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  #481  
Old 01-10-2017, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
But the Wessexes don't generate the same sense of excitement and have little press coverage.

(Really it almost seems, for some events, the RF is saying send them, everybody else has better things to do!)

I'm not saying this is the case, exactly, but sometimes it gives that appearance.

I think the reason the public is pushing for the Cambridges to become more involved is simply because they want to see more of them.
I think when it comes to attending celebrations such as weddings with foreign royals, its not about generating excitement and press coverage but being there to share in the occasion. Should a prince or princess of a country marry and hold a wedding attended by representatives of other families, the last thing needed would be for one of their guests to detract from the occasion with the focus in the press being on some of the attendees.

As has been stated, the Wessexes attend these functions because they actually know and enjoy interacting with the people involved. Its what they do and have been doing for quite a while and I don't see any reason to change it.
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  #482  
Old 01-10-2017, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by MargotRosie View Post
So I've been reading this entire thread and there are few things I don't get.
So there seem to be a financial reason as to why the 3 younger royals can't become full-time royal. So when William's contract will be done this year, both he and his wife will work more? Unless a tragedy happens by then, the number of working royal will still be the same, so I don't understand the "there is not enough money now".

And also about the "raising kids" time that was given to the Cambridges, will the same treatment given to Harry and his future wife? I'm assuming that Harry will probably be a full-time royal by then.
As for money, this is what Charles' then private secretary had to say about it in 2013.

"Whatever the Duke of Cambridge's plans, the Prince of Wales would have to look carefully at how he continues to fund the official activities of the staff and support for the five senior members of the Royal Family whom he is paying for,"


Prince Charles’ big bill for Wills, Kate and Harry | Royal | News | Daily Express

So obviously Charles thinks money is an issue but the Cambridges and Harry are increasing their workload. It's just some people seem to want them to be the focus and centerpiece of the monarchy, and that won't happen until William is heir to the throne.

Princess Elizabeth as heir was allowed to live in Malta and her husband have a naval career. It was only the declining health and death of the her father that forced her hand. If it was good enough for William's grandmother, it should be good enough for him.

I certainly don't begrudge the 'younger' royals desire to balance royal life with a private life.
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  #483  
Old 01-10-2017, 10:28 AM
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Are we seriously arguing about who should be sent to the Continental events - the Cambridges or Wessexes?

What Continental events are we thinking of specifically? Funerals I believe are typically case handled and the BRF doesn't always send a royal.

Weddings are another thing... yes the Wessexes are typically sent... but given as other than the King of Spain's divorced sister, Harry, and the Yorks, the next oldest unmarried royal is the 25-year-old Princess Alexandra of Luxembourg isn't this argument a bit silly?

The Wessexes are not of an age of any royal that is going to be married in the next few years. Neither are the Cambridges, really. The Yorks are closest in age to the next bunch (the younger Luxembourgers and the Liechtensteiners), and after that... actually the Wessex children and Cambridge children.
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  #484  
Old 01-10-2017, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
But the Wessexes don't generate the same sense of excitement and have little press coverage.

(Really it almost seems, for some events, the RF is saying send them, everybody else has better things to do!)

I'm not saying this is the case, exactly, but sometimes it gives that appearance.

I think the reason the public is pushing for the Cambridges to become more involved is simply because they want to see more of them.
Since Day One I have always pushed (though no one in RF listened) to see more of William and Catherine. As you so rightly say we want to see more of them, they are popular with younger people. That detracts nothing from HM, Philip, Charles or Camilla but and I don't make the comparison lightly the BRF needs an injection of pazazz like what Diana did. The simple enthusiasm that people felt when Diana joined. People may scream and say that's not what the BRF is supposed to be about, but we're not in 1952 anymore and The Queen can walk on water.

However I like iluvbertie agree that there is no point pushing the wessexs' out to get W&C in. Edward and Sophie have firm friendships with these couples, for instance the next upcoming event is the joint Norwegian 70th Birthday stuff, if The Queen chose to send William and Catherine, more than likely Edward and Sophie would be invited as guests anyway. So why send 4 when you can send 2?

