The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #461  
Old 11-30-2010, 10:07 PM
Zonk's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere in, United States
Posts: 10,370
Personally I think the DM is tryign to start something again with regards to Camilla, Kate and the ghost of Diana.

I mean, how serious was the author in regards to research. They list Lady Louise Windsor but dont' list the Duchess of Kent/Gloucester (but they list the Gloucester daughters) or Princess Michael of Kent. Poorly written and with an obvious angle IMO. Its a legit question for those who don't know but they are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.
__________________

__________________
.

Reply With Quote
  #462  
Old 05-01-2011, 04:45 AM
wbenson's Avatar
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: -, United States
Posts: 2,248
Royal wedding: new bride Kate Middleton takes her place in the Royal hierarchy - Telegraph

Kate Middleton will be expected to curtsy to 'more senior’ members of the Royal family following her marriage to Prince William.
__________________

__________________
TRF rules and FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #463  
Old 05-01-2011, 04:55 AM
wbenson's Avatar
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: -, United States
Posts: 2,248
I suspect that this will be the order of precedence for royal women:

The Duchess of Cornwall (with her husband)*
The Princess Royal
The Countess of Wessex (with)
The Duchess of Cambridge (with)
Princess Beatrice of York
Princess Eugenie of York
The Duchess of Gloucester (with)
The Duchess of Kent (with)
Princess Alexandra, the Hon. Lady Ogilvy
Princess Michael of Kent (with)
The Duchess of Cornwall (without her husband)
The Countess of Wessex (without)
The Duchess of Cambridge (without)
The Duchess of Gloucester (without)
The Duchess of Kent (without)
Princess Michael of Kent (without)

I've also come to the opinion that it's possible that the dust-up over the Duchess of Cornwall's place in precedence was actually the normal functioning of precedence, and that the so-called "private" order of precedence that's been talked about is the same as the official order of precedence.

*The only discrepancy I can find between the "private" precedence and the formal precedence is that some sources (not all) list Princesses of Wales beneath the Queen in their own right. If that's the case, then the Duchess of Cornwall is still ranked as any other wife of a son of the sovereign would be, and I assume is ranked as such due to the decision that she be styled Duchess of Cornwall rather than Princess of Wales. If it's not the case that a Princess of Wales has such precedence in her own right, then the "private" precedence that has been discussed and the formal precedence are actually identical. (The supposed private order also didn't have either of the York princesses, but I'm assuming that's because they were both minor children at the time. The private order was supposedly Anne, Alexandra, Camilla, Sophie, etc., which is actually the same as the official order (minus Beatrice and Eugenie, who were children) when the wives take precedence in their own right, when Camilla takes her place at the head of the daughters-in-law, as opposed to next to their husbands.)
__________________
TRF rules and FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #464  
Old 05-01-2011, 11:26 PM
MRSJ's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ******, United States
Posts: 1,843
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...tsey-whom.html

They almost get it right, I think, aside from 1 thing......I believe Edward as the son of the monarch is higher rank then William so Sophie would not curtesy to Kate regardless if William and Edward were in the room, she would only do so if William was and Edward not, yes? Also if Edwards in the room she wouldn't curtesy to Anne either.....
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #465  
Old 05-02-2011, 12:01 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,687
Order of precedence though normally puts the daughters of the monarch ahead of the younger sons of the monarch so Anne would be ahead of Edward.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #466  
Old 05-02-2011, 12:04 AM
MRSJ's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ******, United States
Posts: 1,843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

Order of precedence though normally puts the daughters of the monarch ahead of the younger sons of the monarch so Anne would be ahead of Edward.
Oh, I didn't realize that, I thought officially boys outranks girls .....sorry

But Edward still outranks William yes?

Precedence fascinates me for some reason.....
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #467  
Old 05-02-2011, 12:04 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Richland Center, United States
Posts: 108
The only person she will have to curtsey to is the Queen. British Princes and Princesses do not bow and curtsey to each other because they all have the same rank: Prince/Princess of the United Kingdom.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #468  
Old 05-02-2011, 12:09 AM
MRSJ's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ******, United States
Posts: 1,843
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmkrcwi
The only person she will have to curtsey to is the Queen. British Princes and Princesses do not bow and curtsey to each other because they all have the same rank: Prince/Princess of the United Kingdom.
Not true- at official events Charles as heir outranks Andrew,Anne etc...they have and do bow/curtesy to each other and foreign royals ....

