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  #1121  
Old 06-13-2013, 03:06 AM
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Please pardon me if these questions have been answered previously; I have looked but I cannot find them. If they have been, please direct me to the post in question.

Is it, or is it not, the case in Sweden as it is in the UK, that a woman marrying a royal male takes his styles and titles, which is how Kate is HRH The Princess William, Duchess of Cambridge, etc., and Camilla is HRH The Princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay, etc. (even though she does not use the Princess of Wales title)? Neither lady has any titles in her own right, only because of her marriage. Kate is not Princess Catherine regardless of what the press and public call her.

Or is the concept of a morganatic marriage alive and well in Sweden? Would the people be surprised if Sofia and CP married and she was known merely as the Duchess of Värmland? Would she automatically assume CP's style and title on marriage or would the King have to give a positive direction before she acquired any royal style or title? If it would be automatic, what would those styles and titles be?
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  #1122  
Old 06-13-2013, 04:38 AM
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It's merely speculation but HM the King is the final arbiter of all royal titles (w/out government approval). Surely he will take into consideration the public feeling but look at the past:

1.) HM granted HRH princess Lillian HRH, PRINCESS OF Sweden & and Duchess of Halland. I'm sure his uncles fussed about that one

2.) when Princess Christina married in 1974, after her grandfather's death HM didn't allow her to retain her HRH, nor her titles like he did with HRH princess Madeline.

So it all comes down to What HIS MAJESTY WANTS TO DO.
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  #1123  
Old 06-13-2013, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
Please pardon me if these questions have been answered previously; I have looked but I cannot find them. If they have been, please direct me to the post in question.

Is it, or is it not, the case in Sweden as it is in the UK, that a woman marrying a royal male takes his styles and titles, which is how Kate is HRH The Princess William, Duchess of Cambridge, etc., and Camilla is HRH The Princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay, etc. (even though she does not use the Princess of Wales title)? Neither lady has any titles in her own right, only because of her marriage. Kate is not Princess Catherine regardless of what the press and public call her.

Or is the concept of a morganatic marriage alive and well in Sweden? Would the people be surprised if Sofia and CP married and she was known merely as the Duchess of Värmland? Would she automatically assume CP's style and title on marriage or would the King have to give a positive direction before she acquired any royal style or title? If it would be automatic, what would those styles and titles be?
In the past, if a prince married a commoner, he lost his title. This happened to all of Carl Gustaf's paternal uncles except Prince Bertil who got his nephew's permission to marry. You could argue that the King gave Bertil's wife Lillian the Princess title so the same should apply to Carl Philip (and Madeleine). On the other hand, it could have been an expression of gratitude as Bertil had remained single for 30 odd years in case Gustaf Adolf died before Carl Gustaf was old enough to take up the duties of King and gave up the chance of having children.

For the King's own children, he decided what titles to give/offer their spouses. I guess that's the only precedent there is. Swedish posters can correct me if I'm wrong.
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  #1124  
Old 06-13-2013, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Esmerelda View Post
In the past, if a prince married a commoner, he lost his title. This happened to all of Carl Gustaf's paternal uncles except Prince Bertil who got his nephew's permission to marry. You could argue that the King gave Bertil's wife Lillian the Princess title so the same should apply to Carl Philip (and Madeleine). On the other hand, it could have been an expression of gratitude as Bertil had remained single for 30 odd years in case Gustaf Adolf died before Carl Gustaf was old enough to take up the duties of King and gave up the chance of having children.

For the King's own children, he decided what titles to give/offer their spouses. I guess that's the only precedent there is. Swedish posters can correct me if I'm wrong.
You're correct, as far as I know. The king alone decides about titles.

My personal guess is that when Carl Philp marries Sofia, she will become duchess of Värmland, not princess. I have two reasons to assume this. The first one is that Jonas Bergström "only" should have been duke of Hälsingland and Gästrikland when he married Madeleine. That is a strong indication. It's a different thing with Daniel. He's married to the heir.

