The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #861  
Old 10-12-2012, 01:22 PM
Dman's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 6,663
That could be it but it still puzzle me because Diana was The Princess of Wales and future Queen for 16 years and worked her tush off on behalf of Her Majesty, UK/Commonwealth and she didn't recieve one Royal Order from The Queen. To me that's shocking.

Although she did recieve The Order of The Crown from Queen Beatrix of The Netherlands and Supreme Class of The Order of the Virtues an Egyptian Order.

Picture:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KjQ4qsY5c5...600/Diana8.jpg
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #862  
Old 10-12-2012, 01:27 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 1,181
The Duchess of York wasn't given the family order and Diana wasn't made a GCVO. Maybe HM knew something we all didn't
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #863  
Old 10-12-2012, 01:32 PM
Dman's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 6,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
Unlike in other Royal Families, orders and titles are very difficult to come by in Britain and must be earned in the eyes of HM. Since the 1300s there have been 1000 Knights of the Garter, The Order of St Olav in Norway (Their highest honour) which has been around for 200 years has over 5000 recipients. Mary Donaldson's father was made a knight of the Order of the Dannebrog. Imagine Mr Middleton being made a GCVO on the eve of his daughters marriage??? HM makes a person work for it
That's just the strange part, Diana did work hard as a senior member of the royal family and for many years. So that's what puzzled me. I think the women of the British royals look rather incomplete without Royal Orders and Sashes at State Banquets and Official Dinners compared with the other royal ladies of foreign royal houses.

I think the senior royal ladies should at least have a Royal Order & Decoration after their marrige into the royal family or at least after two or three years in.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #864  
Old 10-12-2012, 01:35 PM
Dman's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 6,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
The Duchess of York wasn't given the family order and Diana wasn't made a GCVO. Maybe HM knew something we all didn't
I somehow think The Queen has decided to give more recognition (both privately and publically) to the senior royal women then she did with Diana & Sarah.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #865  
Old 10-12-2012, 01:42 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,261
Diana married the Prince of Wales in 1981, seperated in 1992 and divorced after 15 years in 1996. We know things were not good for quite sometime before they officially seperated. Obviously HM did not feel Diana merited the GCVO or she would have given it to her. She has after all decorated both Camilla and Sophie with both the Royal Family Order and the GCVO so it is not as if she has a policy against decorating daughters in law or even sons in law since Mark had the CVO and Tim is a KCVO. Diana and Sarah just did not make the cut.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #866  
Old 10-12-2012, 01:52 PM
Dman's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 6,663
I don't know, I still find it shocking Diana didn't recieve more recognition for The Queen. Sarah, well that's another story but Diana was just the most senior of royals under to Her Majesty and Queen Mother.

I just think The Queen is giving her senior family members a pat on the back more than she did back in the day, which is a good thing.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #867  
Old 10-12-2012, 02:04 PM
AdmirerUS's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 2,478
The Queen does not just hand these out because you work for the firm. She usually makes a move for major life events and LOOOOONG years of service..

The Duke of York and Earl of Wessex only got their GCVO in 2011 (ages 51 and 47 respectively)! The Countess of Wessex in 2010 (married in 1999, so 11 years elapsed and at age 45), the Duchess of Glouster in 1989 (married in 1972 - so 17 years elapsed and at age 43). Camilla got her GCVO after 7 years marriage - but also to commemorate that she was 65

Zara has not yet received the Royal Family Order of EII. Nor have the Duchess of Cambridge, Princess Michael of Kent, Eugenie or Beatrice. (that we know of).

Those ages may be off by a year because I did not bother to account for birth dates and date of investiture.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #868  
Old 10-12-2012, 02:33 PM
Dman's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 6,663
Right, I know that and that's why I had pointed out Diana should've got some recognition for her long years of service. I think she at least had deserved to be created Dame Grand Cross of The Royal Victorian Order or something.

Zara was given an MBE (Member of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire) in 2007. I don't know if she will recieve the Royal family Order of Queen Elizabeth II but I think Catherine will be given that sooner or later. Then when Charles comes to the throne, she will gain one from him and then one from William. That will be pretty impressive.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #869  
Old 10-12-2012, 02:48 PM
Molly2101's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: England, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,557
I hope when Charles becomes King he gives Sophie his Royal Family Order. It would only be right to do that, particularly is Sophie continues to do royal duties.

Sophie got her GCVO before Andrew and Edward were given theirs, though of course they were Members of the Garter.
__________________
"I am yours, you are mine, of that be sure. You are locked in my heart, the little key is lost and now you must stay there forever."
Written by Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in the diary of her fiance, Tsarevich Nicholas.
Reply With Quote
  #870  
Old 10-12-2012, 02:50 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,261
Obviously HM's opinion on what service merits recognition with one of her personal orders differs from some other people.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #871  
Old 10-12-2012, 02:59 PM
Dman's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 6,663
Most likely when Charles come to the throne, Camilla, Catherine, Sophie and other senior royal ladies will recieve The Royal Family Order of King Charles III or whatever name he take on when King. The same can be said when William comes to the throne.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #872  
Old 10-12-2012, 03:00 PM
Dman's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 6,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Obviously HM's opinion on what service merits recognition with one of her personal orders differs from some other people.
That's the best and simple way of putting it.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #873  
Old 10-12-2012, 03:06 PM
AdmirerUS's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 2,478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly2101 View Post
I hope when Charles becomes King he gives Sophie his Royal Family Order. It would only be right to do that, particularly is Sophie continues to do royal duties.