The biggest issue with continental royal relationships is the age cap. Charles was too older for his European Counterparts and William is now too young.
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  #485  
Old 01-10-2017, 11:36 AM
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What now for William & Catherine: Future Duties, Roles and Responsibilities

There is stuff that happens on continental Europe more than weddings. Most events don't have to be about the foreign royal families.

Why did William go to Germany or Kate the Netherlands? It was anniversary of a German state and visiting British troops. Kate was invited to visit a museum that was staging an exhibition on loan from the British Royal Collection.

There are 100th anniversary remembrances for the third Battle of Ypres this year. The Cambridges can attend those like the Somme 100 ones last year.


There are not weddings on the horizon but in time there will be funerals and coronations. We have seen Charles attend these types of events for the Queen like Mandela's funeral and W-A installation as his job as heir. When Charles is King, that's going to be William.
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  #486  
Old 01-10-2017, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Since Day One I have always pushed (though no one in RF listened) to see more of William and Catherine. As you so rightly say we want to see more of them, they are popular with younger people. That detracts nothing from HM, Philip, Charles or Camilla but and I don't make the comparison lightly the BRF needs an injection of pazazz like what Diana did. The simple enthusiasm that people felt when Diana joined. People may scream and say that's not what the BRF is supposed to be about, but we're not in 1952 anymore and The Queen can walk on water.

However I like iluvbertie agree that there is no point pushing the wessexs' out to get W&C in. Edward and Sophie have firm friendships with these couples, for instance the next upcoming event is the joint Norwegian 70th Birthday stuff, if The Queen chose to send William and Catherine, more than likely Edward and Sophie would be invited as guests anyway. So why send 4 when you can send 2?

The biggest issue with continental royal relationships is the age cap. Charles was too older for his European Counterparts and William is now too young.
I don't think it has anything to do with age of the Cambridge's. I happen to think it's best to start sending a future King and Queen to these future events.
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  #487  
Old 01-10-2017, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I don't think it has anything to do with age of the Cambridge's. I happen to think it's best to start sending a future King and Queen to these future events.
The next king and queen don't even attend most these events, why should the Cambridges go?

If it's about representing the BRF, Charles and Camilla come ahead of W&C.
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  #488  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
As for money, this is what Charles' then private secretary had to say about it in 2013.

"Whatever the Duke of Cambridge's plans, the Prince of Wales would have to look carefully at how he continues to fund the official activities of the staff and support for the five senior members of the Royal Family whom he is paying for,"


Prince Charles’ big bill for Wills, Kate and Harry | Royal | News | Daily Express

So obviously Charles thinks money is an issue but the Cambridges and Harry are increasing their workload. It's just some people seem to want them to be the focus and centerpiece of the monarchy, and that won't happen until William is heir to the throne.

Princess Elizabeth as heir was allowed to live in Malta and her husband have a naval career. It was only the declining health and death of the her father that forced her hand. If it was good enough for William's grandmother, it should be good enough for him.

I certainly don't begrudge the 'younger' royals desire to balance royal life with a private life.
It's not that I don't believe that money is an issue, what I don't get is why some members are saying that the Cambridges will increase their workload when William's contract is up?
Normally William won't be the heir and the money issue will still be there since the number of working royals won't decrease so I don't understand the contract thing.

So either the money issue is not real and it's his job at the EAA that is preventing him to work more or the money issue is real and when he'll leave his job, his engagements numbers won't differ than from last year.
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  #489  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
The next king and queen don't even attend most these events, why should the Cambridges go?

If it's about representing the BRF, Charles and Camilla come ahead of W&C.
Yes, if Charles and Camilla can't attend, the next couple that should be attending are the Cambridge's. If the Cambridge's can't go, then it would make sense to send the Wessex's.
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  #490  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MargotRosie View Post
It's not that I don't believe that money is an issue, what I don't get is why some members are saying that the Cambridges will increase their workload when William's contract is up?
Normally William won't be the heir and the money issue will still be there since the number of working royals won't decrease so I don't understand the contract thing.

So either the money issue is not real and it's his job at the EAA that is preventing him to work more or the money issue is real and when he'll leave his job, his engagements numbers won't differ than from last year.
Charles' private secretary made the statement about funding. You'd have to direct questions about it to his office. I'm just providing the quotes.

