Press Reports about Carl Philip and Sofia Hellqvist, Part 2: April 2012 - June 2014

[Anne2]

I wonder what her own aspirations are. Does she want to be a full member of the royal family and "working royal" or could she be satisfied with staying in the shadow?? I don't see her as a discreet person, and have the feeling that when she wants something, she will try to get it. She probably feels comfortable under the spotlights, I just cannolt see her as house wife! I wonder what she is curretnly doing, just enjoy living in some idleness. I have read earlier comments here that her involvement in the playground project, does not significantly occupy her. Following courses? that would be known unless totally privately. as a matter of fact what is her education background?? Personally I make a difference between activities as a model, and featuring in bad taste films, not to say porno movies.
If I remember well prince Felipe of Spain also had a fashion model (for underwear articles?) girl friend. King and Queen of Spain did not accept her.
My feeling is however that the royal family wants to keep CP as a working royal, to support V&D eventually.

 

[LadyFinn]

Project Playground is involved with a big charity ball organized by Ambrosius Lundensis on 15th September in Lund. Profits from the event's total revenue will go to Project Playground and they will present their work during the evening. I'm quite sure that Sofia will be there herself, and obviously Carl Philip too (if he hasn't any more important royal duties), since he is a member of the board of Project Playground.
Balen

 

[Charlotte_Aster]

Of course, she may never be Princess Sofia but "merely" Duchess of Värmland, as per example of the title Jonas would have received had he not been cheating on his fiancée. Swedish RF is rather keen on gender equality after all.
Anne2, if she were taking courses, we probably would have heard about it as a part of the image polishing that has been going around for some time.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Considering the fact that the photos which are the most pornographic known of her so far were taken briefly before Miss Hellqvist met Prince Carl Philip (not the ‘Miss Slitz’ snake pics) and thus almost a decade after the mistakes of youth, it took her a rather long time to fall out of the ‘wrong crowd’ again.
Her teenage pics are a bit disturbing as she looks younger than sixteen, and with their suggestive imagery they actually might qualify as children soft porn. Therefore I can understand why LadyFinn wonders how any parent could have been comfortable with them.
More disturbing at present IMHO is something like a joint tabloid interview about an early morning drunken brawl which offers details contradicted by other eye witnesses; it’s the kind of PR effort to be expected from the fame-hungry and/or former reality TV show contestants, but not from Royals or royal partners.
As for comparisons with other royal partners from the past, the striving for celebrity status as the only goal and occupation in life and behaving accordingly is exactly the major - and for me, worrying - difference between her and them.

Thanks for pointing out the facts once again. Sofia is not just a 'glamour model' but has even gone to pornographic ends to become famous. To me, she is 'look at me' of the worst kind, without and of course with her best tool as yet, CP. Once 'look at me', always 'look at me'. With CP Sofia is getting the kind audience she was aiming for from the beginning. I for once dont buy the Cinderella sugar story, Sofia is way out of her depth re what she is desperately trying to get into. The apparent 'transformation' from 'fun' to 'serious' is nothing more than a fake attempt to court the media. Not that my opinion of CP is any better. For me its a case of 'they deserve each other'. To think that Sofia is wife or even princess material says a lot about him.

And there is not even a remote basis on which Sofia could be compared to other CPs or Queen Silvia (as a cheap lookalike version).

 

[Lumutqueen]

To think that Sofia is wife or even princess material says a lot about him.

Have you heard of that thing, oooo what's it called, oh yeah LOVE? Nobody should be discriminated in anyway because they happened to fall in love with someone other people don't like. I agree that Sofia is not Princess material, but I don't see why her past should completely exclude her from ever marrying anyone. Or is she only allowed to marry another person who's posed with a snake? Jeez.

 

[Meraude]

I agree that Sofia is not Princess material, but I don't see why her past should completely exclude her from ever marrying anyone. Or is she only allowed to marry another person who's posed with a snake? Jeez.

I wouldn't have any objections for Sofia marrying any Swedish celebrity and have her place in the sun (or rather in the media spotlight), there are several who I can think of that would make a perfect partner for her. The issue for me is that if she marries Carl Philip they will be seen as representatives for Sweden in and outside Sweden and I don't find that her image in the media is the kind I want to see in an official representative for Sweden. If Carl Philip decides to become a private citizen and marry Sofia it would be perfect for me, but I doubt that will happen.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Have you heard of that thing, oooo what's it called, oh yeah LOVE? Nobody should be discriminated in anyway because they happened to fall in love with someone other people don't like.

