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  #261  
Old 05-13-2011, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ashelen View Post
now when he nad her got this new title Duke and duchess comes with more money and properties???????? it is any paper that show that title?

There is no property or money associated with this title.

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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I like that.

Reminds me of something I heard a long time ago about the friendship between Queen Victoria and Albert Einstein. From what I read, they had regular correspondence and Albert's salute in the letters was always "Dear Queen".

I must admit that I find it strange that they would have developed any sort of friendship as he was not quite 22 when she died.

Are you sure it was Victoria?
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  #262  
Old 05-14-2011, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I must admit that I find it strange that they would have developed any sort of friendship as he was not quite 22 when she died.

Are you sure it was Victoria?
I'm pretty sure it was but its been years since I read it and like most things in my memory, could have been filed in the wrong spot. I wish I could remember where I read it.

So I went searching. Boy was I off base. He was lifelong friends with Queen Elizabeth of Belgium. Now where did I get Victoria?? Ok.. back on topic we go.
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  #263  
Old 05-14-2011, 03:57 PM
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Another nice blog dealing with the controversial issue as to whether or not Kate is a princess.
Is Kate a Princess? | The Royal Universe
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  #264  
Old 05-14-2011, 04:35 PM
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"such as Camilla, Sarah, and the Queen Mother before her husband’s accession) and the Countess of Wessex also aren’t (or weren’t) princesses"

What? this just makes me even more confused
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  #265  
Old 05-14-2011, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Mia_mae View Post
"such as Camilla, Sarah, and the Queen Mother before her husband’s accession) and the Countess of Wessex also aren’t (or weren’t) princesses"

What? this just makes me even more confused
Yes, well, you aren't the only one. A lot of people are confused by Buckingham Palace's insistence that the only actual princesses are the ones whose title says Princess. This means that the present Duchess of Gloucester would have been a princess during the couple of years before the old duke died and she was Princess Richard, but hasn't been a princess since her husband inherited the dukedom. And apparently Buckingham Palace has confirmed that William is still a prince, which makes their attitude toward Kate and the other duchesses seem very strange.

IMO there seems to be some tension between Buckingham Palace and Clarence House on this issue, as I said in the blog. It's been pretty widely reported that William wanted Kate to be known as Princess Catherine, and the Clarence House communications director seems to be encouraging the informal use of this title. In contrast, Buckingham Palace, reflecting the Queen's wish for William to accept a dukedom and not have Catherine be styled Princess anything, seems to be going to the other extreme.

It'll be interesting where they put Kate in any revised order of precedence. Andrew always preceded Edward, even when Andrew was a duke and Edward was a prince. And the Gloucesters (both of them) have always preceded the Michaels even though Princess Michael is a Princess and the Duchess of Gloucester, according to Buckingham Palace, isn't.
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  #266  
Old 05-14-2011, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Mia_mae
"such as Camilla, Sarah, and the Queen Mother before her husband’s accession) and the Countess of Wessex also aren’t (or weren’t) princesses"

