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  #301  
Old 03-25-2014, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Somewhere in my comfuzzled brain, my one remaining brain cell saw outfits and the word "diversity" and kind of rolled over and died. I expect it back in action tomorrow morning with my first cup of coffee.

We all have days like that. But, to a more serious discussion, I don't think William is as tied to tradition as Charles was at his age. William's upbringing was much different--and I'm not referring to Diana. The world changed a lot between the 1960s and the 1990s. I think these things are cyclical and the world may swing back towards formality and tradition before William becomes King. But I think that if William became King today, he may very well do away with some of the trappings of the monarchy.
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  #302  
Old 03-25-2014, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
We all have days like that. But, to a more serious discussion, I don't think William is as tied to tradition as Charles was at his age. William's upbringing was much different--and I'm not referring to Diana. The world changed a lot between the 1960s and the 1990s. I think these things are cyclical and the world may swing back towards formality and tradition before William becomes King. But I think that if William became King today, he may very well do away with some of the trappings of the monarchy.
I agree that William is more of a "just call me William" kind of guy but I think when it comes to protocol and traditions, he very well knows the history of the traditions and why they're followed. One incident that stood out in my mind when it comes to this is when HM visited the Angelsy RAF base in Wales. Knowing it was an "official" visit by his sovereign, William executed one of the most formal bows to his monarch I've ever seen. Many people mistook this as William leaning down to greet his much shorter grandmother.

In the time period between the 60s and now, quite a bit has already changed. There are fewer occasions that call for white tie, royalty are bused in for royal weddings and so forth. I can even expect to see some of these types of changes made for Charles' coronation. When it comes to the meat and potatoes of the monarchy, its traditions, I don't expect any future monarch changing those.
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  #303  
Old 03-25-2014, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I agree that William is more of a "just call me William" kind of guy but I think when it comes to protocol and traditions, he very well knows the history of the traditions and why they're followed. One incident that stood out in my mind when it comes to this is when HM visited the Angelsy RAF base in Wales. Knowing it was an "official" visit by his sovereign, William executed one of the most formal bows to his monarch I've ever seen. Many people mistook this as William leaning down to greet his much shorter grandmother.

In the time period between the 60s and now, quite a bit has already changed. There are fewer occasions that call for white tie, royalty are bused in for royal weddings and so forth. I can even expect to see some of these types of changes made for Charles' coronation. When it comes to the meat and potatoes of the monarchy, its traditions, I don't expect any future monarch changing those.
I agree that he will keep the essentials of tradition. I expect the Order of the Garter will continue and he will retain much of the ceremonies surrounding them. But if he becomes king in the next few years, I can see him doing away with the ceremonial robes. That may change as he gets older, but right now I think he feels uncomfortable with traditions like that.
  #304  
Old 03-25-2014, 09:22 PM
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And "two heartbeats away" in today's society could also mean that by the time William would have taken the throne, we could all be part of the United Federation of Planets. One never knows.
I've just (about) finished reading J D RObb's 40-or-so books set in 2058-60 about Lieutenant Eve Dallas; sometimes England is mentioned and it's been the 'King' of England. No Christian name, though! So that's one famous author (Nora Roberts) who thinks the Monarchy might well carry on!

Re Prince William (King William) possibly changing anything; i personally would like to see those who marry into the family and do the job, get to be Princesses in their own right; e.g. Princess Sophie, JMO!
  #305  
Old 03-25-2014, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I agree that he will keep the essentials of tradition. I expect the Order of the Garter will continue and he will retain much of the ceremonies surrounding them. But if he becomes king in the next few years, I can see him doing away with the ceremonial robes. That may change as he gets older, but right now I think he feels uncomfortable with traditions like that.
Just for reference, here's a link to the regalia of the Order of the Garter and a bit of its history. I think if William was to do away with the cloak, there's a whole lot of other stuff that would look very much out of place.

Changes were made though in the 20th century: "Up until the middle part of the 20th century, it was customary to wear Tudor style under-dress, consisting of white silk embroidered doublet, breeches, full hose, white doeskin pumps with satin bows and a sword belt with sword, under the robes. Nowadays, morning dress or a lounge suit is worn." Imagine William in that outfit!

