The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > Royal House of Sweden > Princess Madeleine, Chris O'Neill and Family

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #81  
Old 07-22-2015, 01:45 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: ***, Sweden
Posts: 1,785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fürstin Taxis View Post
Personally he could have worded it better.

And btw some seem to think that Sweden is this ultra feminist pc country, but they are only a bit more aware of sexism then other countries. See the headlines and the comments here by the Swedish posters confirms it. Chris won't get burned on the stake now lmao.
Exactly!! Thank you for wording it so nicely! We are not some power hungry women burning people at stakes. Here Feminism means equality for all (well... there are a few bad seeds that makes the rest of feminism look bad) and not mans hate :P
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 07-22-2015, 02:25 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: N/A, France
Posts: 1,775
Quote:
Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
I can't remember much (if any) furor about Sofia being from Swedes (I could be wrong). I think it can be summarized as Swedes are not very tolerant of non-tolerance. So sexism and racism are like the biggest taboos over here.
What is precisely non-tolerance?

I have read the whole discussion about Chris' interview. Although I do agree "breadwinner" wasn't the best word to use in a swedish context, and althought I do too understand how what he said can sound old-fashioned (to say the least), I fail to see why it is shocking when a woman in a couple does not have her own income. When a couple can afford it to have only one income, why should it be interpreted as a misogynist choice?
I am not advocating the model "daddy is working, mummy is at home being a housekeeper", but sometimes, too much love of equality is preventing people to do what they really want to do. An example. If we could afford it, even with no children at home, I would quit working and do a lot of things I would thoroughly enjoy, even if not providing an income. For a lot of people we know, it would be highly sexist. However, it would be our choice and it wouldn't prevent my husband to be in favor of salaries equality and against all discriminations against women. But a kind of feminism wouldn't understand a woman can willingly choose not to work (to say nothing about the middle-upper-class feminist activist who are stilling failing to understand woman are sometimes bound to stay at home for nursery fees can be higher than a woman income, and therefore do nothing for against it).

I have a feeling it is the same with some other matters (most of the times related with religion and women). When someone do not agree with the majority's opinion, no matter he has never insulted, harassed or made a disrepectful comment on anybody. The simple fact he disagrees, even if he is always very respectful towards people whose behaviour he disapproves, will have him labelled as old-fashioned, sexist, misogynist, hateful.

Sometimes, a too strong love of equality and tolerance leads to an unability to understand that the one with whom we disagree may have very good reason not to agree with us.

That is not at all against Sweden or swedish society : I have met the same in France. It explain a lot of clashes. And that won't prevent me to travel, when I am able too, in Sweden, a country I would very much like to discover.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 07-22-2015, 02:37 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: ***, Sweden
Posts: 1,785


I agree. This is kind of a problem here in Sweden. We are working so hard towards equality that it can sometimes hinder personality. But the pendelum has to swing hard the other way first to later hang in the middle :P

So we are really, honestly not complaining about Chris or Madeleine and their life choice. At least I honestly am not. But merely putting it into a general Swedish context.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 07-22-2015, 02:54 PM
Cris M's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Niterói, Brazil
Posts: 847
I always had the impression that the Swedish society was fairly democratic, but I think it's appalling that someone who is a conservative is perceived as a problem.

That proves I'm right when I think the more the person is on the left of the political spectrum, the more he/she is unable to deal with different opinions and ideologies.
__________________
“If a thousand thrones I had, I would give a thousand thrones to get the slaves free in Brazil."

Princess Isabel (1846-1921), Princess Imperial and Regent of the Empire of Brazil, after she signed the Golden Law, in 1888, abolishing slavery in Brazil.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 07-22-2015, 02:55 PM
xenobia's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Near the artic circle, Sweden
Posts: 572
My problem with women who isn't working is that I've seen examples - from friends abroad and from an older generation here - is that she's not always able make the life choices she wants to. (The same would apply to a man who is supported by his wife). My husband makes more money than me, but I'm working as well and bringing money to the household. I could manage well on my own. If our relationship breaks down, I can support myself.