What? this just makes me even more confused
Also at the Queen Mum's funeral when they read her titles they called her HRH Princess Elizabeth ...etc... So even more BS and confusion from BP
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  #267  
Old 05-14-2011, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ghost_night554
Another nice blog dealing with the controversial issue as to whether or not Kate is a princess.
Is Kate a Princess? | The Royal Universe
Well that about sums up the confusion.... Doesn't answer the question but lines up the issues nicely- BP should issue one statement saying she holds rank of Princess through her husband but is a Duchess not a Princess (or some such wording, whatever the truth is - VERY clearly)-
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  #268  
Old 05-15-2011, 07:15 PM
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Well that about sums up the confusion.... Doesn't answer the question but lines up the issues nicely- BP should issue one statement saying she holds rank of Princess through her husband but is a Duchess not a Princess (or some such wording, whatever the truth is - VERY clearly)-
I have to wonder what it felt like the first time she heard herself referred to as Your Royal Highness.
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  #269  
Old 05-16-2011, 02:25 AM
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I have to wonder what it felt like the first time she heard herself referred to as Your Royal Highness.
If it was in a crowd of people, I bet she would have just smiled at him/her and said some generic thanks and smiled. I did a receiving line for my son's wedding and there were generic nice things to say to people I had NO clue who they were. I would imagine though that the first to call her that were the footmen helping her into the carriage to go back to BP. (other than people she knew)
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  #270  
Old 05-16-2011, 02:20 PM
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I have to wonder what it felt like the first time she heard herself referred to as Your Royal Highness.
"Mine? Oh yes, I guess you can say that since he's my husband now"
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  #271  
Old 05-16-2011, 02:55 PM
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I think the point the Palace is trying to make is The Queen Mother, Sophie, Camilla and Catherine are/were all married to Peers and thus were styled as the wives of Peers ("The Duchess of Cornwall, Cambridge, York, etc. The Countess of Wessex"). However, in Camilla's case, she is actually The Princess of Wales, so using their interpretation, she is a princess, not just a duchess, although she chose not to use her senior title after her marriage.

In any case, any woman who marries a Prince of the UK automatically becomes a Princess of the UK with the style and rank of HRH. The only exception to this was in 1937 when George VI issued Letters Patent stating Wallis Simpson would be denied the right to share her husband's royal rank.

If the Palace is trying to say wives do not automatically become Princesses, then why was it necessary to issue letters patent to deny Wallis royal rank as HRH, which was enjoyed as "HRH The Princess Edward", the wife of "HRH The Prince Edward" automatically in law and common practice?

It really isn't clear what they are trying to emphasize, except perhaps their displeasure as Elspeth said, with the statement from Clarence House that people may call Catherine "Princess Catherine" if they wish. That is totally incorrect as she is now a royal duchess as HRH The Duchess of Cambridge.
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  #272  
Old 05-20-2011, 08:48 AM
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Does anyone know if the Letters Patent announcing William's being granted Duke of Cambridge etc., has been posted in the London Gazette yet? I haven't found it and I thought it would have been published by now - 3 weeks after the announcement.

Any and all thoughts, replies would be welcome. Thanks so much!
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  #273  
Old 05-20-2011, 11:21 AM
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I suspect that this is one of those thorny "diplomatic" issues. The queen has many constituencies to please: Prince William; "the princesses of the blood" and their supporters who have the queen's ear (especially Pr. Anne and the Duke of York, who are attentive to the small points of rank and precedence, and, in the Duke's case, his concern about the "rights" of his daughters; and there is the situation in which the wife of the prince of wales is styled "duchess," so Kate as the heir's heir's wife cannot have a more important title than the wife of the heir to the throne; and, finally, the interest of the people who like William very much and think he should get what he wants. So I'm guessing that the queen had BP put out the "official" position, and the p o w's office set out the unofficial, then there was a lot of shoulder shrugging on both sides. I wonder how long it will be before we see a revised precedence list, another thorny and related issue. Pure conjecture, but I'll bet this issue kept the oil lamps burning late at Buckingham Palace and Clarence House as they tried to figure it all out.

It is ridiculous in MHO to say that she is not a 'princess,' if Princess Michael gets the title and the Duchess of Gloucester was called 'princess richard' before her husband received the dukedom. Doesn't make sense to me. I'll wager it's primarily due to the Duchess of Cornwall not having the style of princess of wales. Just complicates everything on down the line.
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  #274  
Old 05-24-2011, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Susanna Wynne View Post
I suspect that this is one of those thorny "diplomatic" issues. The queen has many constituencies to please: Prince William; "the princesses of the blood" and their supporters who have the queen's ear (especially Pr. Anne and the Duke of York, who are attentive to the small points of rank and precedence, and, in the Duke's case, his concern about the "rights" of his daughters; and there is the situation in which the wife of the prince of wales is styled "duchess," so Kate as the heir's heir's wife cannot have a more important title than the wife of the heir to the throne; and, finally, the interest of the people who like William very much and think he should get what he wants. So I'm guessing that the queen had BP put out the "official" position, and the p o w's office set out the unofficial, then there was a lot of shoulder shrugging on both sides. I wonder how long it will be before we see a revised precedence list, another thorny and related issue. Pure conjecture, but I'll bet this issue kept the oil lamps burning late at Buckingham Palace and Clarence House as they tried to figure it all out.