Order of the Garter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy’. They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
― John Lennon
  #306  
Old 03-25-2014, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I agree that he will keep the essentials of tradition. I expect the Order of the Garter will continue and he will retain much of the ceremonies surrounding them. But if he becomes king in the next few years, I can see him doing away with the ceremonial robes. That may change as he gets older, but right now I think he feels uncomfortable with traditions like that.
Well, I hope he don't get rid of the robes of the Garter because it's one of the most beautiful parts of the Order and the ceremony.
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  #307  
Old 03-25-2014, 10:44 PM
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The thread is entertaining.
The monarchy under a future William___ will be the same as under his predecessors. The monarchy is an institution which will be finely attuned to a current situation within the UK. I doubt that the UK political landscape changes completely and brings new Cromwell to power.
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  #308  
Old 03-25-2014, 11:06 PM
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I think it would be nice to see King William & Queen Catherine carrying out Investitures at Buckingham Palace. I think it would be a nice modern twist to the ceremony.
Okaaay. Let's see, QEII is doing it exactly the same way her father did and Prince Charles and the rest of the crew are doing it the same way as dear old Mum and Granddad soooo . . . Do the hokey pokey and turn around but make sure the sword's blunt or it will be a quick change to the middle ages. A nice modern twist, no?
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  #309  
Old 03-25-2014, 11:44 PM
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The Monarchy under William

They already do investitures at BP. Most of them are done there. They also do one at Holyrood when the Queen is in Scotland in July. Investitures are also done at Windsor. Catherine isn't going to be doing investitures any ways. If William can't do it for some reason, the Prince of Wales aka George can fill in. The Queen has followed a lot of the traditions of her father and grandfather. But she has also changed a lot- the use of television and Internet, eliminating debutantes coming out at the palace, changing who can come to garden parties, the household going from aristocrats and military people to more diverse, trained professional people as examples.

William has respect for the traditions of the monarchy but he doesn't have to follow everything that previous monarchs have done. A piper wakes the queen up every morning. It isn't a big deal if William changes this because maybe he doesn't like bagpipes.
  #310  
Old 03-26-2014, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Okaaay. Let's see, QEII is doing it exactly the same way her father did and Prince Charles and the rest of the crew are doing it the same way as dear old Mum and Granddad soooo . . . Do the hokey pokey and turn around but make sure the sword's blunt or it will be a quick change to the middle ages. A nice modern twist, no?
The difference would be that William would be doing them jointly with his wife, not just William alone doing the investitures.
  #311  
Old 03-26-2014, 12:16 AM
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I hadn't realised it took two to do it. I never noticed the DofE beside QEII or DoC beside POW or Vice-Admiral Sir Tim beside The Princess Royal and certainly didn't see Catherine beside Wills when they all did it.

And yes, Prince William has already hosted his first 'Investiture' in October 2013.
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  #312  
Old 03-26-2014, 12:54 AM
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Thing is, that it doesn't, but William apparently wants his wife to be involved, even in things that she shouldn't be involved in. I sincerely hope that as King, William is not going to let the Middletons get too deeply embedded in his life as Sovereign.
  #313  
Old 03-26-2014, 01:15 AM
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I think it would be nice to see King William and Queen Catherine carrying out investitures together. Can be done separately too.

The Middleton family has nothing to do with this.
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  #314  
Old 03-26-2014, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
Thing is, that it doesn't, but William apparently wants his wife to be involved, even in things that she shouldn't be involved in. I sincerely hope that as King, William is not going to let the Middletons get too deeply embedded in his life as Sovereign.
Even now as an adult of 30+ years, I think William is intelligent enough to know that his public life and his private life are two separate things. He has been undergoing grooming for his roles in life since he was at Eton with teas on Sunday across the river with Granny and has watched his grandmother and father all of his life.

The Middleton family will always be important to William as he considers them his family too. I can't for the life of me think of any way that the Middletons could or would become embedded in his role as Prince of Wales or as King. As far as Kate doing investitures, my guess is that should William not be available to do the duty, it'll be Harry he calls on first.

This brings me to a question. Has there ever been investitures done by members of the royal family have have married into it? I don't ever recall the DoE doing it.
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“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy’. They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
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  #315  
Old 03-26-2014, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Even now as an adult of 30+ years, I think William is intelligent enough to know that his public life and his private life are two separate things. He has been undergoing grooming for his roles in life since he was at Eton with teas on Sunday across the river with Granny and has watched his grandmother and father all of his life.