Sophie got her GCVO before Andrew and Edward were given theirs, though of course they were Members of the Garter.
If Charles does his own family order. The tradition dates back to the early 1800s and has gone from having several classes to only one. Usually awarded to 10-20 close female relations, Victoria awarded almost 100! I'll post something about this over in styles and titles and we can chat about that there, if there's interest.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #874  
Old 10-12-2012, 03:09 PM
Artemisia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Posts: 5,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg View Post
Camilla is fourth in the private order of precedence for females. The Queen, The Princess Royal and Princess Alexandra all take precedence ahead of her, but she takes precedence ahead of all others as the wife of the heir to the throne, including Sophie, Beatrice, Louise, Catherine, etc.
Are you certain about this, branchg?
It was my understanding that Camilla and other Princesses by marriage were ranked below all British Princesses by blood in the Private Order of Precedence.
That would mean Camilla ranks below not only Princess Anne and Princess Alexandra, but also Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie, and possibly Lady Louise as well.
Reply With Quote
  #875  
Old 10-12-2012, 04:52 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
Are you certain about this, branchg?
It was my understanding that Camilla and other Princesses by marriage were ranked below all British Princesses by blood in the Private Order of Precedence.
That would mean Camilla ranks below not only Princess Anne and Princess Alexandra, but also Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie, and possibly Lady Louise as well.
Yes, Camilla's place at court was confirmed by the Palace more than once. And the private order of precedence has never put all princesses of the blood ahead of princesses by marriage. It depends on the will of The Sovereign.

Wives of sons of The Sovereign usually outrank princesses of the blood at court, with the exception of The Sovereign's daughter or sister. For example, Princess Anne and Princess Margaret both outranked Diana at court, while she took precedence ahead of all others during her marriage.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #876  
Old 10-12-2012, 04:59 PM
Artemisia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Posts: 5,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg View Post
Yes, Camilla's place at court was confirmed by the Palace more than once. And the private order of precedence has never put all princesses of the blood ahead of princesses by marriage. It depends on the will of The Sovereign.

Wives of sons of The Sovereign usually outrank princesses of the blood at court, with the exception of The Sovereign's daughter or sister. For example, Princess Anne and Princess Margaret both outranked Diana at court, while she took precedence ahead of all others during her marriage.
I see. Thank you for the clarification: I was not aware of the court confirming Camilla's place in Private Precedence list.
Taking into account the new information (new to me, that is), would you say the following lists are accurate?


The Official Order of Precedence
- The Queen
- The Duchess of Cornwall
- The Countess of Wessex
- The Princess Royal
- The Duchess of Cambridge
- Autumn Phillips
- Princess Beatrice
- Princess Eugenie
- Lady Louise
- Zara Phillips
- Lady Serena Stanhope
- Lady Sarah Chatto
- Birgitte, Duchess of Gloucester
- Katharine, Duchess of Kent
- Princess Michael of Kent
- Patricia Lascelles, Countess of Harewood
- Princess Alexandra, The Honourable Lady Ogilvy

The Private Order of Precedence
- The Queen
- The Princess Royal
- Princess Alexandra, The Honourable Lady Ogilvy
- The Duchess of Cornwall
- The Countess of Wessex
- Duchess of Cambridge
- Autumn Phillips
- Princess Beatrice
- Princess Eugenie
- Lady Louise
- Zara Phillips
Reply With Quote
  #877  
Old 10-12-2012, 06:25 PM
Dman's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 6,663
If the focus is on the "core" members of the royal family, that would be-
The Queen
The Duchess of Cornwall
The Duchess of Cambridge
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #878  
Old 10-12-2012, 06:46 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,736
I'm not entirely sure, but I believe Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie take precedence ahead of Catherine, who is then followed by The Duchess of Gloucester, The Duchess of Kent and Princess Michael of Kent as HRH. Then comes females who do not hold royal rank or style.

Lady Louise is not likely to be noted at this point as she is a young child.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #879  
Old 10-12-2012, 06:53 PM
Artemisia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Posts: 5,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg View Post
I'm not entirely sure, but I believe Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie take precedence ahead of Catherine, who is then followed by The Duchess of Gloucester, The Duchess of Kent and Princess Michael of Kent as HRH. Then comes females who do not hold royal rank or style.

Lady Louise is not likely to be noted at this point as she is a young child.
But granddaughters of the Monarch (Beatrice, Eugenie, Louise and Zara) are usually below the wives of the Monarch's grandsons (Kate). If no specific stipulations were made about Kate's position, then shouldn't it be assumed her place is the same as in official precedence list - after the Countess of Wessex?
Reply With Quote
  #880  
Old 10-12-2012, 07:06 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 1,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
If the focus is on the "core" members of the royal family, that would be-
The Queen
The Duchess of Cornwall
The Duchess of Cambridge
Agree completely. The fact is the next two Queens will be Camilla and Catherine. Although precedence is fascinating, in 2012 none of the younger royals pay much attention to it. Again if you want to see who holds the 'power' in the BRF, look to the Diamond Jubilee.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
order of precedence, protocol


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Danish Orders and Monograms davo Royal House of Denmark 156 08-08-2014 12:36 PM
Danish Royal Family, Current Events 1: April 2003 - March 2008 Julia Current Events Archive 506 03-23-2008 05:56 PM
Princess Madeleine at the Ball of the Order of Innocence; 2003 Josefine Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill 62 11-19-2005 04:27 PM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth bourbon-parma charlene chris o'neill crown prince felipe crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events engagement fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta elena infanta sofia jewellery jordan kate middleton king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg ottoman picture of the month pieter van vollenhoven pom prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess mary princess of asturias queen anne-marie queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit wedding



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:01 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]