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  #741  
Old 01-08-2013, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The religious issue is moot in Australia as we already have separation of Church and State.

However do we manage? Surely not having an established church is the end of civilisation as we know it.

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Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
All opinion based on a bias. Whether Catherine came to her faith late, does not mean she can't be a religious person. It is not up to Charles to be 'Defender of the Faiths' whatever that is. Parliament will decide his Coronation Oath
Charles' track record indicates he is very selective in what he chooses to adhere to and what he turns a blind eye to.
You have your opinion. I have seen no evidence that either Kate or William do anything more than pay lipservice to any religious faith.
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  #742  
Old 01-08-2013, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
By the way Charles said 'Defender of Faith' singular not plural. He will be Defender of the Faith when he becomes King, unless the parliament repeals the Act that created Henry and all future monarchs Defender of the Faith.
Sometimes you just can't teach an old goat new bleats. You'd think after all these years here I would finally get it right eh?
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  #743  
Old 01-08-2013, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
All opinion based on a bias.
Opinion based on a fact. It's a mighty strong coincidence that she only chose to get confirmed after she became engaged to the future Defender of Faith/The Faith.
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  #744  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:02 PM
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Many members of the Cof E never get confirmed, unlike the RCC church where everyone gets confirmed at about 9 or 10 years of age.
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  #745  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
Many members of the Cof E never get confirmed, unlike the RCC church where everyone gets confirmed at about 9 or 10 years of age.
Thanks for the info and dose of sanity to the thread.

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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
Opinion based on a fact. It's a mighty strong coincidence that she only chose to get confirmed after she became engaged to the future Defender of Faith/The Faith.
So your opinion is a fact, well that's good to know for future reference.
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  #746  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
So your opinion is a fact, well that's good to know for future reference.
No, I did not say my opinion is a fact, I said I have an opinion - regarding Kate's level of commitment to the CofE - based on the fact she was only confirmed shortly before her marriage.
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  #747  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:13 PM
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I think that we should get back to the royal debate as in the proposed legislation and avoid personal belief systems and individual royal beliefs. Let's keep a good debate going.
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  #748  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
I think that we should get back to the royal debate as in the proposed legislation and avoid personal belief systems and individual royal beliefs. Let's keep a good debate going.
Agreed. Always count on cepe to keep the topic on track
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  #749  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
I think that we should get back to the royal debate as in the proposed legislation and avoid personal belief systems and individual royal beliefs. Let's keep a good debate going.
I this this discussion provides a fine example of the very sorts of issues that arise because of the proposed legislation, the impetus for which occurred because of some - and only some - of the inherent inequalities in our system. You cannot really exclude personal belief systems, because the legislation in question relates to issues concerning personal beliefs.

I think we've all played rather well together, actually. We've had a go at politics and religion. Shall we move onto sex now?
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  #750  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
I this this discussion provides a fine example of the very sorts of issues that arise because of the proposed legislation, the impetus for which occurred because of some - and only some - of the inherent inequalities in our system. You cannot really exclude personal belief systems, because the legislation in question relates to issues concerning personal beliefs.

I think we've all played rather well together, actually. We've had a go at politics and religion. Shall we move onto sex now?
I'd say YES, but this giraffe should head to bed. Oh, wait.....
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  #751  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
Many members of the Cof E never get confirmed, unlike the RCC church where everyone gets confirmed at about 9 or 10 years of age.

That's not quite accurate...here confirmation doesn't happen until a person is in their mid teens.


LaRae
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  #752  
Old 01-09-2013, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
No, I did not say my opinion is a fact, I said I have an opinion - regarding Kate's level of commitment to the CofE - based on the fact she was only confirmed shortly before her marriage.
I was baptised and confirmed in the 12 months before I was married....how is that a comment on level of commitment? My parents, being different faiths ( 1 Protestant, the other RC) left it up to us to make our own decisions as adults. I would posit that making that decision as an adult, rather than as a 13yo (the usual age when Catechism classes are offered) , makes it a more considered and mature commitment.
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  #753  
Old 01-09-2013, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
What he is saying is the Head of the Church of England asks permission of the Head of the Catholic Church for their child/grandchild not to brought up a Catholic which is against canon law.
It has happened for centuries that Catholic princesses married protestant kings or heirs of protestant kings and stayed Catholic while their children were brought up protestant (think Bavarian princesses married to Sweden or Prussia). While it is "normal" for Catholics on marrying protestants to bring up the children as Catholics, it is not a problem to do it differently nowadays.