The Middleton family will always be important to William as he considers them his family too. I can't for the life of me think of any way that the Middletons could or would become embedded in his role as Prince of Wales or as King. As far as Kate doing investitures, my guess is that should William not be available to do the duty, it'll be Harry he calls on first.

This brings me to a question. Has there ever been investitures done by members of the royal family have have married into it? I don't ever recall the DoE doing it.
I think the Queen Mother performed occasional investitures when she was Queen Consort.

In a biography I have of Wing Commander Guy Gibson VC (of the Dambusters), it says that when he was awarded his VC at Buckingham Palace, the investiture was performed by the Queen as the King was overseas at the time.

I am not aware of her performing investitures on a regular basis though.

I don't see any need for Catherine to be performing investitures, William and Harry (or George) will be more than capable - but that is because I dislike all the fuss and attention surrounding Catherine rather than for any logical and rational reason.
  #316  
Old 03-26-2014, 04:53 AM
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I think it would be nice to see King William and Queen Catherine carrying out investitures together. Can be done separately too.
I agree. Assuming Catherine gets more involved in charitable life, if members of her patronages were recognised I think it would be appropriate for Catherine to honour them.
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  #317  
Old 03-26-2014, 08:44 AM
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I do not want to sound mean and I am not an anti-Catherine agitator but I personally hope that she does not carry out any investitures any time soon. I say this because, at present, she is the central figure for the media and any Investiture she hosted would, unfortunately, be all about the Duchess of Cambridge/Catherine.

Investitures are important both to the recipient and the reason why each and every one is bestowed. Getting the whole occasion blitzed by Catherine mania would certainly not serve the BRF and, fortunately they seem to know how to time the degree of involvement of royal spouses in such a way as to bring credit to them.
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  #318  
Old 03-26-2014, 09:38 AM
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I do not want to sound mean and I am not an anti-Catherine agitator but I personally hope that she does not carry out any investitures any time soon. I say this because, at present, she is the central figure for the media and any Investiture she hosted would, unfortunately, be all about the Duchess of Cambridge/Catherine.

Investitures are important both to the recipient and the reason why each and every one is bestowed. Getting the whole occasion blitzed by Catherine mania would certainly not serve the BRF and, fortunately they seem to know how to time the degree of involvement of royal spouses in such a way as to bring credit to them.
I don't think any of us are talking about Catherine carrying out Investitures soon. I brought up the idea of when William is King, it would be great if he and Catherine carried out Investiture together or even separately.

Also, everyone will have to get used to the younger royal ladies popularity. The media age may be a little different but younger senior royal women in the royal family has always been popular and gained a great deal of attention.
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  #319  
Old 03-26-2014, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Just for reference, here's a link to the regalia of the Order of the Garter and a bit of its history. I think if William was to do away with the cloak, there's a whole lot of other stuff that would look very much out of place.

Changes were made though in the 20th century: "Up until the middle part of the 20th century, it was customary to wear Tudor style under-dress, consisting of white silk embroidered doublet, breeches, full hose, white doeskin pumps with satin bows and a sword belt with sword, under the robes. Nowadays, morning dress or a lounge suit is worn." Imagine William in that outfit!

Order of the Garter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Thanks for the link but I remember the reaction of Catherine and Harry when William wore the cloak and hat for the first time- (2009?)-and the looks he gave them. At the time, I remember thinking: "If William keeps a list of things he will change as King, this was going to be the first item." He didn't look like he was enjoying himself.
  #320  
Old 03-26-2014, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I don't think any of us are talking about Catherine carrying out Investitures soon. I brought up the idea of when William is King, it would be great if he and Catherine carried out Investiture together or even separately.

Also, everyone will have to get used to the younger royal ladies popularity. The media age may be a little different but younger senior royal women in the royal family has always been popular and gained a great deal of attention.
I thought that the only people that carry out investitures are royal family members, not their spouses. The only current royals I think have done this are HMQ, Charles, Anne and (abroad) Prince Andrew.

Investitures are not carried out in "pairs" either - with spouse standing by.

I dont think that QEQM or Prince PHilip have ever undertaken this role.

Can someone confirm that, or not?

EDIT: only info from Royal.gov

"An Investiture is a very special day when an individual who has been awarded an honour receives their award in person from The Queen, The Prince of Wales or occasionally The Duke of Cambridge or The Princess Royal."
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