We are talking about royalty, representatives of a country, paid to do so by the taxpayer, and not about private people. Even in these days, suitability is a big issue. Would William Wales have been allowed to marry a girl like Sofia, just because he is in love with her? Certainly not. What saves CP is that he is not the heir. Will it encourage the Swedes to continue to pay for representatives of this kind in the future, I highly doubt it.

CP comes across as spoilt & stubborn, used to doing & getting what he wants. He can marry Sofia and be happy with her but how about doing it as private citizen.

 

[NGalitzine]

Not that long ago people would have said similar things about royalty marrying an actress, even an Academy award winning one, since many considered acting being little better than prostitution and actresses being merely rich white trash. Times change, people move on.

 

[Boris]

Not that long ago people would have said similar things about royalty marrying an actress, even an Academy award winning one, since many considered acting being little better than prostitution and actresses being merely rich white trash. Times change, people move on.

From a historical point of view, you are talking about North American prejudices towards actors from before World War I and thus about a time which was a century ago.
Regarding Grace Kelly whom you are referring to but not naming, her family was actually the opposite of what could be labeled 'white trash', and the dowry coming from her father was gladly accepted by her groom as a money injection urgently needed for Monaco at that point.
In contrast to Academy Award winning actresses, Sofia Hellqvist has, at close to thirty, not shown any kind of remarkable talent, quality or desire for education which would have earned her any kind legitimate career, profession or occupation.
I find that remarkable for all the wrong reasons as there are few less dreary traits than a strong ambition to become famous which isn't matched by equally strong talent.

 

[NGalitzine]

From a historical point of view, you are talking about North American prejudices towards actors from before World War I and thus about a time which was a century ago.
Regarding Grace Kelly whom you are referring to but not naming, her family was actually the opposite of what could be labeled 'white trash', and the dowry coming from her father was gladly accepted by her groom as a money injection urgently needed for Monaco at that point.
In contrast to Academy Award winning actresses, Sofia Hellqvist has, at close to thirty, not shown any kind of remarkable talent, quality or desire for education which would have earned her any kind legitimate career, profession or occupation.
I find that remarkable for all the wrong reasons as there are few less dreary traits than a strong ambition to become famous which isn't matched by equally strong talent.

Actually the prejudice against actors lasted much longer than WWI in the US. Rainier himself said the Monagasques view of actresses did not extend much farther than Mae West, it did not matter if they came from a wealthy family or not it was their profession that determined public perception. It took time for people to accept her as a princess and forget her past.

 

[Charlotte_Aster]

Are we seriously comparing Princess Grace and Sofia Hellquivist now? A person who was the complete embodiment of class and another who is that of lack of it...

 

[NGalitzine]

No, merely pointing out that attitudes and opinions change over time.

 

[EIIR]

Didin't Rainier ban Grace's films from being shown in Monaco after he married her? Which suggests that her career was something her husband wasn't particularly comfortable with.

The idea of someone being 'princess material' is intriguing to me. Would Mette Marit have been considered 'princess material'? Involved in illegal drug taking, living with a man who was convicted of drugs offenses, and mother to a child born out of wedlock. Yet she's shown herself to be a very competent CP. What about Letizia? A divorced TV journalist who is surely far too intelligent and well-qualified to spend her life saying nothing while having her photo taken? Or Diana? Admittedly the daughter of an Earl, but also a not too bright teenager with almost no life experience, who couldn't pass a single O-Level despite sitting them TWICE?

Or, for that matter, do people here consider Carl Philip 'prince material'? He's a prince because he happened to be born to the King and Queen of Sweden, not because he met some sort of checklist of princely behaviours.

Monarchy is not a meritocracy. If it was a matter of society or populations deciding who had demonstrated that they were 'King or Queen material', how many of the currently reigning monarchs would be in their positions? Like it or not, the main players within a royal family don't get there because they 'deserve' to. If people have difficulty with that, then they have difficulty with the whole concept of hereditary monarchy itself.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

While those who are born into royalty are there, its a different thing for the spouses they marry. Edward VIII resigned because the establishment didnt accept his unsuitable wife. And still these days its not possible to marry for love only for the heir of the throne. Again - William wouldnt have been allowed to marry a girl with Sofia's past.

