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  #461  
Old 08-05-2015, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florestane View Post
A religious wedding is not required, as far as I'm aware. The Ducruet children are in the line of succession and Princess Stephanie only married civilly.
They are only in line because they were "legitimated" by their parents' subsequent marriage. Stéphanie's third child is not, on the other hand.

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Originally Posted by noda View Post
Caroline married Stefano Casiraghi in a civil Wedding because for The Catholic Church she was still married with Philippe Junot. At that time Caroline already asked the Religious Wedding Annulment to the Sacra Rota (Catholic Church Court). Unfortunatly the Annulment came late (1992) and she could not marry, in a Religious Ceremony, Stefano who died in 1990. Soon after the Annulment the Roman Catholic Church recognised the Casiraghi siblings as Catholics and they enter in the Succession Line. Hope to have cleared This matter.
Two out of Caroline's three marriages were conducted outside of the Roman Catholic church. Her marriage to Casiraghi was not annulled until two years after he died and her marriage to Ernst could not be religious as he was divorced. Stéphanie married Daniel Ducruet AFTER the birth of both Louis and Pauline.She never identified the father of her third child.

However, AFAIK, neither Caroline or Stéphanie has ever declared themselves to be an atheist.
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  #462  
Old 08-05-2015, 10:09 PM
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Let's stay on topic....this is actually the wedding thread of Pierre and Beatrice.

Any and all additional off topic posts will be deleted without notice.
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  #463  
Old 08-06-2015, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Tosca View Post
If you go back and read my post, you'll see I used the verb 'wonder', because I've never seen pics of Caroline next to Paola or any other member of the Borromeo/Marzotto family at the last Rose Ball, and was wondering. If you have such a picture, please post it, so some of us will stop wondering, and bothering you. Or perhaps you're an insider and know it all, or maybe you're Mary Kate in desguise.

So if you are so knowledgeable, you should stop calling Beatrice a 'countess' or 'donna' she's neither. I also read that her father lost his title when marrying Marion Zota, a commoner. Besides, he owns only Islet San Giovanni, the other islands belonging to Prince Vitaliano Borromeo, Beatrice's cousin. Moreover there are a few places named after the Borromeos in Northern Italy, it doesn't mean that they still belong to that family: sometimes it's just a historical nameplace such as Peschiera Borromeo, a town near Milan, or the Villa Borrromeo in Arcore which is the seat of the local town council, which is also the current owner.
Dear Tosca, what I meant to say I said and I think I have been clear .
I'm not bothered by some comments, I just dont' agree and I said my opinion as others do .
I could be Mary Kate? What do you mean? What a nasty comment! I just say that I joined this forum 10 years ago, posted few comments with my nickname, no need to hide or play .
Thanks for the lesson on the Borromeo family but you come late sorry , I am well informed, no need of it . This is the reason why I never called Beatrice donna or countess since being born out of wedlock she is not entitled . Then I do not know what you mean, I just advise you to better verify your information.

Peace&love .
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  #464  
Old 08-06-2015, 01:33 PM
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Pierre and Beatrice with Caroline and Alexandra and some other people on Lago Maggiore days before the Italian wedding.
Casiraghi Trio
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  #465  
Old 08-06-2015, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdm View Post
Pierre and Beatrice with Caroline and Alexandra and some other people on Lago Maggiore days before the Italian wedding.
Casiraghi Trio
His hair was more than a few days longer at the wedding. It was medium curly gorge, IMHO.
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  #466  
Old 08-06-2015, 05:32 PM
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Paris Match?

Thank you for posting the, is it Paris Match photographs of this wedding. They are lovely. I wish the newly weds well.
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  #467  
Old 08-06-2015, 05:41 PM
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I look forward to going back to italy on sunday to grab my copy of oggi... thanks for the link to the pictures. Thanks duc et pair for your response, i will look into the "graziati - succession " story more in detail as i do remember the accounts of that time
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  #468  
Old 08-07-2015, 10:41 AM
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Sorry if this has been discussed at some point in this thread but are there info on who the attendants were at the wedding? Or if there are even any? At the very least there had to have been a best man and a maid of honor, no?

Reason I'm curious is I haven't noticed whether Beatrice has a close circle of friends or known female BFF(s) the way Charlotte and especially Tatiana have. We always see her with just Pierre.
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  #469  
Old 08-07-2015, 10:57 AM
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Princess Alexandra of Hannover has been seen in a white dress and flowers in her hair. That must have been an attendant's outfit. But more is not known, sincer there weren't any pics of the bride walking to the altar.
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  #470  
Old 08-07-2015, 11:22 AM
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Ah yes! Also heard that Stavros Niarchos III was a groomsman, and that Andrea and Grandma Marzotto were witnesses.
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  #471  
Old 08-07-2015, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by moby View Post
Ah yes! Also heard that Stavros Niarchos III was a groomsman, and that Andrea and Grandma Marzotto were witnesses.
Yes true. There are pictures of Pierre leaves out of the hotel along with the best men of the one of them was the Stavros Niarchos ( the more handsome).
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  #472  
Old 08-07-2015, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tosca View Post
So if you are so knowledgeable, you should stop calling Beatrice a 'countess' or 'donna' she's neither.
Beatrice is a daughter of a nobleman and a noble lady to be it not in a legal union. As she is born outside marriage, she indeed does not inherit her father's title but for the rest she is very much a blueblooded lady with Borromeo and Marzotto ancestry.

