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  #101  
Old 06-30-2016, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Only a Romanian could state how good is The Romanian spoken by the Princess.
I agree, and the Romanian the Princess speaks is fine.

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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Not at all. Just a strategy.
That is another word for conspiracy theory, if you're claiming that the Royal Family somehow secretly changed the law of succession to enable female succession, but not actually wishing to ascend the throne again.
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  #102  
Old 07-01-2016, 03:25 AM
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They wanted to be the only Family to represent royalty in Romania but they were aware of the Constitution of 1923.
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  #103  
Old 07-01-2016, 03:31 AM
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As the Royal Family of Romania, it is rather self-evident that they *are* the only Family that represents royalty in Romania.
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  #104  
Old 07-01-2016, 05:06 AM
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The House of Hohenzollern (eldest branch) had two branches: the princely branch at Siegmaringen and the royal branch in Romania after 1866. When the royal branch did not have successors the princely branch succeeded. The same is today with the princely branch succeeding. That's the readon for the attempt of the King's Family to severe relationship with the princely branch. What happened in 1889 is happening again but this time the King's Family is not happy about ut.
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  #105  
Old 07-01-2016, 05:22 AM
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I agree with Cory on that point. In my view when a throne becomes defunct, a glass dome is placed over it. King Michael is exactly King because of that very document, the Constitution, the fundament of his whole royal existence. The King is not happy (anymore) with that very document because he has no male issue. So he takes a pen and invents new rules. That is what I have problems with.

We see it now in the House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies: the feud is complete because the junior pretender (the Duke of Castro) has -like King Michael- taken a pen and invented new rules. The senior pretender (the Duke of Calabria) is most unhappy about that and fights the legitimacy. This is exactly the same and that is why I may be a walking relict and oldfashioned and name me all what you want, but I base it on: "What were the rules when the Kingship was in force?". Period. That is the only hold we have. Otherwise Prince X does this, Prince Y does that and Prince Z makes the mess complete.

This legitimacy is also the reason for my question about Nicholas Medforth-Mills whom became "Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth-Mills": on base of which act, decree, regulation was this name change done and was this official? If yes: in which formal register? In the UK? In Romania? In Switzerland?

On which act, decree, regulation was based that Nicholas became "HRH Prince Nicholas of Romania". Is this an official title? Registered as such? Or is this just an invention to be used by royalists and supporters?

On which act, decree, regulation was based that Nicholas and Princess Irina were scrapped from their titles. Was it just a personal whim of the Head of the House? Scratch! Away title?

All this is exaclty my problem with "the michaelists". They can do anything they want because the whole royal framework seems based on nothing less than the mood of the day and the personal pleasure of the head of the House.
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  #106  
Old 07-01-2016, 05:26 AM
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King Mihai has always been faithful to the Constitution of 1923 and he obviously maintained his relationship with the princely branch of his family until few years ago. Who convinced him to severe that relationship and why?
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  #107  
Old 07-01-2016, 07:05 AM
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Sorry, but why do you think that the King has been convinced by someone to take his decision back in 2011? Couldn't it instead be possible - and more likely - that he alone has come to his decision?

Personally I see the decision to drop the Hohenzollern title just as a logic consequence of the 2007 proposal to change the succession rules and - perhaps - also of the lack of interest shown by the Princes of Hohenzollern in the Romanian succession.
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  #108  
Old 07-01-2016, 08:57 AM
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I do not know of any dialogue between the King and the Princes of Hobenzollern after the request for a title.
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  #109  
Old 07-01-2016, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
Personally I see the decision to drop the Hohenzollern title just as a logic consequence of the 2007 proposal to change the succession rules and - perhaps - also of the lack of interest shown by the Princes of Hohenzollern in the Romanian succession.
I think that is exactly how it should be viewed, and unless someone has strong, personal feelings in one direction or another, this is how it's seen from the outside. The monarchs of most reigning European houses have dropped titles that are no longer relevant for the monarchy, or confusing to the people they are placed to serve, so it's more a process of simplification and with eyes to the future, instead of the glass dome spoken of, which would only work in practice if one wanted to see the monarchy as a museum, and not a living organization.

