King Carol II (1893-1953), Queen Mother Helen (1896-1982), Wives and Descendants

[Ish]

Paul doesn't have a good claim because his grandparents' marriage was morganatic. However, when you're claiming a defunct throne you don't have to base your claim strictly on the rules of succession used when the throne was in place - you just have to present yourself as the best option to the people behind the restoration.

Paul may not have a dynastic claim, but he is a male-line descendant of Carol II. He also has a son, through which the future of the line can be assured.

Michael does not have a son, so in accordance to the old rules he doesn't have a heir of his body. The individual that he had named his heir, his eldest daughter, is named such in violation of the rules of succession, and doesn't have any children herself. When Michael was asked to designate a heir by the monarchist leaders in Romania it was specifically a male heir, with preference for someone descended from a male-line (and thus not descended from Michael), but an allowance was made for Michael to name his grandson, Nicholas, as his heir, but Michael chose not to.

Purely looking at the established and recognized laws, the heir is Karl Friedrich, Prince of Hohenzollern, who is the closest male-line relation (the common ancestor being Michael's great-grandfather).

 

[Benjamin]

Would any of the Romanian participants of our forum be able to shed some light on the exact meaning of the following article?

It seems that some property was returned to Paul Lambrino illegally.

Curtea de Conturi: Paul Lambrino, împropriet?rit ILEGAL | Romania Libera

 

[USCtrojan]

Paul doesn't have a good claim because his grandparents' marriage was morganatic. However, when you're claiming a defunct throne you don't have to base your claim strictly on the rules of succession used when the throne was in place - you just have to present yourself as the best option to the people behind the restoration.

Paul may not have a dynastic claim, but he is a male-line descendant of Carol II. He also has a son, through which the future of the line can be assured.

Michael does not have a son, so in accordance to the old rules he doesn't have a heir of his body. The individual that he had named his heir, his eldest daughter, is named such in violation of the rules of succession, and doesn't have any children herself. When Michael was asked to designate a heir by the monarchist leaders in Romania it was specifically a male heir, with preference for someone descended from a male-line (and thus not descended from Michael), but an allowance was made for Michael to name his grandson, Nicholas, as his heir, but Michael chose not to.

Purely looking at the established and recognized laws, the heir is Karl Friedrich, Prince of Hohenzollern, who is the closest male-line relation (the common ancestor being Michael's great-grandfather).

Theoretically speaking, didn't he name Nicolae an heir in a way of sorts when he put together the royal decree? Essentially, making Nicolae a prince and styling him a HRH and heir to the throne pretty much does that, just not directly.

I would assume that the hohenzollerns have all bit stepped aside by now and would not jump up and 'claim head of the house or the currently non-existent throne. I would assume that would respect HM being that both thrones at this current time are invalid so to speak. The hohenzollerns have their own throne to worry about and try to restore, so I would assume that would be the case. Hasn't Karl Frederick pretty much said he would not peruse head of the house or the throne upon hM death?

I would think that since the constitution of 1923 is officially invalid, that given the possibility of a restoration down the road -that if Margarita was not given the opportunity to be Queen, that the government would turn to Nicolae being that he is the eldest male grandchild/descendant of HM.

I could be completely insane and wrong, but perhaps Cory or someone else can help me u dear stand some more.

 

[Ish]

Theoretically speaking, didn't he name Nicolae an heir in a way of sorts when he put together the royal decree? Essentially, making Nicolae a prince and styling him a HRH and heir to the throne pretty much does that, just not directly.

I would assume that the hohenzollerns have all bit stepped aside by now and would not jump up and 'claim head of the house or the currently non-existent throne. I would assume that would respect HM being that both thrones at this current time are invalid so to speak. The hohenzollerns have their own throne to worry about and try to restore, so I would assume that would be the case. Hasn't Karl Frederick pretty much said he would not peruse head of the house or the throne upon hM death?

I would think that since the constitution of 1923 is officially invalid, that given the possibility of a restoration down the road -that if Margarita was not given the opportunity to be Queen, that the government would turn to Nicolae being that he is the eldest male grandchild/descendant of HM.

I could be completely insane and wrong, but perhaps Cory or someone else can help me u dear stand some more.

He didn't name Nicolas heir. He was given the opportunity to do so - the monarchists wanted him to name a male heir - but he chose instead to name his eldest daughter, Margarita, as his heir. What he has done to include Nicolas is that he's said that in the event that Margareta doesn't have children (she's 64) then the throne will pass to Elena, and through her to Nicolas. In recognition of the fact that he will one day be the monarch (or pretender), Nicholas is the only one of Michael's grandchildren to hold a princely title.