But I understand the worries of the CoE, but have no doubt they'll find the Catholic pope to be willing to agree to the planned changes. It's not as if the problem never existed before and was never solved....
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  #754  
Old 01-09-2013, 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Trillian View Post
I was baptised and confirmed in the 12 months before I was married....how is that a comment on level of commitment? My parents, being different faiths ( 1 Protestant, the other RC) left it up to us to make our own decisions as adults. I would posit that making that decision as an adult, rather than as a 13yo (the usual age when Catechism classes are offered) , makes it a more considered and mature commitment.
Your circumstances are quite different from Kate's. You were not marrying the anticipated future Supreme Governor of the Church of England, and she had been Christened in the usual course as a baby. In her case I find the timing of her decision to proceed with Confirmation to be very suspicious, and a perusal of the comments above will reveal that I am not the only one to think that way.

I'm a little surprised you weren't baptised as a baby though, into one or other of your parents' churches, though perhaps they are only nominal members of their religion. Whatever the case may be, I commend your parents' decision to let you make up your own mind as an adult; I think that is as it should be.
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  #755  
Old 01-09-2013, 03:33 AM
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If there's one thing I'd love to see in a modern monarchy, it's the idea that one's personal faith is very personal, and should neither qualify nor disqualify anyone for any professional position.

I really do hope Charles becomes "Defender of Faiths" rather than "Defender of the Faith" and that it's formally acknowledged that one's private beliefs should be totally private. I personally couldn't care less about when Catherine was confirmed or about how often William and Catherine attend church. And I hope that soon, religious beliefs will not preclude two people who love each other from marrying, even of one of those people is heir to the throne.

I see the monarch as a representative of the people, and to my mind, this means that they should represent all of the people as much as possible. I know it's governed by hereditary privilege and I know there's no real answer to that- it will never be a democratic institution. However, within those confines, it should be as democratic as possible, and that means making sure that women can inherit and that men in the family can marry the person of their choice without it influencing succession rights.
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  #756  
Old 01-09-2013, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
Your circumstances are quite different from Kate's. You were not marrying the anticipated future Supreme Governor of the Church of England, and she had been Christened in the usual course as a baby. In her case I find the timing of her decision to proceed with Confirmation to be very suspicious, and a perusal of the comments above will reveal that I am not the only one to think that way.

I'm a little surprised you weren't baptised as a baby though, into one or other of your parents' churches, though perhaps they are only nominal members of their religion. Whatever the case may be, I commend your parents' decision to let you make up your own mind as an adult; I think that is as it should be.
Assuming the Royal Family usually takes Communion, Kate would have to be Confirmed before she could take Communion with them.
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  #757  
Old 01-10-2013, 09:12 AM
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Peter Hunt‏@BBCPeterHunt
The bill which will ensure that if William and Kate's child is a girl she will be queen will be debated in the Commons on Tuesday 22nd Jan.
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  #758  
Old 01-15-2013, 03:01 AM
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BBC News - New royal succession law despite MP's Kaiser warning
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If William and Kate's baby is a girl, she would be expected to become monarch ahead of any younger male siblings.
However, the MP for Louth and Horncastle Sir Peter Tapsell has warned of the dangers of breaking with centuries of tradition.
Speaking in the Commons, the Father of the House said: "But for our law of male primogeniture, the German Kaiser would have become King of England, which would have produced almost as interesting a coalition as the present one."
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  #759  
Old 01-17-2013, 06:48 AM
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I seriously don't see the point in mentioning that Kaiser Wilhelm would have been King, if equal primogeniture had existed in Victoria's time. It didn't, and her eldest son Edward became King. Also there may have been some succesion issue as Victoria, The Princess Royal was married to the King of Prussia.
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  #760  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:31 AM
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And it's silly to think Victoria would have had the same life, husband, etc. had she been the heiress apparent rather than 5th in line.
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