The second reason is that the royal family is very aware of Sofias past, and that lots of poeple don't like the idea of her becoming a member of the royal family. Making her duchess, not princess, partly solves the PR-problem. And they do have precedense (or however it's spelled), since Jonas wasn't going to be prince.
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  #1125  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:08 AM
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Hopefully Sofia won't try to press the issue and will be content. She's lucky just to get the ring, the title princess would be too much.
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  #1126  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:43 AM
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Thank you, Esmerelda & Xenobia.
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  #1127  
Old 06-13-2013, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Given how the Swedes are always on about equality it would be hard for the court to explain why a Swedish male commoner married a Swedish princess and became HRH Prince and Duke, but a Swedish female commoner who marries a Swedish prince should not also share his rank and titles. Sounds kind of sexist in the land of equality for all. With Chris they got away with it by saying he is a non Swede and he is a principle in a business, can't use the same reasoning for Sofia.
But a "Swedish male commoner married to a Swedish princess" (Jonas) would not have become HRH Prince. It would be sexist and unequal if Sofia did.
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  #1128  
Old 06-13-2013, 11:19 AM
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Maddy's wedding is the first time I have ever been exposed to Sofia, so my comments are based solely upon the pictures I saw from there, so please don't kill me, these are just my impressions of her. I don't think she is very pretty, and Carl Philip is such a good looking man, I don't understand the attraction to her, she seems very self important and loved having her picture taken, I guess I didn't like the smug look on her face.
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  #1129  
Old 06-13-2013, 12:38 PM
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Norwegian royal expert Kjell Arne Totland about Carl Philip and Sofia
Carl Philip og Sofia – neste par ut ! Kongebloggen - Kjell Arne Totland
Translation
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  #1130  
Old 06-13-2013, 12:45 PM
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I really do think there's something in the air with Prince Carl Philip & Sofia. We might get some official news this year.
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  #1131  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebafan81 View Post
Maddy's wedding is the first time I have ever been exposed to Sofia, so my comments are based solely upon the pictures I saw from there, so please don't kill me, these are just my impressions of her. I don't think she is very pretty, and Carl Philip is such a good looking man, I don't understand the attraction to her, she seems very self important and loved having her picture taken, I guess I didn't like the smug look on her face.
Sofia''s background is less than royal. If you have followed them for a while, you will notice that her style, clothing, behavior is changing and improving. I really don't know much about her birth family, or why she was allowed to model, but she does seem to be trying to learn a new role. I wish them well.
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  #1132  
Old 06-14-2013, 10:38 AM
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The King had to talk Madde and Chris into televising their wedding. I'm guessing that won't be an issue if this wedding occurs? Heck, We might even get to see the dinner and first dance as well!! LOL

There's something that makes me go "hmmmm" every time I see her...
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  #1133  
Old 06-14-2013, 01:08 PM
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Well, I am glad that we were allowed to watch P.Madeleine´s spectacular wedding and of course I also enjoyed watching the romantic wedding of her sister CP Victoria, it was absolutely magnificent & so emotional that I even shed a few tears (which is very rare for me)
I hope that (supposed it happens) we will get to see the wedding of Carl-Philip and Sofia and I will definitely watch it, the Swedish know how to celebrate a beautiful wedding!

The first dance should be a Waltz,I really hope that when they get married they chose a classic-elegant dress and a traditional ceremony. I am very modern-pragmatic in my thinking, but for a wedding I prefer an old-fashioned approach,it is a very important event and should not be celebrated like a birthday party - that´s just the way I see it... Of course,everyone should do as they wish and I am sure that Sofia has a lot of ideas and plans already and knows what she wants.
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  #1134  
Old 06-14-2013, 05:48 PM
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I feel that the fact Sofia was in that banns photo with the family is the clincher, and is a clear indication that they are unofficially engaged. I think her being in that photo is more significant than her attending Madeleine's wedding. And I think the photo of her boating with the king and queen is confirmation she is accepted.
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  #1135  
Old 06-14-2013, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Rebafan81 View Post
I don't think she is very pretty, and Carl Philip is such a good looking man, I don't understand the attraction to her, she seems very self important and loved having her picture taken, I guess I didn't like the smug look on her face.
Rebafan, I promise I won't rip your head off ! Keeping in mind that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that and . judging as a woman I think that the Word 'pretty' about covers SH, contrary to being 'stunningly beautiful'. Or maybe you could say that she has a 'cute' face?
I too noticed the posing for the photographers, and I don't know what to make of it. She's damned if she doesn't smile at them and she's damned if she does! IMO she's should be a bit more low profile until her Prince officially is in the bag! I get the impression that Sofia is facing an uphill struggle getting accepted by many Swedes and anything which could be mistaken for gloating probably won't endear her to them.