CP may be allowed to, because he is not heir. But still this decision might play a part in a possible downfall of monarchy. I dont want to repeat Boris's posts but Sofia is a girl who has had only one goal in her life, being famous at all cost, even if it means to have pornographic photos taken. Dating a prince finally provides the fame and its amazing to see how fast Sofia can switch from nude model to charity lady and each job descriptions. Wanna be famous - take sleazy pics, if necessary and try to hang onto somebody famous - tick. Next step, wanna be a princess, jump on the charity bandwaggon - tick.

I only wonder what happens when the ring is finally there because the respect of the the establishment will never come, despite all possible titles. I see a swedish soap opera szenario in the making.

 

[Muhler]

I've followed the discussion here on and off and when I look at the dilemma from my own point of view it really becomes very simple.

If they love each other and feel they are right for each other, by all means marry. I'll applaud them all the way to the altar and back.

However, when asking myself these two questions:

Do I find the constellation Carl Phillip and Sofia to be appropriate official representatives for my country? The answer is no.

Do I think Carl Phillip and Sofia would make an acceptable Regent Couple, should a terrible accident occour? The answer is no.

Things you do throughout your life, also in your early youth have consequences, sorry. That's life.

Monarchies are in their very nature conservative institutions adhering to conservative and traditional values.
Having a princess who has repeatedly, not just once, repeatedly, posed in the buff is a big minus.
Having a princess who has appeared in reality shows is also a big minus.

However, I would be willing to look away from her topless photos and even her antics in reality shows, if she had accomplished something significant. If she was really extraordinary.
Is she a doctor? Has she saved lives? Is she doing cancer research? Has she worked in refugee camps? Has she served in Afghanistan? Something on that level, preferably higher.
No, she has been a less than fully dressed model a few times, - not even a professional, highly paid nude model.
She has appeared in shows that are usually defined with having a cast of uninteresting egomaniacs.
And then she has done.....?

I do not find Sofia to be a good rolemodel. Showing children and youths that you by flaunting your t*ts and appearing in reality shows you can end up becoming a princess, does not conform to the values I believe a monarchy should represent. In that respect I'm pretty conservative.

On top of having thrashed Sofia above, I must add that Carl Phillip's dedication and workload in regards to his status and his country doesn't impress me either. If Carl Phillip was an extraordinary and dedicated man, I might be willing to accept that Sofia is THE woman in his life and give them a chance. But he doesn't impress me.

So to sum up. If they want to, marry. But Carl Phillip should give up his royal status at the same time.

 

[Madame Royale]

Could he lose his 'HRH' and the designation 'of Sweden' and just remain Prince Carl Philip?

 

[An Ard Ri]

Could he lose his 'HRH' and the designation 'of Sweden' and just remain Prince Carl Philip?

Its possible,it happened to 3 of the King's sisters,they all lost the 'HRH' style but retained 'Princess X' but just not of Sweden.

 

[Meraude]

Its possible,it happened to 3 of the King's sisters,they all lost the 'HRH' style but retained 'Princess X' but just not of Sweden.

The king's three sisters have the title of "princess" as a courtesy title.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The king's three sisters have the title of "princess" as a courtesy title.

Indeed,thanks I meant to include that.

 

[Frelinghighness]

I've followed the discussion here on and off and when I look at the dilemma from my own point of view it really becomes very simple.

If they love each other and feel they are right for each other, by all means marry. I'll applaud them all the way to the altar and back.

However, when asking myself these two questions:

Do I find the constellation Carl Phillip and Sofia to be appropriate official representatives for my country? The answer is no.

Do I think Carl Phillip and Sofia would make an acceptable Regent Couple, should a terrible accident occour? The answer is no.

Things you do throughout your life, also in your early youth have consequences, sorry. That's life.

Monarchies are in their very nature conservative institutions adhering to conservative and traditional values.
Having a princess who has repeatedly, not just once, repeatedly, posed in the buff is a big minus.
Having a princess who has appeared in reality shows is also a big minus.

However, I would be willing to look away from her topless photos and even her antics in reality shows, if she had accomplished something significant. If she was really extraordinary.
Is she a doctor? Has she saved lives? Is she doing cancer research? Has she worked in refugee camps? Has she served in Afghanistan? Something on that level, preferably higher.
No, she has been a less than fully dressed model a few times, - not even a professional, highly paid nude model.
She has appeared in shows that are usually defined with having a cast of uninteresting egomaniacs.
And then she has done.....?

I do not find Sofia to be a good rolemodel. Showing children and youths that you by flaunting your t*ts and appearing in reality shows you can end up becoming a princess, does not conform to the values I believe a monarchy should represent. In that respect I'm pretty conservative.

