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I wonder if in the future Prince Nikolai's wife and Prince Felix's wife will have the title of Princess?
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I wonder if in the future Prince Nikolai's wife and Prince Felix's wife will have the title of Princess?
I wonder if in the future Prince Nikolai's wife and Prince Felix's wife will have the title of Princess?
Technically they are entitled to get the title of princess, and so are any children.
However that is up to the monarch.
So it is very likely that Nikolai and Felix - and Henrik, will take the title of say Count de Montepezat and drop their princely title upon marriage. So we avoid ending up having flocks of royals roaming streets.
It is established convention that the wife and unmarried children of a prince with a place in the order of succession have the title princess or prince, but to the best of my knowledge it is not formalized in statute law.
I am not sure if Denmark has developed common law in regards to royal titles, as in the UK. It seems not to be the case, as it apparently took the Queen some time to decide that Marie Cavallier would take the title of princess upon marriage. Quoting from a summary of Prince Joachim and Marie Cavallier's press conference held in 2007:
Queen Margrethe has only recently decided Marie will have the title of princess. Joachim said this was not his decision to make, but another's (meaning the Queen).
https://danishroyalwatchers.blogspot.com/2007/10/joachim-marie-press-conference.html
Yes, the only title the monarch has no control over, is the title of Crown Prince/ss, because the person holding that title has a specific status mention in the Law of Succession and in the Constitution.
The title of Crown Prince/ss is not mentioned in the Law of Succession or in the Constitution, but the term tronfølgeren (heir to the throne) is mentioned in Art. 7 of the Constitution.
https://www.ft.dk/da/dokumenter/bes...likationer/grundloven/danmarks-riges-grundlov
https://www.retsinformation.dk/eli/lta/1953/169
Would it not be possible for Countess Athena of Monpezat not to take her husbands name and simply keep her maiden name.
Here is a link to the text of the press release of April 30 2008, which Somebody's source posted in image form.
Pressemeddelelse
Amalienborg, den 30. april 2008
Hendes Majestæt Dronningen har besluttet, at Hans Kongelige Højhed Kronprinsen samt Hans Kongelige Højhed Prins Joachim tillægges titel af ’greve af Monpezat’. Hendes Kongelige Højhed Kronprinsesse Mary samt Hans Kongelige Højhed Prins Joachims kommende ægtefælle frk. Marie Cavallier vil som følge heraf føre titlen ’grevinde af Monpezat’.
Titlen føres endvidere af efterkommere født i lovligt ægteskab, i overensstemmelse med de almindelige regler, der gælder herom, hvilket vil sige, at titlen ’greve af Monpezat’ videreføres af mandlige descendenter, medens kvindelige descendenter fører titlen ’komtesse af Monpezat’.
Der er tale om en ny, yderligere titel der kan anvendes i tilknytning til de eksisterende. Titlen berører ikke de nugældende prædikater. Navn og titel vil herefter i kort form eksempelvis kunne være:
. Hans Kongelige Højhed Kronprins Frederik, greve af Monpezat
. Hendes Kongelige Højhed Kronprinsesse Mary, grevinde af Monpezat
. Hans Kongelige Højhed Prins Christian, greve af Monpezat
. Hendes Kongelige Højhed Prinsesse Isabella, komtesse af Monpezat
Eventuelle henvendelser på denne pressemeddelelse bedes rettet til Kabinetssekretariatet på telefon 3340 2484.
Henning Fode
Hendes Majestæt Dronningens Kabinetssekretær
Many Scandinavian noble families lack particles in their surnames. Danish examples are Rosenkrantz, Knuth, , Danneskiold-Samsøe etc... Some originally German families like the Rantzau and Schack have even lost their particles after centuries in Denmark.Aren't particles standard in a noble surname? Particles like af, von, and de are integrated parts of family names. This is different to the particle (or is it a preposition?) til (comparable with German zu) to denote his or her place of residence, for example;
Prins Joachim til Denmark (denotes his rank as a Prince of Denmark)
Greve af Monpezat (noble title in combination with family name).
Technically they are entitled to get the title of princess, and so are any children.
However that is up to the monarch.
So it is very likely that Nikolai and Felix - and Henrik, will take the title of say Count de Montepezat and drop their princely title upon marriage. So we avoid ending up having flocks of royals roaming streets.
But wouldn't that appear as a slight to religion? That unmarried men (eventually with a girlfriend) are princes but as soon as they marry (in church) said girlfriend, both are suddenly only Greve and Grevinde? That's not what I wish for as a Danish church official. But that their children could only be a greve and a komtesse should be rather normal.
On a different note: as SHSG is not a name but just a derivation of the place the family used to own, so just a dynastic term, could prince Charles of the UK as son of Philip SHSG, prince of Greece and Denmark, decided that from him onwards, the House of Windsor consists now of the House of SCG (the queen) and of SHSG (his father)? (He is a historian, I mean...)
If Nikolai and his brothers remained princes but their children were only countesses and counts, it would actually be a change from the current normal. For centuries the children born to Princes to Denmark have been Princes and Princesses to/of Denmark.
If Nikolai and his brothers remained princes but their children were only countesses and counts, it would actually be a change from the current normal. For centuries the children born to Princes to Denmark have been Princes and Princesses to/of Denmark.
…as long as they were born in equal marriages. [...]
