hate..."Where isthis relationship going now." And honestly...it couldn't really go to far if she was in Australia and he was in Denmark. And since he was the only person she might have known in Denmark, of course he was like...let me talk to my boy...he can probably hook you up with a job. Its not what you know its who you know.

Totally agree with you Zonk!
Great minds think alike!!

 

[tabbitha]

IMHO there is a difference between taking responsibility for oneself and the question who pays for the results of an action. What if a woman gets pregnant because she and her boyfriend wanted it that way? Would you absolve the father on saying that it's a question of self-respect not to take any payments for their joint decision? They both decided she had to move because their relationship needed it. He was not only partly responsible why she moved, he was the sole reason why she had to move. So why should she shoulder the costs of the results of their joint decision alone? That's what I don't get in your argumentation.




I try to see the situation of these two people who are in love and were in a difficult situation. There were a lot of things that were non-negociable which were this way due to his position, not due to Mary's decision. It was a take it or leave it situation for her. Frederick surely wanted to give Mary the chance to experience his lifestyle before she accepted her "life sentence" as his wife. So of course at this advanced point in their relationship he tried to ease her way which way he could without alerting the public to their (at this point still potential) aim. She should be able to still back out. I ask you honestly: how would you have dealt with this situation?

It's true that Mary probably was not able to finance her part in the very stylish "holidays" she had with Frederick. But she needed this experience to be able to decide. She needed to live in Denmark, she needed to live in a secure and suitable apartment where Frederick could bring his friends to meet her. She needed a suitable wardrobe in order to be presented in private to the people who count at court in Denmark. Should she have gotten debts in order to pay for things that were required because he, the rich prince, has been who he is?

It's an IMHO very simplistic way to see. And it's a sad one because with this view you seem to say that Cinderella-stories should never happen because Cinderella would not be able to pay for a wedding dress required for a future princess. Or that she would be a laughing stock in a wedding dress she c ould afford.

Exactly Jo- There is NO way Mary would have had that kind of money to be able to live the Style Fred is accustomed to but as we don't know if she had her own money or not we can only speculate and I don't see Mary as a Kept women either..If that is the case well i think she has earnt her keep now with her duties and raising a son . Mary is doing great IMO..

 

[KelliB]

I have no doubt at all that Mary was probably looked after by Frederick when she moved to Denmark, but neither of them really had a choice. Can you imagine what the tabloids would have said had Mary been "struggling" (i.e. living as most of us do, flush at the beginning of the month, poor as church mice at month's end), or shopping in the bargain areas or attending functions with Frederick in clothes from Target (or your country's equivalent).

If anything, by ensuring her financial security during what must have been a fairly challenging time for her, Frederick is demonstrating clearly just how much he loved her. It really seems to me as though some posters think she should have stayed put in Australia so that Frederick could have found someone more "worthy" (or rather, more wealthy).

 

[lise]

I see no problem with Frederik helping Mary with moving expenses or finding a job. As far as I'm concerned if you meet somebody from overseas and they move to your country to be closer to you you should pay help out with the bill. Also there's nothing wrong with Frederik helping Mary find a job. He knew somebody who with a job vacancy and Mary needed a job. Alot of people get jobs because of who they know it's not just Mary.

 

[Madame Royale]

Actually, Australia is nearly twice the distance from Denmark that Hong Kong is: Hong Kong - 8235.15 kms; Melbourne, Australia 15605.73 kms.

Polly

Thanks, Polly

 

[tabbitha]

It really seems to me as though some posters think she should have stayed put in Australia so that Frederick could have found someone more "worthy" (or rather, more wealthy).

That's for sure

 

[Madame Royale]

That's for sure

The general consensus, I have noticed, is that many actually like Mary and some don't. And hey, such is life isn't it I'm certain Mary would have been well aware that she would be subject to criticism's along the way and I think she possesses the character to take on board what's constructive and good and ignore what's not which is a very healthy approach I think.

I must admit that I have, on one or two occasions, come to think that perhaps the question isn't entirely about the person as an indavidual but also her background (social and financial) and where this lady originates from.

I do hope that this is not the case because that's a very sad way of thinking, especialy in the 21st century. But again, nothing of such has ever been mentioned directly

 

[tabbitha]

The general consensus, I have noticed, is that many actually like Mary and some don't. And hey, such is life isn't it I'm certain Mary would have been well aware that she would be subject to criticism's along the way and I think she possesses the character to take on board what's constructive and good and ignore what's not which is a very healthy approach I think.

I must admit that I have, on one or two occasions, come to think that perhaps the question isn't entirely about the person as an indavidual but also her background (social and financial) and where this lady originates from.

I do hope that this is not the case because that's a very sad way of thinking, especialy in the 21st century. But again, nothing of such has ever been mentioned directly

Yes it depends which forum you read - here at Rf they seem to like her more and yes each to their own.. Not sure what you mean in the second paragraph in regards to her background?? Do you mean about her money situation or how she met Fred etc ???

 

[Madame Royale]

Yes it depends which forum you read - here at Rf they seem to like her more and yes each to their own.. Not sure what you mean in the second paragraph in regards to her background?? Do you mean about her money situation or how she met Fred etc ???