Here in Sweden, you have to pay child support (but a low sum) if you divorce and have kids. But a husband isn't required to support his ex-wife in any way, like he is in the US.

I don't think that Madeleine and the kids would be on welfare if their marriage broke down. She has her own money. If she makes the choice to not work, I'm fine with that. But most women who want some kind of control over their own destiny have to be able to support themselves.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 07-22-2015, 03:00 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: ***, Sweden
Posts: 1,785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cris M View Post
I always had the impression that the Swedish society was fairly democratic, but I think it's appalling that someone who is a conservative is perceived as a problem.

That proves I'm right when I think the more the person is on the left of the political spectrum, the more he/she is unable to deal with different opinions and ideologies.
He's not at all seen as a problem. What makes you say that? We're just saying his views are rather unusual here. It would be like saying "Muslim views are rather unusual in the Vatican". It's not racist, just noting that the persons ideologi is not the norm in that particular place. I am very open to his views, and have found this "discussion" very informaative and facinating.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 07-22-2015, 03:05 PM
Cris M's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Niterói, Brazil
Posts: 847
Quote:
Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
He's not at all seen as a problem. What makes you say that? We're just saying his views are rather unusual here. It would be like saying "Muslim views are rather unusual in the Vatican". It's not racist, just noting that the persons ideologi is not the norm in that particular place. I am very open to his views, and have found this "discussion" very informaative and facinating.
Well, some of the post here made me think that the swedes are not very open to different opinions, especially conservative and right-wings ones. I hope I'm wrong.

I teach History in a major university here in Brazil and I'm alway appalled to see how my left-wings students are totally unable to deal with opinions different from theirs.

And I happen to be a right-wing conservative, a monarchist and traditionalist Catholic. So you can imagine how difficult things can be sometimes.
__________________
“If a thousand thrones I had, I would give a thousand thrones to get the slaves free in Brazil."

Princess Isabel (1846-1921), Princess Imperial and Regent of the Empire of Brazil, after she signed the Golden Law, in 1888, abolishing slavery in Brazil.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 07-22-2015, 03:19 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: ***, Sweden
Posts: 1,785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cris M View Post
Well, some of the post here made me think that the swedes are not very open to different opinions, especially conservative and right-wings ones. I hope I'm wrong.

I teach History in a major university here in Brazil and I'm alway appalled to see how my left-wings students are totally unable to deal with opinions different from theirs.

And I happen to be a right-wing conservative, a monarchist and traditionalist Catholic. So you can imagine how difficult things can be sometimes.
And I have had the same experience with conservatives (although I'm considered a rather conservative here...). There are open and close minded people on all sides of the spectrum just as there are in countries, genders, religions, sexual orientations. etc.

Also, you are mentioning students? In teens/young adult age you are usually more "extreme" in your views and it widens when you get experiences. Plus, it's the more extreme ones thaat will be vocal in class, so yoou wouldn't hear much of it from the more "normal" left-wings.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 07-22-2015, 03:26 PM
Lee-Z's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Heerlen, Netherlands
Posts: 2,148
And let's not forget that what's considered "left" in one country is "right" in another
__________________
Wisdom begins in wonder - Socrates
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 07-22-2015, 03:31 PM
Muhler's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 8,780
Let's return to Chris for a while.

What is the opinion in the street and in the media of the interview?
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 07-22-2015, 03:32 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: ***, Sweden
Posts: 1,785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
And let's not forget that what's considered "left" in one country is "right" in another
Very true. Left US is very Right Sweden.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Let's return to Chris for a while.