I doubt Karl Frederick will pursue the head of house status after Michael dies, but he still has a technically better claim than anyone else. Romania operated under Salic law and changes to that have not been approved by the government or accepted by Romania's monarchists, who remain unclear on the issue of Margareta being the heir. The sense of it all that I get is had Michael named Nicolas as the heir there would be more support and less uncertainty in regards to the succession.

But that's just my understanding of it based on what I've read on the Internet. Cory would certainly have a better understanding of it than me.

 

[Cory]

Nobody thinks in Romania that the descendants of Zizi Lambrino have something to do with the future Restoration of Monarchy. After HM the King, HRH the Crown Princess, HRH Princess Elena and HRH Prince Nicolae will continue the Royal Mission.
Lia Triff's husband has all the rights to inherit a part of his grandfather's goods but it is said he had already sold his rights to some of these goods to a company:

Scandalul pe averea Casei Regale. Prin?ul Paul, la Sinteza Zilei. "Am vândut pentru c? a fost sabotaj peste tot"

Cum ?i-a m?rit Remus Truic? domeniul din inima p?durii Snagov

 

[USCtrojan]

President Besescu, Mihai I, and Paul Lambrino

Can someone help me understand the relationships here?

I know that HM and Paul don't have the best relationship. But, I was not aware of anything that would make one assume that there was bad blood if any between president and ex king... Unless I am not aware of serious problems between the two. Don't they simply respect one another?

My main reason for this question is because I learned something new today -president Besescu was a godparent to Paul's son! Are they friends? If so, then this presents an interesting situation does it not?

I know that the president does not have Prince Radu in his favor for some reason....

Can someone just shine some light on all of this?

 

[Cory]

The person who became president is the godfather of the last descendant of Zizi Lambrino and offended different times HM the King .
The Royal Family does not have any kind of relationship or dialog with the person who became president and with the descendants of Zizi Lambrino.

 

[Cory]

Antena3 dedicated quite a lot of time to what Zizi Lambrino's grandson pretends to be his because he wants all the goods that belonged to his grandfather or to other members of the Romanian Royal Family and he seemed to have signed different deals for these goods with different companies:



Paul Lambrino cere statului român o avere uria??. Istoricii demonteaz? preten?iile nepotului nelegitim al lui Carol al II-lea

Paul Lambrino, revendic?ri de peste 500 de milioane de euro: 50 de cl?diri istorice ?i 65.000 ha p?mânt

Mircea Grigore Lambrino's eldest son seem to have quite a lot of financial problems:

Se destram? averea Prin?ul Paul! E dator milioane de euro ?i la un pas de ruin? | Actualitate | Spynews.RO

The late Carol Caraiman did quite a lot of mistakes but not to respect the Constitution of 1923 was one of the greatest.

Princess(than Queen Mother) Helen was very respected by the people but not by her husband.

Antena 3 dedicated quite a lot of time to the many controversies regarding Zizi Lambrino's eldest grandson and his requests of many buildings and lands:

Secven?ial: Cum?trul lui Traian B?sescu, Paul, prin? ?i învârtitor

Many controversies regarding lands asked by Zizi Lambrino's grandson:



RETROCED?RI ILEGALE. Prin?ul Paul ?i prin?esa Lia, audia?i la DNA. Viorel Hrebenciuc, Ilie Sârbu ?i ?eful Romsilva sunt urm?ri?i penal

Moştenitori penali de viţă nobilă. Cum a înhăţat ilegal prinţul Paul pădurea de la Snagov | adevarul.ro

 

[USCtrojan]

I noticed that HM the Queen Mother Helen is not buried at the royal monastery, Curtea de Argeș. Does anyone know if there is a plan to repatriate her from Switzerland?

 

[USCtrojan]

Antena3 dedicated quite a lot of time to what Zizi Lambrino's grandson pretends to be his because he wants all the goods that belonged to his grandfather or to other members of the Romanian Royal Family and he seemed to have signed different deals for these goods with different companies:







Paul Lambrino cere statului român o avere uria??. Istoricii demonteaz? preten?iile nepotului nelegitim al lui Carol al II-lea



Paul Lambrino, revendic?ri de peste 500 de milioane de euro: 50 de cl?diri istorice ?i 65.000 ha p?mânt

And what is the progress on this? He isn't getting access is he?

 

[An Ard Ri]

I noticed that HM the Queen Mother Helen is not buried at the royal monastery, Curtea de Argeș. Does anyone know if there is a plan to repatriate her from Switzerland?