viv
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  #1136  
Old 06-14-2013, 06:33 PM
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Can't be totally easy for Sofia when there are people judging her because of what they've read about her in the tabloids.

As for smiling for the camera's- It's what she suppose to do. Who in their right mind would want a bad picture of themselves on magazines and on the net. I would be doing the samething, if in her position. I would make sure all my teeth is seen and try to get my pictures taken on my good side. That's just me though.
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  #1137  
Old 06-15-2013, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Can't be totally easy for Sofia when there are people judging her because of what they've read about her in the tabloids.

As for smiling for the camera's- It's what she suppose to do. Who in their right mind would want a bad picture of themselves on magazines and on the net. I would be doing the samething, if in her position. I would make sure all my teeth is seen and try to get my pictures taken on my good side. That's just me though.
But Sofia is acting so strikingly different than for example the Magnuson brothers or the relatives of the Queen, she is always searching the camera.
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Expressen and Aftonbladet have been very kind to Sofia. It will be interesting to see what happens if they are getting engaged, will the swedish media publish all the photos of Sofia.
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  #1138  
Old 06-15-2013, 02:30 AM
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But Sofia is acting so strikingly different than for example the Magnuson brothers or the relatives of the Queen, she is always searching the camera.

To be honest, I was rather sceptic about Sofia and her intentions when I heard about her past and all her efforts to become famous by making sexy pictures, taking part in a tacky tv show etc. did not make it easy for me to take her seriously. I thought she was an attention-seeker who wishes to be in the spotlight and who is just craving for celebrity stardom like other famous party-girls...
However, as I have seen that she seems to be accepted by Queen Silvia, Carl-Philips sisters and most of the Swedish do not seem to be worried about her, I guess she can´t be that bad. She said in a an interview that her mother encouraged to get the erotic pictures and this really made me think that she probably grew up in the wrong surrounding that has thought her some questionable values. I do not know a woman who would encourage her daughter to get sexy pictures taken, every mother I know would love her daughter to study,get a well-paid job and have a respectable private life.
Some people are surrounded by the wrong people & bad influences, so they make some decisions that are not smart.
Seeing that she likes to look at the camera could also mean that she wants to make a good impression and that she believes "looking good for the camera" is the most important thing for a royal,it does not necessarily have to be a negative sign. Letting her be in official pictures & attending important royal events is a proof that the Royal family seems to accept her, they are open-minded and obviously they have no problem with Sofia Helqvist.
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  #1139  
Old 06-15-2013, 02:56 AM
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She said in a an interview that her mother encouraged to get the erotic pictures and this really made me think that she probably grew up in the wrong surrounding that has thought her some questionable values.
Sofia has two sisters who have the same mother, either of them have posed at erotic photos. Sofia's younger sister Sara is doing a doctoral thesis at the Department of Psychology at Stockholm University. Older sister Lina is a filosofie kandidat (Bachelor of Arts) at Urban and Regional Planning from Stockholm University.
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  #1140  
Old 06-15-2013, 03:09 AM
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Sofia has two sisters who have the same mother, either of them have posed at erotic photos. Sofia's younger sister Sara is doing a doctoral thesis at the Department of Psychology at Stockholm University. Older sister Lina is a filosofie kandidat (Bachelor of Arts) at Urban and Regional Planning from Stockholm University.
Well,I have read this in a tabloid,so we can´t take it serious,-they often write crap...
It is good to know that her sisters are following an ambitious career path
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