What is the opinion in the street and in the media of the interview?
I honestly have not much idea (am sick at the moment) but most people seem somewhere between unknowing, neutral and bunching him together with the princesses party persona.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 07-22-2015, 03:38 PM
Lee-Z's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Heerlen, Netherlands
Posts: 2,148
Just my 2 cts, what for me jumped out from this interview is that he really focusses on his family and his job and not one or the other; i can imagine he loves to come home to his family at night and not to an empty hotel room
and i thought it was cute that Leonore and him are both learning swedish

(for who's counting, i considere myself a lefty (on the dutch scale ) and almost threw a salesman out of my house when he kept insisting on wanting to talk to "the male breadwinner in the house" even after i explained that i was a single woman with a full-time job )
__________________
Wisdom begins in wonder - Socrates
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 07-22-2015, 03:44 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: N/A, France
Posts: 1,775
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
My problem with women who isn't working is that I've seen examples - from friends abroad and from an older generation here - is that she's not always able make the life choices she wants to. (The same would apply to a man who is supported by his wife). My husband makes more money than me, but I'm working as well and bringing money to the household. I could manage well on my own. If our relationship breaks down, I can support myself.

Here in Sweden, you have to pay child support (but a low sum) if you divorce and have kids. But a husband isn't required to support his ex-wife in any way, like he is in the US.

I don't think that Madeleine and the kids would be on welfare if their marriage broke down. She has her own money. If she makes the choice to not work, I'm fine with that. But most women who want some kind of control over their own destiny have to be able to support themselves.
I do agree with you on almost all your points. However, for personal reasons, I would like it if I could afford to quit my job and do some other things which would not earn me an income but would lead me to a life I have chosen. Actually, it's being forced to have my own income which prevents me from accomplishing my real life choices. As a woman who has been educated for a long time, I am supposed to love being able to ask for jobs as prestigious as men can get, and it is supposed to make me blooming as much as men. That is not something that can be easily explained here. I should add we belong neither to upper class neither to aristocracy. We are happy to have fewer needs than most of people and to be able to live with not so high incomes.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 07-22-2015, 03:45 PM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 6,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
And I have had the same experience with conservatives (although I'm considered a rather conservative here...). There are open and close minded people on all sides of the spectrum just as there are in countries, genders, religions, sexual orientations. etc.

Also, you are mentioning students? In teens/young adult age you are usually more "extreme" in your views and it widens when you get experiences. Plus, it's the more extreme ones thaat will be vocal in class, so yoou wouldn't hear much of it from the more "normal" left-wings.
Thank you hernameispekka. In the US, both the extreme Left and Right are in the process of destroying the country. Hypocrisy, immorality, an obsession with empty political correctness, greed, ignorance of history and an absolute lack of charity reign supreme.

And I loathe both sides equally with a passion.

Sancia, thank you for expressing my own ideas so well, as usual.
__________________
"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 07-22-2015, 03:46 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: N/A, France
Posts: 1,775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
And let's not forget that what's considered "left" in one country is "right" in another
Or that people can have "left ideas" on some subjects and "right ideas" on other ones.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 07-22-2015, 03:54 PM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 6,484
That best describes ME!
__________________
"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 07-22-2015, 04:37 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: N/A, France
Posts: 1,775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
That best describes ME!
And me as well, as you may have guessed
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 07-22-2015, 05:28 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 1,786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sancia View Post
What is precisely non-tolerance?

I have read the whole discussion about Chris' interview. Although I do agree "breadwinner" wasn't the best word to use in a swedish context, and althought I do too understand how what he said can sound old-fashioned (to say the least), I fail to see why it is shocking when a woman in a couple does not have her own income..
Royal families' finances tend to be rather secretive, but most web sites I found on a quick Google search put Madeleine's net worth in the range of at least 10 million dollars. I would be very surprised if she, as you claim, did not have any income from portfolio investments, or a trust fund, or something like that. For sure, Madeleine doesn't need anyone to serve as "her breadwinner" as she is herself personally wealthy.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 07-22-2015, 05:43 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
You nailed it, Gerry.
This is indeed a cultural difference as we can tell from the national reactions.
I will not go much into Danish mindset and culture because you would be surprised at how different the Scandinavian countries are in regards to how we look at things and this is mainly about Sweden
.
In Sweden most men will call themselves or even define themselves as feminists, usually with genuine conviction because the Swedes are almost obsessively egalitarian, especially in regards to gender issues.
While in Denmark calling himself feminist (they do exist BTW) would be considered downright silly and worse: trying to be politically correct and that is not a compliment!
However, that does not mean that we Danish husbands do not believe women should be equal to men, we certainly do! - Provided they make it on their own, without special considerations...

