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  #341  
Old 05-09-2006, 05:52 AM
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Here's the rest of the pics from the interview, btw (all by NRC)


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  #342  
Old 05-09-2006, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandria
I'm not Dutch so perhaps that makes a difference, but I do like Mabel. From the few interviews I've read or seen about Mabel's social causes, particularly her work with AIDS and her lobbying for more attention and funding, I find her to be a very intelligent woman who is fighting for something real and who is doing something good for the greater world.

My feeling is that such good work by Mabel is overshadowed by the scandal of "Mabelgate." I think for many people the fact that she lied about any association with a known criminal is a sign that she might possibly or could possibly lie about other things in the future, which makes her untrustworthy. I think that if she had just confessed to having been an acquaintance of the man rather than try to hide that fact, little more attention would've been paid to the matter. (Certainly it would be less of an issue several years later and with a second baby on the way.)

Consider how little the past actions of Maxima's father matters these days. He didn't attend his daughter's wedding but he attended both of his granddaughter's baptisms in the Netherlands and even posed for pictures with the Queen. Had Maxima tried to defend her father or justify his actions, her father's presence may not be welcome at such family events.
I totally agree with this point of view! I like very much women with caracter, and I think Mabel's job and activities are at least as important as Maxima's work about micro-credit or Laurentien about illitteracy.
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  #343  
Old 05-09-2006, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxie
Thanks for that, Marengo!
For our Dutch speaking members I found a link to the article. You can read it for free at the NRC website: http://www.nrc.nl/digitaleeditie/maandblad/today.html

And here are two pics from the interview (also from NRC, of course), which were quite nice in my opinion! :) It's a nice interview, by the way...
I've the impression Mabel brought to Friso all the happiness he didn't have when he was still in line for the throne.
  #344  
Old 05-09-2006, 07:56 AM
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I think the problem with Mabel is that once you lose your integrity it is impossible to come back. Although camilla seems to be rehabilitating herslef at the rate of knots!
  #345  
Old 05-09-2006, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxie
I think that is exactly the problem with Mabel over here in the Netherlands, Alexandria. You expressed it quite well. I mean, everyone makes mistakes, but lying about them is just not the smartest thing to be done in this case, because (as you say) one get's a feeling there is more.
Thanks for your Dutch opinon Maxie! I think the situation was worsened by the fact that Mabel lied about something so little and so unnecessarily. Had she lied to protect someone's feelings or for a bigger (good) reason, then I think that the lying could have been overlooked. But that she lied about a relationship that took place years ago seemed to imply that she had something bigger to hide and that is probably what the Dutch people didn't like or didn't trust about her.

As an outsider, when I first heard of the engagement and read all the profiles of Mabel, she seemed incredible! She was a very academic-minded and learned individual, she had a good job and was passionate about important social causes. In the end, Mabel hurt herself most by trying to protect herself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane1
I think the problem with Mabel is that once you lose your integrity it is impossible to come back. Although camilla seems to be rehabilitating herslef at the rate of knots!
The thing about Mabel is that I don't think she really cares to rehabilitate herself in the eyes of the Dutch people. She lives far away (even though it is for professional opportunities as Friso said in his interview), and because of her job some level of criticism of public and international individuals is required, which doesn't always endear people to you.

I think she has a life that she is happy with -- she has a husband who loves and supports her, a daughter and another child on the way, a mother-in-law who loves her and she still has an honourary title of Princess. Not too many people outside of royal watchers like us is going to quibble whether Mabel is part of the royal house or not, or if her title is HRH Princess Mabel or HH Princess Mabel or whatever. To the rest of the world, a princess is a princess, no matter what her rank within the family.

I think Camilla made mistakes in the past, but I also think that the media made her out to be more of a pitbull than she really was. And the fact that Camilla never spoke out publicly during the Camilla/Charles/Diana days hurt her a lot. But now we see Camilla really making an effort and getting to know her more through her royal engagements and that has changed people's minds about her. But we hardly see Mabel and the few occasions we do see her she is with the rest of her family, and truthfully, who can pay attention to Mabel when exuberant Maxima or colourful Laurentien is present? Even the sweetness of Annette or the femininity of Aimee at the recent Queensday overshadowed Mabel. The little attention that was paid to Mabel was spent looking for a sign of a bow in her outfit!
  #346  
Old 05-10-2006, 05:37 AM
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Luckily most people tend to move forward in matters like these. You can see it in several examples you named too, like Camilla. I've had the same with Maxima. To be honest: I didn't like her at all when I first saw her (the dancing and smoking pics) and all I thought was: Oh my God, does he have to be our queen one day? But at the engagement she seemed to be heavily intelligent and witty (oh those prejudices! ) and best of all: she made a statement about the whole situation with her father, she was not avoiding it. Friso and Mabel could have done the same, I think most Dutch would have forgiven them, but now the media portraited them like a bunch of dishonest people. It's merely a case of bad PR. They thought: well, we don't have to explain ourselves in front of the Dutch public, we're private persons, but as a matter of fact they were not. :o
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  #347  
Old 05-10-2006, 01:20 PM
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I don't see Mabel's situation being put on par with Camilla's. That's just a whole different can of worms as far as I'm concerned. For me, I'd rather have someone lie about their aquaintance with a ganster than have someone be a huge factor in the break-up of a marriage and family. The latter is more unforgivable, in my point of view.