In the end, some supporters will agree and some will disagree with changes a sovereign proposes, whether it be in a reigning or a defunct royal house, but it is still the task of the head of such a dynasty to make decisions when necessary, to bring the family along with the times we live in, remaining as true as possible to the principles of monarchy and not upsetting too many through the process.

That is why I cannot find fault with any of the decisions of the King, except the one concerning Nicholas, and that one mostly because it was poorly explained.

- the King severs the ties to the Hohenzollern family, not using a subsidiary title anymore. That is logical, following the bruising process of Prince Radus title, the statement from Prince Karl about Romanian succession being a Romanian issue he had no interest in and so on. It is well within monarchical tradition to declare a Royal House exclusively for, of and from the land it serves or wants to serve.

-the King proposes a new line if succession, abolishing salic law. With the King having 5 children, all female, it is no surprise that he proposes this change, to ensure that the Royal Family can continue as pretenders to the throne after his own demise someday. Japan, one of the most traditional monarchies in the world, prepared legislation to enable females to rule, until a prince was finally born a few years ago and put a pin in that process. All other European monarchies allow female succession in one form or another, and if Romania had been a monarchy continuously, the law would had been changed when the King and Queen had no more children, and it was clear that the next generation in the Royal Family were all girls.
The King has never demanded this document be followed. It is his proposal to politicians, and with their continued inclusion of the Custodian in their meetings, discussions and arrangements, it is clear that as far as a republic can, they see her as her fathers representative and heir.

- the Crown Princess, being named Custodian of the Crown by her father, has been working with the government to find a suitable arrangement for the Royal Family in the present-day circumstances, where a restoration is not on the immediate agenda. This arrangement will be given as a law, to establish salaries, housing and resources made available to the Royal Family by the state. Some 'supporters' of the cause of monarchy, claim that this is giving in to the republic, and that no negotiations should take place and no concessions made to the republic, but that the Royal Family should instead demand the restoration of the monarchy immediately. The Crown Princess is fully aware that if she were to listen to this proposal, the monarchy would fail as a cause, not only from a lack of popular support, but equally from a lack of political support, and opposition from the governing class.
If you want to affect change in a democracy without a revolution, you have to either have overwhelming public support, or have the political class behind you.
The monarchy as of today, has neither.
What they do have, is more and more politicians working with them, not seeing them as a threat anymore and being more sympathetic to the cause of monarchy. That is seemingly the best way forward now, and having a formal arrangement gives the Royal Family a platform from which to further the cause of monarchy in Romania. To sabotage that, would be to lose a golden opportunity for actual change, instead of theorizing in closed rooms and at small gatherings of those who already agree.

The monarchy in Romania will never return exactly as it was in 1947.
There is no glass dome over the Russian, Italian, French or Portuguese monarchies either. If any are to be restored, that will happen on a basis of who is best suited to serve as head of state and regal representatives. Who has been active in the country, built relationships with people of power and the population. Who has respect, not only from a title most people don't relate to, but from the body of work they do and have done, from the role(s) they have fulfilled. You need to have a little of both; a title or family history that ties you elegantly into the history of the land and a current-day body of work, attitude and visibility that makes people want to elevate you.
In no democracy today will that happen again based solely on titles or family bonds.

Severing the ties with the Hohenzollerns was a logical step in the Romanian process of monarchy, and the Hohenzollern princes have gone merry on their way with their lives, not shedding tears over a lost throne in Romania they at no point have shown any interest in being offered once again.
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  #110  
Old 07-01-2016, 11:30 AM
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Severing ties with the Hohenzollern was only one step in a strategy to close the chapter of Monarchy in Romania.
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  #111  
Old 08-05-2016, 03:18 AM
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Any Prince of Hohenzollern sent Letter of Condolences to the King for the passing away of Queen Ana?Any of them will attend the Funeral next week?
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