(..) as of 1 January 2023, His Royal Highness Prince Joachim’s descendants can only use their titles as counts and countess of Monpezat, as the titles of prince and princess that they have held up until now will be discontinued. Prince Joachim’s descendants will thus have to be addressed as excellencies in the future. (..) With her decision, Her Majesty The Queen wishes to create the framework for the four grandchildren to be able to shape their own lives to a much greater extent without being limited by the special considerations and duties that a formal affiliation with the Royal House of Denmark as an institution involves.
All four grandchildren maintain their places in the order of succession.
I wonder brought about this decision?
I wonder if in the future Prince Nikolai's wife and Prince Felix's wife will have the title of Princess?
Technically they are entitled to get the title of princess, and so are any children.
However that is up to the monarch.
So it is very likely that Nikolai and Felix - and Henrik, will take the title of say Count de Montepezat and drop their princely title upon marriage. So we avoid ending up having flocks of royals roaming streets.
Billed Bladet spoke to Countess Alexandra's secretary who says they are all saddened and shocked by the Royal Household's decision to withdraw the titles of princes from Prince Joachim's children.
https://www.billedbladet.dk/kongeli...-af-boernenes-titler-vi-som-foraeldre-er-dybt
We are all confused by the decision.*We are saddened and in shock.*This comes like a bolt from the blue.*The children feel ostracized.*They cannot understand why their identity is being taken away from them.*
To the general public who are not that well versed in titles, there is no real distinction between HH and HRH. - Nikolai is Prince ergo he is a full royal. That also applies to segments of the press, especially when they want to...
Nikolai can very much be compared to Princess Elisabeth I think.
She's never married or had any children, so that "issue" ends with her. And she had a career in the Foreign Ministry, sometimes being deployed abroad. That's an acceptable and safe career for an "inactive" royal. Not controversial and out of sight and out of mind.
And if need be I suppose all Joachim's children can be parked away safely like that. Beforehand younger royals had a career in the military or like Elisabeth became a civil servant or even went into the church or in some cases had a manor somewhere. - Pretty much the traditional career choices for younger siblings of the upper class.
But that does put limitations on their choice of careers.
Nothing that is remotely political. Nothing that brings him into conflict with Danish interests or with segments of the population is acceptable, so that may rule out him being a top executive in a private business. And so on.
The problem is also that the DRF has to neutral in almost every aspect. That also includes inactive members. Otherwise there is a very good chance of that detracting from the monarchy itself. - That sentiment is admittedly sometimes bordering on being hysterical here in DK, but it's there.
It's easier and simpler to renounce the title and just be a count. For Nikolai himself it won't make that big a difference in relation to the DRF. He'll still be invited for family events and such, but not standing with his cousins. I think he'll survive that. It's not like he's being kicked out of a palace or anything like that.
So if Nikolai and his siblings wish to retain their titles as royals and have a career of their own it's better if they settle and work outside DK.
That I think applies to the Nordic monarchies. They have different traditions in the Benelux countries, and yet, even there there have been controversies and scandals when secondary royals have messed things up.
So again: If Nikolai is inactive, it would IMO be simpler for him to officially opt out of the royal roadshow.
We debated something similar in regards to Madeleine when she married. I think she would get much less criticism and be much more free (and so would her husband BTW) had she renounced her royal title when she married.
Now she is criticized for not being active enough, for not being in Sweden enough and so on...
Wow, and she has the audacity to make that public... Alexandra's secretary claims that all three parents are deeply shocked by this decision. And big words about loss of identity are being used.
We are all confused by the decision.*We are saddened and in shock.*This comes like a bolt from the blue.*The children feel ostracized.*They cannot understand why their identity is being taken away from them.*
Billed Bladet spoke to Countess Alexandra's secretary who says they are all saddened and shocked by the Royal Household's decision to withdraw the titles of princes from Prince Joachim's children.
https://www.billedbladet.dk/kongeli...-af-boernenes-titler-vi-som-foraeldre-er-dybt
Billed Bladet spoke to Countess Alexandra's secretary who says they are all saddened and shocked by the Royal Household's decision to withdraw the titles of princes from Prince Joachim's children.
https://www.billedbladet.dk/kongeli...-af-boernenes-titler-vi-som-foraeldre-er-dybt
The timing is really odd. It would have made more sense to do it when they first added the Monpezat-titles, or when the kids applied for permission to marry. Not just randomly in a jubilee year.
I did however expect they would lose their titles only upon marriage.
The timing does surprise me a little bit, because Nikolai and Felix are still being educated and in immediate danger of getting married.
Henrik and Athene still goes to school.
And there are no other significant things scheduled and no public debate that warrants this action being taken right now.
I cannot help wonder if there are other announcements coming up...
One thought that springs to mind is that Nikolai's sweetheart Benedikte is in "happy circumstances."
Another thought is that QMII retires (not necessarily abdicating, but "only" retiring) from next year and everything is now in the hands of M&F, including whatever overhauls of the court and the DRF they wish to make.
Billed Bladet spoke to Countess Alexandra's secretary who says they are all saddened and shocked by the Royal Household's decision to withdraw the titles of princes from Prince Joachim's children.
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So they are now Count Nikolai, Count Felix, Count Henrik and Countess Athena?
It will be interesting to see what happens to any children the sisters of the heirs (Isabella and Josephine in Denmark and Alexia and Ariane in the Netherlands) will have.
Considering children can't inherit titles/styles from their mother (unless their mother is the reigning sovereign), their children won't have titles unless their husbands are granted some kind of nobility title when they marry.
So, whoever HRH Princess Isabella marries, for example, will be Master/Miss (or the Danish equivalent) and then their father's last name.