maria-olivia
Majesty
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- Oct 3, 2006
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- Brussels
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- Belgium
Princess Astrid eldest daughter was at the engagement party.
Princess Astrid eldest daughter was at the engagement party.
Where was it held? Brazil?
Princess Astrid eldest daughter was at the engagement party.
Thank you for the photo, they seem to be a likeable couple. I'm looking forward to the wedding, it will be interesting to see which reigning houses will attend. I'm not that knowledgable about Princess Alix enough to know, but is she close to any of them?
The marriage of a Princesse de Ligne with a Comte de Dampierre is not Ebenbürtig, it is not a marriage between partners of equal rank. However it is Standesgemäß, a marriage between partners of an equal standing: Alix de Ligne comes from the Belgian aristocracy. Guillaume de Dampierre comes from the French aristocracy. So they are Standesgemäß.
In some Royal House, like Prussia, the norm is to marry Standesgemäß, it is not at all needed to marry Ebenbürtig there. The marriage of the late Prince Louis-Ferdinand of Prussia with Countess Donata zu Castell-Rüdenhausen was Standesgemäß and therefore dynastic. The marriage of their son Prince Georg Friedrich with Princess Sophie von Isenburg is seen as Standesgemäß and therefore dynastic.
So we need to know what exactly is the requirement for a dynastic marriage in the House of Brazil. Is that an Ebenbürtige marriage (strictly equal) or is it "only" required to marry Standesgemäß ?
Kate Middelton 's lace was made in Caudry (France) it took and long time.
The lace was taken at Liiie railway Station and a great amount of real lace were put on.
This weddng dress took months, Isabelle Orsini 's dress was only in mechanic lace.
it is "a hasard" but Kate should have shown the back of the dress which was hidden by her hair.
Sorry our of topic , but isabelle Orsini was pregnant !
thanks for the information, very interesting, i didn't know the distinction. so would Ebenbürtige be if alix married another prince of belgium only?
I fear that the De ligne's are in section III of the Gotha, though most agree that this has been a mistake and that they should be in the second section. The other families you mention are also in section III.
The second section mostly has German-Austrian mediatised houses such as the Thurn und Taxis, Isenburg, Croÿ etc. Some of them less prestigious than families in the 3rd section.
The marriage of a Princesse de Ligne with a Comte de Dampierre is not Ebenbürtig, it is not a marriage between partners of equal rank. However it is Standesgemäß, a marriage between partners of an equal standing: Alix de Ligne comes from the Belgian aristocracy. Guillaume de Dampierre comes from the French aristocracy. So they are Standesgemäß.
In some Royal House, like Prussia, the norm is to marry Standesgemäß, it is not at all needed to marry Ebenbürtig there. The marriage of the late Prince Louis-Ferdinand of Prussia with Countess Donata zu Castell-Rüdenhausen was Standesgemäß and therefore dynastic. The marriage of their son Prince Georg Friedrich with Princess Sophie von Isenburg is seen as Standesgemäß and therefore dynastic.
So we need to know what exactly is the requirement for a dynastic marriage in the House of Brazil. Is that an Ebenbürtige marriage (strictly equal) or is it "only" required to marry Standesgemäß ?
I'm no expert like you, but I suppose a Standesgemäß is good enough, as Prince and a Princess of Brazil were allowed to marry a Princess and a Prince de Ligne in the 1980's and keep their succession rights.
[...]
Of the present Belgian noble families it is safe to assume that the De Ligne's rank no. 1.; it is older than the Croÿ's and Arenbergs. And that is despite the fact that both latter families feature in section II of the Gotha. The Arenberg's can even be considered a junior sidebranch of the Ligne family, as they decend from Jean de Ligne and Margaretha of Arenberg. I suppose that the family can also be considered no. 1 of the surviving nobility of the Low Countries combined since the House of Egmont became extinct.
I fear that the De Ligne's are in section III of the Gotha, though most agree that this has been a mistake and that they should be in the second section. The other families you mention are also in section III (same goes for the Limburg-Stirum family).
The second section mostly has German-Austrian mediatised houses such as the Thurn und Taxis, Isenburg, Croÿ etc. Many of them less prestigious than families in the 3rd section, though they had the saving grace of being nominaly 'sovereign' until the Napoleontic times. Section III lists the highest noble families from Europe that were NOT mediatised. All the French, British, Spanish etc. dukes, Italian and Russian Princes willbe in that section.
Of the present Belgian noble families it is safe to assume that the De Ligne's rank no. 1.; it is older than the Croÿ's and Arenbergs. And that is despite the fact that both latter families feature in section II of the Gotha. The Arenberg's can even be considered a junior sidebranch of the Ligne family, as they decend from Jean de Ligne and Margaretha of Arenberg. I suppose that the family can also be considered no. 1 of the surviving nobility of the Low Countries combined since the House of Egmont became extinct.
The term "equal" was reserved just for the families who held immediate territory in the Holy Roman Empire until 1806.
Problem with de Ligne family and why they are listed in Section III was because they lost their immediate land of Fagnolles in 1801 and sold their immediate land Edelstetten in 1804 to the Esterhazy family before 1806.
There were other families in similar situation who sold their immediate territories just few years before 1806 and thus lost a "chance" of being treated "equal".For example,some such families were:
1. Nostitiz-Rheineck-sold immediate land of Rheineck in 1803 to Colloredo-Mansfeld family.
2. Bretzenheim-lost their immediate lands Bretzenheim and Winzenheim in 1801 and sold immediate Lindau in 1803.
3. Abensberg-Traun-sold their immediate lands Eglof and Siggen in 1804 to Windischgrätz family.
Problem with Limburg family was because line of the family who held immediate territory of Gemen died out by 19th century and only lines who never held this immediate territory survived,so they could not be treated "equal".
But,in the end,every family had its own rules and could decide which criteria will they use.
The website of Beloeil Castle says;
WARNING: the castle and park will be exceptionally closed from 13 till 22 june 2016.
So I think the Mariage and party's around it are in that time!
Château de Beloeil - Practical information
Thanks Marc. I heard the story about the De Ligne family before but not about the others. Neither did I remember why exactly the Limburg-Stirums were out of the almanach.
You are right that 'equal' was different for some families. The Habsburgs in their hay days would never have dreamt of considering a Liechtenstein 'equal'. A mediatized house like Windisch Graetz was problematic too, though in the late 19th century more seemed to be possible.
The website of Beloeil Castle says;
WARNING: the castle and park will be exceptionally closed from 13 till 22 june 2016.
So I think the Mariage and party's around it are in that time!
Château de Beloeil - Practical information
The church seems to be small. Only her maternal family will occupy half of the seats. 11 uncles and aunts, 28 cousins, plus spouses.
The Point de Vue report from Princess Christine de Ligne wedding with Prince Antonio of Brazil, in 1981, at Beloeil.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KzS1gUC5VJg/VlyAeFjCGtI/AAAAAAAAFlA/NQa7GMWhhm0/s1600/Foto+3+%282%29.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3DNQu2DCw2I/VlyAkLHxVCI/AAAAAAAAFlQ/BqDwpvfsvxc/s1600/Foto+5+%281%29.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OyJDxOgPfRE/VlyAj_3CunI/AAAAAAAAFlM/tnZwFzVxVWo/s1600/Foto+4+%281%29.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GjgwaOqYpLA/VlyAk-evxqI/AAAAAAAAFlY/ejj29i2CKhg/s1600/Foto+6+%281%29.jpg