Family and personal wealth, suburban Australian middle class upbringing etc...

I must make point of having thought this earlier on in the piece and not so much now, if at all.

BTW: I wasn't making a direct response to your post, tabbitha, but used it within context of my own as something for me to elaborate on.

 

[tabbitha]

Family and personal wealth, suburban middle class upbringing etc...

BTW, I wasn't making a direct response to your post, tabbitha, but used it within context of my own as something for me to elaborate on.

I didn't think you were singling me out that's ok.. I enjoy reading your posts as i do alot of others. i think this forum is very fair and has some great people here. I don't really know alot about Mary's upbringing- there doesn't seem to be a huge amount on it- she keeps that side private which she has every right to do so.. To me I don't think she has a scandulous past which some like to make out she does- from what i have read & spoken to other people here she seems to have had a typical average australian upbringing and has never wanted for anything.I guess they weren't poor but not rich either...Just comfortable and enjoying the great outdoors...

 

[Madame Royale]

I didn't think you were singling me out that's ok.. I enjoy reading your posts as i do alot of others. i think this forum is very fair and has some great people here. I don't really know alot about Mary's ubringing- there doesn't seem to be a huge amount on it- she keeps that side private which she has every right to do so.. from what i have read & spoken to other people here she seems to have had a typical average australian upbringing and has never wanted for anything.I guess they weren't poor but not rich either...Just comfortable and enjoying the great outdoors...

I think this to be a very accurate post, tabbitha

 

[Little_star]

Any chance of pics of dear Fred and his chum, good old Billy Boy? Bill Gates that is; as in Bill Gates of Microsoft - the guy who in the spring of 2002 bought Navision for close to DKK 12 billion, second largest Microsoft acquisition after Great Plains at the time. Bet that Billy was so thrilled he could hardly sleep at night when Mary started at Navision later that year and that he personally made her feel safe and secure
This story is fast becoming my favorite Mary urban legend!

I wasn't refering to Bill Gates, as I think you know. Bill Gates may have bought Navision, but he will have little to do with its daily running, it will be just another company in his alreadsy extensive portfolio. Or are you suggesting that Bill Gates actually runs the company on a daily basis?

The man I was refering to was Danish and a long-time friend of Fred's who was, I think the Managing Director, or held a similar position. Unfortunately I cannot recall the same.

 

[Little_star]

Where did this tid-bit of info come from? That Mary was hardly ever at work? Just want more juicy details!

An old article.

 

[Little_star]

I have no doubt at all that Mary was probably looked after by Frederick when she moved to Denmark, but neither of them really had a choice. Can you imagine what the tabloids would have said had Mary been "struggling" (i.e. living as most of us do, flush at the beginning of the month, poor as church mice at month's end), or shopping in the bargain areas or attending functions with Frederick in clothes from Target (or your country's equivalent).

I would have had mroe respect for her if she had, as it would have shown a determination on her part to succeed all on her own.

If anything, by ensuring her financial security during what must have been a fairly challenging time for her, Frederick is demonstrating clearly just how much he loved her.

Fred could probably support several women in such a manner, he has the resources to!

It really seems to me as though some posters think she should have stayed put in Australia so that Frederick could have found someone more "worthy" (or rather, more wealthy).

not at all. However I see nothing wrong with her paying her own way.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

I would have had mroe respect for her if she had, as it would have shown a determination on her part to succeed all on her own.

She succeeded all on her own as long as she was a single. Don't forget that. And we don't know how Frederick and Mary solved their financial situation between the two of them before and after the marriage. It's mere speculation on our part how that was done and why. My point is that one should not respect people or find them disgusting because of things that are mere speculation instead of facts.

I say that I can understand it if Mary accepted Frederick's help due to the fact that he was the one whose position made the move necessary. We call that "Verursacherprinzip" in Germany - the one who is responsible or "to blame" is the one to make up for it. That's my position concerning this speculation. It has nothing to do with respecting or not respecting Mary for a behaviour that I know nothing about. While you seem to see it as a fact that Frederick payed for Mary and thus you don't respect her. For me, your opinion, while I accept your right to it, is bordering on the unfairness (because it's a speculation, not hard, proven facts) and it's against a major principle that governs the laws in many countries - the principle that the party responsible is liable for the "damages" and a principle which makes totally sense to me and obviously the majority of people.

 

[Marengo]

What is so horrible about when one partner is helping the other one (financially or in another way) anyway? Isn't that one of the things that is normal to do in a relationship?

 

[Lizy]

What is so horrible about when one partner is helping the other one (financially or in another way) anyway? Isn't that one of the things that is normal to do in a relationship?

I completely agree Marengo. As Frederik had the means to help Mary out it would have been more odd, in my opinion, if he had not done.

As for the question 'Is Mary Okay Now?'. Yes, I think she is and I thought she was pretty good back in the beginning to. I certainly don't think any less of her because she accepted help from her boyfriend (who was the one who asked her to move in the first place!)

 

[Madame Royale]

My point is that one should not respect people or find them disgusting because of things that are mere speculation instead of facts.

Is it just I, or is there a perfectly agreeable echo in here

 

[Australian]

Is it just I, or is there a perfectly agreeable echo in here

No it's not just you, i hear the echo