Their workload is increasing but it's still below 200. For people who want to see 500 plus engagements a year, that just isn't going to happen, at least not until William is heir to the throne and maybe not ever. If the rumours of Charles wanting to focus on quality over quantity are true, the days of royals doing so many engagements maybe coming to an end.
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  #491  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Charles' private secretary made the statement about funding. You'd have to direct questions about it to his office. I'm just providing the quotes.

Their workload is increasing but it's still below 200. For people who want to see 500 plus engagements a year, that just isn't going to happen, at least not until William is heir to the throne and maybe not ever. If the rumours of Charles wanting to focus on quality over quantity are true, the days of royals doing so many engagements maybe coming to an end.
I do think those days of doing those number engagements are coming to an end too. Listen, these young royals want to focus and be very hands of with actual issues. I'm sure they will cut some ribbons and open some centers, but they want to focus on deeper issues now.
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  #492  
Old 01-10-2017, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Charles' private secretary made the statement about funding. You'd have to direct questions about it to his office. I'm just providing the quotes.

Their workload is increasing but it's still below 200. For people who want to see 500 plus engagements a year, that just isn't going to happen, at least not until William is heir to the throne and maybe not ever. If the rumours of Charles wanting to focus on quality over quantity are true, the days of royals doing so many engagements maybe coming to an end.
I agree, thought so for a while. Charles, William and Harry do "events" that dont make it to the CC. They do interviews, make videos, recordings for radio. William did 30+ of those last year and Harry did over20.

with the advent of different media options, CC numbers will be less relevent. Or perhaps when Charles is King, this type of work will count.

There will always be the need to be seen out and about but not 500 CC appearances.
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  #493  
Old 01-10-2017, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Since Day One I have always pushed (though no one in RF listened) to see more of William and Catherine. As you so rightly say we want to see more of them, they are popular with younger people. That detracts nothing from HM, Philip, Charles or Camilla but and I don't make the comparison lightly the BRF needs an injection of pazazz like what Diana did. The simple enthusiasm that people felt when Diana joined. People may scream and say that's not what the BRF is supposed to be about, but we're not in 1952 anymore and The Queen can walk on water.
I think it's easy to feel that way looking from the outside in, but I suspect the sentiment is not shared by some within the BRF. There was clear discomfort with Diana's star power and I still don't think they fully recognize what good she did for them, even as they trade in on it with the exhibits at Kensington, etc.

Charles in particular always seemed to truly believe there was danger in being outshone by a brighter, more vibrant star, and his push to focus attention on a smaller group even at events where there is absolutely zero cost (such as balcony appearances) to have more family in the spotlight makes me think he still feels that way. Right now, he's getting the most positive reception he's had since the 1970s and he clearly enjoys it. I don't think he's ready to share much more of that good attention, even with his kids. Not until he's had a chance to settle into his role as king and feel secure on the throne (secure in terms of public opinion), anyway.
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  #494  
Old 01-10-2017, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by loonytick View Post

Charles in particular always seemed to truly believe there was danger in being outshone by a brighter, more vibrant star, and his push to focus attention on a smaller group even at events where there is absolutely zero cost (such as balcony appearances) to have more family in the spotlight makes me think he still feels that way.
The only time a limited number of royals appeared on the balcony was at the close of the diamond jubilee celebrations. I thought that delivered a powerful message that this was the future, a message that was clearly understood.

I don't think Charles is threatened in any way by other members of the royal family at all. Increasing the focus on the main players of the future is not in any way a sign of insecurity, to me it is a sign of clearly communicating the brand with the audience.
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  #495  
Old 01-10-2017, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
Charles in particular always seemed to truly believe there was danger in being outshone by a brighter, more vibrant star, and his push to focus attention on a smaller group even at events where there is absolutely zero cost (such as balcony appearances) to have more family in the spotlight makes me think he still feels that way.

But it's the members of that smaller group who get the attention: William, Harry, Kate.