It is ridiculous in MHO to say that she is not a 'princess,' if Princess Michael gets the title and the Duchess of Gloucester was called 'princess richard' before her husband received the dukedom. Doesn't make sense to me. I'll wager it's primarily due to the Duchess of Cornwall not having the style of princess of wales. Just complicates everything on down the line.

Huh? Camilla is the Princess of Wales, she just doesn't use it.
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  #275  
Old 05-25-2011, 05:26 PM
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My head hurts! I have to go and change my MA desires to study British history because all this crazy titles.
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  #276  
Old 05-26-2011, 01:35 PM
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Does anyone know if the Letters Patent announcing William's being granted Duke of Cambridge etc., has been posted in the London Gazette yet? I haven't found it and I thought it would have been published by now - 3 weeks after the announcement.

Any and all thoughts, replies would be welcome. Thanks so much!
I'm wondering if it hasn't been gazetted because it doesn't have the usual remainders. (i.e. to heirs male of the body lawfully begotten).

Maybe William wanted it modernized to include daughters? I don't know, but I'm wondering. Comments?
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  #277  
Old 05-31-2011, 09:52 PM
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Per the Vanity Fair article William wants to be known as Prince William and thus by default Kate will be known as Princess Catherine which will upset Sophie bc she wanted to be known as Princess Sophie but the Queen would not allow it. I'm trying to find link now- and VF is a very, very reliable source- not sure how reliable Nichols is though

http://m.vanityfair.com/online/daily...ne-to-you.html
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  #278  
Old 05-31-2011, 10:09 PM
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Per the Vanity Fair article William wants to be known as Prince William and thus by default Kate will be known as Princess Catherine which will upset Sophie bc she wanted to be known as Princess Sophie but the Queen would not allow it. I'm trying to find link now- and VF is a very, very reliable source- not sure how reliable Nichols is though

Prince William on Kate Middleton
The source is Katie Nichole who is hardly considered a reliable source.
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  #279  
Old 06-01-2011, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MRSJ View Post
Per the Vanity Fair article William wants to be known as Prince William and thus by default Kate will be known as Princess Catherine which will upset Sophie bc she wanted to be known as Princess Sophie but the Queen would not allow it. I'm trying to find link now- and VF is a very, very reliable source- not sure how reliable Nichols is though

Prince William on Kate Middleton

Catherine would not be "by default" known as Princess Catherine. By default, she is Princess William. That is her base title, without any other titles that William received on his wedding day. I also haven't heard that the Countess of Wessex wanted to be known as Princess Sophie, and pitched a fit when the Queen would not allow that.

Vanity Fair is no more or less reliable than any other publication, because they are at the mercy of the contributing authors.
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  #280  
Old 06-01-2011, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Sister Morphine

Catherine would not be "by default" known as Princess Catherine. By default, she is Princess William. That is her base title, without any other titles that William received on his wedding day. I also haven't heard that the Countess of Wessex wanted to be known as Princess Sophie, and pitched a fit when the Queen would not allow that.

Vanity Fair is no more or less reliable than any other publication, because they are at the mercy of the contributing authors.
I find VF far more reliable then say Star or US Weekly- they usually don't print garbage. As for the default Princess Catherine, I believe they are right as are you. In the know royal watchers know she's not Princess Catherine ever but this article seems to be saying (as did William press guy) that plp/media will call her Princess Catherine and it will become the norm (ie Princess Diana) .....

The article isn't stating Princess Catherine will be her official title by default or not, just her ''public'' one

Though many publications are still saying Prince William and Kate Middleton or PW and Duchess Catherine (both not right) that I've seen....
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