Main point is that it looks like she makes Johan Friso quite happy. She's given him a sweet daughter and another child on the way. They may not be a part of the Royal House anymore, but they're still part of the family which is great to see like during the Queen's birthday. It shows that it's the fact that you're a family that matters in the end.
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  #348  
Old 05-10-2006, 02:22 PM
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Friso and Mabel look so happy together. :)
They look quiet relaxed. It's great to see them both so happy after they had such a difficult start (with the press and so on )...
  #349  
Old 05-10-2006, 02:37 PM
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When the baby due? Is it a girl or a boy?
  #350  
Old 05-10-2006, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandria
Thanks for your Dutch opinon Maxie! I think the situation was worsened by the fact that Mabel lied about something so little and so unnecessarily. Had she lied to protect someone's feelings or for a bigger (good) reason, then I think that the lying could have been overlooked. But that she lied about a relationship that took place years ago seemed to imply that she had something bigger to hide and that is probably what the Dutch people didn't like or didn't trust about her.

As an outsider, when I first heard of the engagement and read all the profiles of Mabel, she seemed incredible! She was a very academic-minded and learned individual, she had a good job and was passionate about important social causes. In the end, Mabel hurt herself most by trying to protect herself.



The thing about Mabel is that I don't think she really cares to rehabilitate herself in the eyes of the Dutch people. She lives far away (even though it is for professional opportunities as Friso said in his interview), and because of her job some level of criticism of public and international individuals is required, which doesn't always endear people to you.

I think she has a life that she is happy with -- she has a husband who loves and supports her, a daughter and another child on the way, a mother-in-law who loves her and she still has an honourary title of Princess. Not too many people outside of royal watchers like us is going to quibble whether Mabel is part of the royal house or not, or if her title is HRH Princess Mabel or HH Princess Mabel or whatever. To the rest of the world, a princess is a princess, no matter what her rank within the family.
Alexandria, you're hitting the nail on the head re. Mabel.
At the end of the day it wasn't really so much the affair that was too much for the Dutch to stomach, it was more the way she (and Friso) handled it when the truth (or a version of it) came out.

The fact they acted so clumsily in terms of handling the affair PR-wise, confirms what Friso also says in the interview: that he underestimated the situation in terms of the effects on the public.

As you said, both Friso and Mabel don't particularly have a talent for strategic PR because they ultimately could care less--which ultimately came across to the rest of us as some sort of disdain of the public at large--even though what it really was and is, is indifference of this couple regarding keeping up appearances: they both don't have the cunning, forward-thinking vision, public relations-wise, that Maxima has for instance.
  #351  
Old 05-10-2006, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxie
Luckily most people tend to move forward in matters like these. You can see it in several examples you named too, like Camilla. I've had the same with Maxima. To be honest: I didn't like her at all when I first saw her (the dancing and smoking pics) and all I thought was: Oh my God, does he have to be our queen one day? But at the engagement she seemed to be heavily intelligent and witty (oh those prejudices! ) and best of all: she made a statement about the whole situation with her father, she was not avoiding it. Friso and Mabel could have done the same, I think most Dutch would have forgiven them, but now the media portraited them like a bunch of dishonest people. It's merely a case of bad PR. They thought: well, we don't have to explain ourselves in front of the Dutch public, we're private persons, but as a matter of fact they were not. :o
Maxie, I couldn't agree more. And I have to say, for all their smarts and sizable IQ's, Friso and Mabel don't get any points on handling PR.
  #352  
Old 05-10-2006, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
the second part, still by Joris:




....
- So far Friso Vanorange.
Marengo, thanks for posting this!
I also read the Dutch version (if I have more time this weekend I'd be happy to fill in some details left out in the translation if anyone's interested), it's a good interview and to my delight it confirms what I had hoped and suspected Friso to really be like (as far as any media interview can accurately depict the way someone is and what they're about): a person who wants to do his own thing, who wants to get places on his own merit.

And he has: he has accomplished things most of us could only dream of, and not because of his royal lineage. To for example get into Berkeley, University of California's branche near San Francisco, is no mean feat--it's one of the best universities in the US, if not the world, and to get in, they really only accept the best of the best, academically. For Friso to have studied engineering there, a study the university's famous for, really says a lot about Friso's potential.