Donna is traditionally used as a form of address for daughters or wives of nobles, although it is no longer a legal right under Italian law. As Beatrice is the daughter of a Borromeo and a Marzotto, she can be addressed as Donna Beatrice. Anyone will understand she is not "from the street". Come on, if even a Borromeo can not be called Donna, no one can. In fact any Italian lady can be called "Donna" anyway but that is seen as very archaïc.

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  #473  
Old 08-07-2015, 01:34 PM
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I don't know Duc. In other threads you're always quick to point out when someone isn't 'noble'. For example in a thread on Lady Diana you disputed her royal credentials from the House of Stewart because she descends from an illegitimate line of Charles II.

Now you seem to be overlooking the facts to fit your own opinion of Beatrice.
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  #474  
Old 08-07-2015, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
I don't know Duc. In other threads you're always quick to point out when someone isn't 'noble'. For example in a thread on Lady Diana you disputed her royal credentials from the House of Stewart because she descends from an illegitimate line of Charles II.

Now you seem to be overlooking the facts to fit your own opinion of Beatrice.
You must be mistaken. I have never ever disputed Lady Diana's aristocratic ancestry. I wished Prince William had chosen a partner with at least the same background as his mother had.

But people calling someone "royal" because somewhere hip-hopping between paternal and maternal ancestors (in Diana's case via her grandmother Lady Cynthia Hamilton somewhere there is a far-away link with the Stuarts). The same can be said -by the way- about Camilla Shand and Sarah Ferguson, also these two have such links to the Stuarts.

When I possibly have played down "royal ancestry" then it is for this too theoretical and freely hop-hop-hopping from ancestor here to ancestor there to find a royal connection somewhere. Diana did not need that. She already had an impressive ancestry without any far-sought royal connections.

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  #475  
Old 08-07-2015, 01:56 PM
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I think people in this thread and other also is mixing the technical acquisition of a title and the real high education . Also they give or not the titles according to their feelings to each person.
For me Béatrice may not "technically" be a countess but from her blood and education she is an aristocrat. She has been raised like this, she has always been moving to high level circles (moneywise and culture wise) she is a real aristocrat. Same way Zara Philips is, despite she does not bear any Royal title.
On the other side, a woman or man, coming from nowhere, without manners, education or any culture, just because a royal fell in love with this person and married it, this person technically became a royal but in reality she is not.
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  #476  
Old 08-07-2015, 01:57 PM
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None of us, not even royalty choose our parents. This was the bride and grooms day and that is what this thread is about. I wish them well.
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  #477  
Old 08-07-2015, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
I think people in this thread and other also is mixing the technical acquisition of a title and the real education. Also the give or not the titles according to their feelings to each person.
For me Béatrice may not "technically" be a countess but from her blood and education she an aristocrat. She has been raised like this, she has always been moving to high level (moneywise and culture wise) she is a real aristocrat. Same way Zara Philips is, despite she does not any Royal title.
On the other side, a woman or man, coming from nowhere, without manners, education or any culture, just because a royal fell in love with this person and married it, this person technically became a royal but in reality she is not.
Beatrice being born out of wedlock isn't a mere technicality. Legitimacy means everything when it comes to nobility.

Beatrice's father may be a minor noble but as many Italian posters have pointed out, that doesn't apply to Beatrice herself.

Being born royal and having manners don't always go hand in hand. Ernest Hanover urinating on the Turkish Pavilion at the Expo 2000 event or beating a man with brass knuckles isn't very 'cultured'

I'm sure Beatrice is lovely, she is well educated and all the rest but so are many people.

As for Zara Philips, she is the first one to say she isn't royal.
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  #478  
Old 08-07-2015, 03:05 PM
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My apologies. I didn't mean to turn this into a big deal. It was a lovely wedding and Beatrice and Pierre make a lovely couple. Their families should be proud.
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  #479  
Old 08-07-2015, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
My apologies. I didn't mean to turn this into a big deal. It was a lovely wedding and Beatrice and Pierre make a lovely couple. Their families should be proud.
Rudolph, please don't apologise. If I have said anything that in any way appeared to criticise what you were saying, forgive me.
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  #480  
Old 08-07-2015, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Honeybees View Post
Rudolph, please don't apologise. If I have said anything that in any way appeared to criticise what you were saying, forgive me.
Not at all. It was a lovely wedding and Beatrice looked beautiful.
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