So in Scandinavia a man defining himself as "the breadwinner" in the family (even if it's true) sounds like something our grandads would say. Simply because the wast majority of women here have been out working since the late 1970's. In fact when you on rare occasions do encounter a housewife with no or minimal income of her own, she really is a novelty and who is met with genuine curiosity. How can you afford that? Don't you feel under stimulated? And so on.

The difference between Sweden and Denmark is that while a man saying "I'm the breadwinner of the family" is about as politically incorrect as you can be in Sweden. In Denmark he would be met with amusement - even on building sites. Followed by the question: "How the Hansen can you afford that? Do you earn that much!?!" Or being assumed that he's got a mailorder bride at home, straight off the plane.
How they would view things from an Icelandic, Finnish or Norwegian perspective I'll leave to others.

-------------------------------------

- I'm glad you are enjoying your stay in DK, especially Aarhus, Gerry.
"Straight out of the 50's?" Because so many buildings are old and low?
As for uniformity. That's the tribal mentality. We are a part of a tribe so we look like the tribe - while at the same time we genuinely believe we are very individual.
You may also have noticed, that even though we are in the middle of the holiday season, the pace is also slower over here.
And one final thing, if you have the time, I strongly suggest you go to the town of Hvide Sande on the west coast. Apart from enjoying the scenery (and the tourists, doing their best to drown themselves...) there is a fish-restaurant at a quay in the harbor there. The fishing boats offload some of their catch at the kitchen side so the fish are literally hardly dead when they are being served and they are big!
Thanks for the tip, I will look into Hvide Sande, but is there only the one fish restaurant there? This I also find curious that I can smell the sea from my window but there is a decided lack of fish-except the huge selection of frozen goods at the local supermarket. Perhaps it is a consequence of 'egalitarianism'...no one has time to cook anymore!? About the 1950's and Aarhus: the combination of uniformity, uninspiring architecture (except for Dok1 and Moesgaard) and, indeed the pace of life here make me wonder...such a difference with Copenhagen but a great place to do some undisturbed writing!
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 07-22-2015, 05:48 PM
Nice Nofret's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 515
I very much doubt that Madeleine has so much funds - I believe she gets a apanage from her father, and after the death of him, she will inherit - but not yet.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
chris o'neill, prince nicolas, prince nicolas of sweden, princess leonore, princess madeleine


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
General News about Madeleine, Chris, and Leonore, Part 1: April 2014 - June 2015 JessRulz Current Events Archive 584 06-17-2015 05:26 PM
Princess Madeleine of Sweden and Chris O'Neill's Pre-Wedding Dinner: June 7, 2013 Marengo Pre-wedding Events 221 03-15-2015 12:06 AM
General Information on Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill Ansgar Princess Madeleine, Chris O'Neill and Family 250 04-24-2014 11:04 PM




Popular Tags
ascot 2016 best gown best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit best outfit 2016 catherine middleton style countess of wessex coup d'etat crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion crown princess mette-marit current events dom duarte duchess of cambridge e-mail fashion poll felipe vi grand duchess josephine-charlotte grand duke jean greece kate middleton king abdullah ii king carl gustaf's birthday king felipe king felipe vi king willem-alexander member introduction monarchy new zealand nobel gala norway november 2016 october 2016 opening of parliament picture of the week prince bernhard prince charles princess madeleine daytime fashion princess marie princess mary princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mary hats queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen mathildes outfits queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania royal fashion september 2016 state visit state visit to denmark succession sweden the duchess of cambridge the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:39 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016
Jelsoft Enterprises