He also came across as the opposite of pretentious. That is also what I'd always thought he'd be like.
Now, as for Mabel, I do agree she works hard and probably really cares for the work she does. And I also would agree she and Friso probably get along greatly if only because they're both intellectual and have distinct visions about the world and what they want it to be.

And yet I can't help but think that they ended up together because Mabel made the concious decision to get to know him better, not the other way around. There's one sentence in the interview, where Friso said they met at Laurentien's in Brussel in Jan. 2000 and then a couple of months later, when Mabel coincidentally had to be in London, his residence, she "decided to look him up there". And then things went from there. I can't help but read between lines here and thinlk that she really was the relationship's 'champion' there...not that there's anything wrong with that, I just get the impression.

Bottom line though is they both seem happy where they are today, seem decent people (especially him) who try to make a difference, which I guess is more than most of us can say.
  #353  
Old 05-10-2006, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlightrhapsody
I don't see Mabel's situation being put on par with Camilla's. That's just a whole different can of worms as far as I'm concerned. For me, I'd rather have someone lie about their aquaintance with a ganster than have someone be a huge factor in the break-up of a marriage and family. The latter is more unforgivable, in my point of view.
I am in total agreement with you on this. What Camilla did was far, far worse.
Quote:
Main point is that it looks like she makes Johan Friso quite happy. She's given him a sweet daughter and another child on the way. They may not be a part of the Royal House anymore, but they're still part of the family which is great to see like during the Queen's birthday. It shows that it's the fact that you're a family that matters in the end.
Yes, they do look happy living away from the Netherlands and when they do come home, Mabel and Friso seem comfortable with the family and the family seems comfortable with them. They are also at ease on the special occasions that they are at public events with the DuRF.
  #354  
Old 05-10-2006, 10:27 PM
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I think telling lies about your past isn't worth it because will catch up with you. It clearly has with Mabel.
  #355  
Old 05-11-2006, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlightrhapsody
I don't see Mabel's situation being put on par with Camilla's. That's just a whole different can of worms as far as I'm concerned. For me, I'd rather have someone lie about their aquaintance with a ganster than have someone be a huge factor in the break-up of a marriage and family. The latter is more unforgivable, in my point of view.

...
I agree knowingly breaking up a marriage is arguably more devastating to involved parties' surroundings than a fling with a 'bad guy' when young.

But--hate to do this, as the past should stay there, as they say--but Mabel did both. And no, I'm not talking about the Bruinsma relationship. I'm talking about one of Mabel's more recent beaus: Mo Sacirbey, the formerly prominent Bosnian politician. This man was very married when Mabel set her eyes on and started a romance with him in the mid nineties. (Anyways like Bruinsma, Sacirbey is a controversial figure as well: accused of stealing over $1 million from the Bosnian government, he's spending time in jail in the US at the moment. --off topic slightly: I know his brother who is convinced Mohamed is innocent and thus unjustly in prison)

Yet the fact he was married didn't keep Mabel from having a relationship with Sacirbey that lasted a number of years. It is interesting this didn't cause any outrage in the Netherlands at the time of Mabel's engagement to Friso, and the reason may well be that the Mabel/Sacirbey connection was a relatively well known fact among the Dutch, so they didn't make a big deal out of it.
  #356  
Old 05-12-2006, 10:04 AM
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May 12, 2006
DELFT - Prince Friso unveils on Friday by De Roos molen in Delft, a special plaquette in memory on his father prince Claus.
The plaquette is placed at the official opening of this mill on 28 September 1990 through prince Claus and also a token of appreciation is for that one many years' protector of De Hollandsche Molen.

from ANP
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  #357  
Old 05-27-2006, 10:44 PM
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Prince Friso really does appear very happy and relaxed. I think Mabel is very good for him, too bad she didn't tell the truth in the beginning and Friso would have been both happy and in-line for the throne.:(
  #358  
Old 05-28-2006, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi P.
Prince Friso really does appear very happy and relaxed. I think Mabel is very good for him, too bad she didn't tell the truth in the beginning and Friso would have been both happy and in-line for the throne.:(
IMHO, he didn't care at all being in line for the throne. He never enjoyed his royal status and was bored when performing royal duties.
  #359  
Old 05-28-2006, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielane
IMHO, he didn't care at all being in line for the throne. He never enjoyed his royal status and was bored when performing royal duties.
I think exactly the same! He usually loked very grumpy in public, and you could read on his face that he found it all nonsense. I think he is happy with a role in the background, probably involved with the family finances etc. And considering Mabels political job, i think it saved the monarchy from some problems that she isn't a member of the royal house either.
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Old 06-01-2006, 12:54 AM
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LONDON - MAY 31: Princess Mabel of Orange attends the party and dinner celebrating the success of Viktor & Rolf first fragrance "Flowerbomb" hosted by Haper's Bazaar at the Elms Lesters Painting Room on May 31, 2006 London, England.

source :gettyimages
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