On top of having thrashed Sofia above, I must add that Carl Phillip's dedication and workload in regards to his status and his country doesn't impress me either. If Carl Phillip was an extraordinary and dedicated man, I might be willing to accept that Sofia is THE woman in his life and give them a chance. But he doesn't impress me.

So to sum up. If they want to, marry. But Carl Phillip should give up his royal status at the same time.

ITA with all of your points and don't believe you have "thrashed" anyone.
They are judged in a different, more limited context, than most mortals.
And, I like the way you allow for mistakes, if they are ameliorated. The only hope I have is remembering the Kings's sisters, and how they are truly sidelined.
Between the reports on the King, and CP, I worry for the future of this monarchy.

 

[Madame Royale]

The king's three sisters have the title of "princess" as a courtesy title.

Then could not Carl Philip be subject to the very same courtesy?

The removal of his HRH, the designation 'of Sweden' and his place in line to the throne as well as that of his descendants, should he have any.

* HRH Prince Carl Philip of Sweden, Duke of Värmland

to

* Prince Carl Philip, Duke of Värmland


OR

Could it be at all possible to maintain the title of Duke of Värmland, having had all other royal titles revoked, and being granted the style of 'Excellency' (or Swedish equivilant).


* HRH Prince Carl Philip of Sweden, Duke of Värmland

to

* His Excellency The Duke of Värmland

 

[Meraude]

Then could not Carl Philip be subject to the very same courtesy?

The removal of his HRH, the designation 'of Sweden' and his place in line to the throne as well as that of his descendants, should he have any.

* HRH Prince Carl Philip of Sweden, Duke of Värmland

to

* Prince Carl Philip, Duke of Värmland


OR

Could it be at all possible to maintain the title of Duke of Värmland, having had all other royal titles revoked, and being granted the style of 'Excellency' (or Swedish equivilant).


* HRH Prince Carl Philip of Sweden, Duke of Värmland

to

* His Excellency The Duke of Värmland

There is a difference between the king's sisters and their loss of HRH as they were not in line in the Swedish succession at the time (it's only after 1980 that females are in line in the Swedish order of succession). If Carl Philip was to loose his HRH and place in the succession, the comparison would have to be made with the king's uncles (Sigvard, Carl Johan and their cousin Lennart) who lost their titles and place in the succession and became simply Mr. Bernadotte (until they were given the title of count by the grand-duchess of Luxembourg). I'm not sure that allowing Carl Philip the courtesy title of prince while not being HRH would be a good idea, even if there are no longer any living former princes of Sweden, I don't know how much old hurt feelings about this there is in the extended royal family.

The Swedish version of His Excellency is not in use in Sweden for Swedish citizens (only used for foreign dignitaries). Since 1975 the only person with that title in Swedish is the Marshall of the Realm, the highest official in the Swedish court.

As for having the title of a non-royal duke of Värmland, it could be an alternative for as long as Carl Philip lives, but it would most likely not be given to any future children, and there could possibly be the same problems as with him having the courtesy title of prince, regarding the fact that his father's uncles lost their ducal tiles as well as the HRH.

Perhaps the best alternative would be that Carl Philip was to become Mr. Carl Philip Bernadotte (or take his spouse's surname and become Carl Philip Hellqvist) and hope that the grand-duke of Luxembourg will give him a title.

 

[NGalitzine]

If CP were to decide that he does wish to marry Sofia or anyone else won't the Swedish government have to also give their approval to his marriage and likely also have some input regarding titles to be used by him, his wife and any future children.
In the 21st century I cannot see the Grand Duke of Luxembourg or any other monarch giving a title to a foreign citizen even if they are distantly related to the monarch.

 

[Madame Royale]

There is a difference between the king's sisters and their loss of HRH as they were not in line in the Swedish succession at the time (it's only after 1980 that females are in line in the Swedish order of succession). If Carl Philip was to loose his HRH and place in the succession, the comparison would have to be made with the king's uncles (Sigvard, Carl Johan and their cousin Lennart) who lost their titles and place in the succession and became simply Mr. Bernadotte (until they were given the title of count by the grand-duchess of Luxembourg). I'm not sure that allowing Carl Philip the courtesy title of prince while not being HRH would be a good idea, even if there are no longer any living former princes of Sweden, I don't know how much old hurt feelings about this there is in the extended royal family.

The Swedish version of His Excellency is not in use in Sweden for Swedish citizens (only used for foreign dignitaries). Since 1975 the only person with that title in Swedish is the Marshall of the Realm, the highest official in the Swedish court.