The Queen Mother is buried at the Bois-de-Vaux Cemetery in Lausanne,Switzerland.Maybe in the future her remains will be brought back to Roumania.I believe several members of the Serbia RF were also buried here but were exhumed in 2012 and reburied in Serbia.



http://www.royaltombs.dk/rumunia/r_grob_helenagr.gif

 

[Cory]

For the moment nobody speaks about a possible burial of Queen Mother Elena at Curtea de Arges near her husband.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Apart from May 10th, which was the Monarchy Day in Romania, King Carol II created a new holiday.
The new holiday was Restoration Day.
Restoration Day was celebrated on June 6th.
​

Helen tried to establish a nursery school to improve standards in Romania.
​

 

[USCtrojan]

The late Carol Caraiman did quite a lot of mistakes but not to respect the Constitution of 1923 was one of the greatest.

How was this one of his greatest mistakes?

 

[Cory]

He was a userper and he did not really respect the most democratical Constitution of the Romanian history.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

Here's a nice photo of Carol II and his son Michael. Michael looks like he's wearing an English school uniform, did he perhaps go to school in the UK? I'm asking because his outfit doesn't look like one that a royal child might wear in a photo like this (well to me at least).

 

[USCtrojan]

Here's a nice photo of Carol II and his son Michael. Michael looks like he's wearing an English school uniform, did he perhaps go to school in the UK? I'm asking because his outfit doesn't look like one that a royal child might wear in a photo like this (well to me at least).

Okay! That is just cute!

 

[CyrilVladisla]

In Long to Reign?, A. W. Purdue wrote:

Unlike other monarchs who dispensed with political parties, Carol II formed his own movement, the Front for the Rebirth of the Nation.
​

In 1913 Carol attended the military academy in Potsdam.
He took readily to the military training and even seemed to enjoy the strict Prussian-style routine that prevailed there.
​

 

[Benjamin]

Meanwhile, the Lambrinos have attended a feline function:

International Cat Exhibition

 

[Cory]

Carol II mantained his dialogue with his cousins from Siegmaringen after he left Romania in 1940 and he supported their right to the Romanian Throne in case his son Michael would not have sons.

 

[Benjamin]

Carol II was not exactly a beacon of sound judgment and moral virtues.

Further, King Carol had no authority on succession matters after he abdicated.

Queen Anne wrote that "my only communication with the King's father consisted of two letters: one from him to me, in which he told me I had a very heavy mission, that I must be an exemplary wife and a moral support for my husband, and that I must love him; and the other, from me to him, in which I answered that I would do everything in my power to be a better marriage partner than he had been for the Queen Mother. I must confess that I was very cutting on that occasion."

 

[Cory]

At least he did want to attend his own father's funeral even if he was not allowed to.

 

[Cory]

Carol II was not exactly a beacon of sound judgment and moral virtues.

Further, King Carol had no authority on succession matters after he abdicated.

Queen Anne wrote that "my only communication with the King's father consisted of two letters: one from him to me, in which he told me I had a very heavy mission, that I must be an exemplary wife and a moral support for my husband, and that I must love him; and the other, from me to him, in which I answered that I would do everything in my power to be a better marriage partner than he had been for the Queen Mother. I must confess that I was very cutting on that occasion."

So why his son would have any authority on Succession matters after he also abdicated?

 

[Benjamin]

Carol merely wanted to attend King Ferdinand's funeral as he desired a way to power as soon as possible.

King Carol II was hardly a decent father to either of his sons so it is no wonder Michael did not attend the funeral of Carol.

Princess Margarita and her husband did go to the reburial of her grandfather when his remains were returned to Romania in 2003.

 

[Cory]

At least Carol II had never forgotten his ancestores and he remained loyal to the Hohenzollerns.

 

[Benjamin]

He certainly forget his ancestors when he ditched his duties in order to marry a commoner wife for whom he threw away his succession rights, only to reclaim them when he deposed the young son he had sired by his royal second wife, who he just as quickly cast aside when it suited him.

Carol should have remained loyal to Romania, not to the Hohenzollerns (or Germany).

 

[Cory]

King Michael's sons in law are less commoners than King Carol II's first and third wives?

 

[Benjamin]

The issue at hand was whether King Carol "had never forgotten his ancestores [sic] and ... remained loyal to the Hohenzollerns."

One believes that claim was rebutted, and you are not addressing the rebuttal.

Carol II lived to please and magnify himself.

 

[Cory]

Carol II was a patriot even if he made a lot of mistakes.

 

[CSENYC]

I would assume that the name King Carol II would need to be banished from any discussion of restoration of the monarchy.

Wasn't Carol II a terrible tyrant?