Other members of the RF aren't apt to outshine him.
So if he really is worried about that, he is moving in the wrong direction.
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  #496  
Old 01-10-2017, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
I think it's easy to feel that way looking from the outside in, but I suspect the sentiment is not shared by some within the BRF. There was clear discomfort with Diana's star power and I still don't think they fully recognize what good she did for them, even as they trade in on it with the exhibits at Kensington, etc.
I disagree with this in part but understand the logic. It's clear that The Queen particularly recognises what Diana brought simply because of what other royals have done since her death. The interviews, the videos, the realising of archive footage, the areas of interest royals are getting in to, the freedom they have to "grow" in their roles without being shoved up the top of the tree.

Diana was brand new for the RF, coming in to a family who's matriarch was a woman born in 1900. I mean this in the most loving way, but The Queen would be a fool not to look at what Diana taught them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
Charles in particular always seemed to truly believe there was danger in being outshone by a brighter, more vibrant star, and his push to focus attention on a smaller group even at events where there is absolutely zero cost (such as balcony appearances) to have more family in the spotlight makes me think he still feels that way. Right now, he's getting the most positive reception he's had since the 1970s and he clearly enjoys it. I don't think he's ready to share much more of that good attention, even with his kids. Not until he's had a chance to settle into his role as king and feel secure on the throne (secure in terms of public opinion), anyway.

I agree that this was the case at the time of his first marriage, like i previously mentioned Diana was brand new to the RF and she stood out. The RF didn't understand her, Charles especially.

However Charles has never pushed focus on to smaller balcony appearances, as it is The Queen who makes that decision. I think Charles has embraced his children for what they bring to the monarchy he will one day rule over. They all work well together, and I think Charles has become a lot smarter in the way he handles things publicly. Charles cannot choose what attention his children receive, and consistently it's nothing but positive.
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  #497  
Old 01-10-2017, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
Charles in particular always seemed to truly believe there was danger in being outshone by a brighter, more vibrant star, and his push to focus attention on a smaller group even at events where there is absolutely zero cost (such as balcony appearances)
Balcony appearances are not zero cost.

They entail massive more security - having been to a number of royal events the sheer number of obvious police around when there is a balcony appearance to when there is just one or two royals is incredible.

They still have the cost of the clothes etc - and most of them wear new clothes for those occasions.

There is often a flypast from the RAF - another cost.

Balcony appearances are some of the most expensive events rather then zero cost.

Last year, for instance, I was staying at a central London hotel over the Trooping the Colour weekend - along with a number of armed police who were brought in from other parts of the country and all had single rooms from the Thursday night before the church service until the Monday morning after the Patron's lunch. Each hotel room was over 300 pounds a night. This is a regular occurrence at that hotel - according to the concierge whom I questioned about their presence as I wasn't expecting to see 4 armed police entering my hotel so was querying whether it was safe for me to enter - whenever there is a major London royal events with a couple of 100 cops brought in from elsewhere to add to the Metropolitan Police.
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Old 01-10-2017, 06:15 PM
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I find that there are many new posters who have no idea how the BRF is run, its costs and issues with events. Admittedly we don't have 20 car convoys (we prefer open, horse drawn carriages), but the cost is still huge. The same happens on those tours/trips usually dismissed as "ribbon cutting". Crowds turn out and so do the local police. All at a cost.

There is a great thread on Forums about Royal Finances. It's worth reading.

EDIT: I'd try and put up the link but last time I did that, people were lost for a week )
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  #499  
Old 01-10-2017, 06:36 PM
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I find that there are many new posters who have no idea how the BRF is run, its costs and issues with events. Admittedly we don't have 20 car convoys (we prefer open, horse drawn carriages), but the cost is still huge. The same happens on those tours/trips usually dismissed as "ribbon cutting". Crowds turn out and so do the local police. All at a cost.

There is a great thread on Forums about Royal Finances. It's worth reading.

EDIT: I'd try and put up the link but last time I did that, people were lost for a week )

Can it at least be a 20 horse drawn carriage convoy?

Your choice on if that requires 20 horses or 20 carriages... although I suspect the former will involve a lot of horse dung and the latter will involve even more....
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Old 01-10-2017, 06:53 PM
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Can it at least be a 20 horse drawn carriage convoy?

Your choice on if that requires 20 horses or 20 carriages... although I suspect the former will involve a lot of horse dung and the latter will involve even more....
I just did that laughing out loud thing ... what do they call it ... yes.. LOL
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