As for having the title of a non-royal duke of Värmland, it could be an alternative for as long as Carl Philip lives, but it would most likely not be given to any future children, and there could possibly be the same problems as with him having the courtesy title of prince, regarding the fact that his father's uncles lost their ducal tiles as well as the HRH.

Perhaps the best alternative would be that Carl Philip was to become Mr. Carl Philip Bernadotte (or take his spouse's surname and become Carl Philip Hellqvist) and hope that the grand-duke of Luxembourg will give him a title.

From an outsiders stand point, I see no reason as to why Carl Philip could not maintain his Ducal title. That it would not be inherited by any offspring is not an issue as ducal titles appointed to Prince's of Sweden are not inherited in any case.

I figured that that way Sofia could also hold some degree soietal distinction (being a Duchess) but not a Princess of Sweden which would perhaps ease the minds of some at least.

 

[Breffney]

I'm lost .....why on earth would the Grand Duke of Luxembourg give him and, by default, Sofia (as his wife) a title. ?

Somehow I don't think that Sofia would be deemed suitable material by Henri. He was slow enough to give his own daughter-in-law and grandsons a title and royal recognition.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

There is a difference between the king's sisters and their loss of HRH as they were not in line in the Swedish succession at the time (it's only after 1980 that females are in line in the Swedish order of succession). If Carl Philip was to loose his HRH and place in the succession, the comparison would have to be made with the king's uncles (Sigvard, Carl Johan and their cousin Lennart) who lost their titles and place in the succession and became simply Mr. Bernadotte (until they were given the title of count by the grand-duchess of Luxembourg). I'm not sure that allowing Carl Philip the courtesy title of prince while not being HRH would be a good idea, even if there are no longer any living former princes of Sweden, I don't know how much old hurt feelings about this there is in the extended royal family.

The Swedish version of His Excellency is not in use in Sweden for Swedish citizens (only used for foreign dignitaries). Since 1975 the only person with that title in Swedish is the Marshall of the Realm, the highest official in the Swedish court.

As for having the title of a non-royal duke of Värmland, it could be an alternative for as long as Carl Philip lives, but it would most likely not be given to any future children, and there could possibly be the same problems as with him having the courtesy title of prince, regarding the fact that his father's uncles lost their ducal tiles as well as the HRH.

Perhaps the best alternative would be that Carl Philip was to become Mr. Carl Philip Bernadotte (or take his spouse's surname and become Carl Philip Hellqvist) and hope that the grand-duke of Luxembourg will give him a title.

Thanks Meraude, great info!

But why would GD Henri or eventually Guillaume give Carl-Philip a title...I know that they are very distantly related but still....?

 

[An Ard Ri]

I'm lost .....why on earth would the Grand Duke of Luxembourg give him and, by default, Sofia (as his wife) a title. ?

Somehow I don't think that Sofia would be deemed suitable material by Henri. He was slow enough to give his own daughter-in-law and grandsons a title and royal recognition.

Its happened in the past when Swedish Prince's lost their Royal titles and styles as the result of an 'unequal' marriage.

Count of Wisborg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[wok_kym]

why would the grand duke of luxemburg give carl philip a title?

I dont known which would be worst for the SRF, the prince marries an unsuitable woman (and with unsuitable i mean i wouldnt want my very commoner brother to marry her) or the king to deny him the permission to marry??
i think the only way would be for the prince to give up the title if he wants to marry Sofia.

 

[Meraude]

From an outsiders stand point, I see no reason as to why Carl Philip could not maintain his Ducal title. That it would not be inherited by any offspring is not an issue as ducal titles appointed to Prince's of Sweden are not inherited in any case.

In Sweden the ducal title have been exclusive to (male) members of the royal family until recently (1980) and thus there are no tradition of non-royal dukes as there are in other countries in Sweden (there are one ducal family in Sweden, D'Otrante, and their title is French), and I think there would be a lot of criticism from various parts of the Swedish society, both political and others, if Carl Philip was to keep his ducal title and no longer being seen as a member of the SRF, especially as his popularity isn't very high.

 

[An Ard Ri]

why would the grand duke of luxemburg give carl philip a title?

I dont known which would be worst for the SRF, the prince marries an unsuitable woman (and with unsuitable i mean i wouldnt want my very commoner brother to marry her) or the king to deny him the permission to marry??
i think the only way would be for the prince to give up the title if he wants to marry Sofia.

See link in post above