And someone clarify for me, isn't Prince/Princess a title/style and not a rank......or is it both?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #469  
Old 05-02-2011, 12:48 AM
wbenson's Avatar
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: -, United States
Posts: 2,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSJ View Post
Oh, I didn't realize that, I thought officially boys outranks girls .....sorry
In succession but not in precedence. In precedence, all daughters rank alongside eldest sons but come ahead of younger sons. That's why daughters of Earls are "The Lady X" but younger sons are only "The Honourable X."
__________________
TRF rules and FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #470  
Old 05-02-2011, 03:27 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,687
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmkrcwi View Post
The only person she will have to curtsey to is the Queen. British Princes and Princesses do not bow and curtsey to each other because they all have the same rank: Prince/Princess of the United Kingdom.
British princes and princesses to curtsey to each other based on precedence.

To us they are all the same but not to them - they are aware of where they fit and they do acknowledge that difference with the curtsies etc so Kate will curtsey to Camilla, Anne and Sophie as they are the daughter and daughters-in-law of the monarch. She may also have to curtsey to Alexandra, Beatrice and Eugenie as these three ladies were princesses born but that will be determined by the Queen if she updates the order of precedence that she issued when Camilla married into the family.

In time they will all curtsey to her and then she will curtsey to the next Queen after her - if she outlives William of course.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #471  
Old 05-02-2011, 03:49 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Edinburgh, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,500
I hope that, when William becomes King, he gets rid of all the curtseying and flunkeying !!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #472  
Old 05-02-2011, 04:22 AM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 17,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renata4711
I hope that, when William becomes King, he gets rid of all the curtseying and flunkeying !!
You seriously think he should get rid of curtseying? That's ridiculous IMO.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #473  
Old 05-02-2011, 04:33 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
You seriously think he should get rid of curtseying? That's ridiculous IMO.
Why is that ridiculous? It seems like a very reasonable suggestion.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #474  
Old 05-02-2011, 04:42 AM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 17,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowhite

Why is that ridiculous? It seems like a very reasonable suggestion.
Because curtseying or "flunkying" has occured in royal families forever. If the BRF chose not to curtsey to either each other or foreign royals they would certainly seem like the outsiders. Even the modern monarchies like Denmark and Sweden still curtsey. It's part of being royal.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #475  
Old 05-02-2011, 04:42 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,687
If we are going to have something as outdated as monarchy then having the trappings is also necessary and that includes the curtseying etc.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #476  
Old 05-02-2011, 05:12 AM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 17,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie
If we are going to have something as outdated as monarchy then having the trappings is also necessary and that includes the curtseying etc.
Well said, in an interesting way.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #477  
Old 05-02-2011, 07:28 AM
Esmerelda's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,215
Didn't William request that there be no bowing/curtseying when he visited Australia. Maybe he'd prefer if people didn't?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #478  
Old 05-02-2011, 07:43 AM
MARG's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 4,332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renata4711 View Post
I hope that, when William becomes King, he gets rid of all the curtseying and flunkeying !!
Right at the same time he, in his capacity of Head of the Armed Forces, gets rid of the demeaning custom of paying of compliments (saluting) superior officers!
__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
Reply With Quote
  #479  
Old 05-02-2011, 08:07 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Alexandria, United States
Posts: 177
I can see and understand the importance of bowing/curtsying in public--but do they really do that in private too?

I suspect William will just go along with the public bowing/curtsying, but once he get on the Throne, I suspect he'll get rid of that in private (such as private family gatherings, etc).
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #480  
Old 05-02-2011, 08:22 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 643
Two little points to mention here because they sometimes traps the unwary are:

1. Precedence and Succession are two very different things - this is clearly shown by the way that Prince Michael of Kent does not appear in the line of succession, as he forfeited his right to the throne when he married Marie-Christine. His own children however DO remain in the line of succession. However, Prince Michael of Kent clearly outranks his son in order of precedence!

2. On Divorce, female [ex] Royals lose their precedence - and their titles are adjusted - your designation as 'a Royal Highness' is removed and you become known as Diana, Princess of Wales, Sarah Duchess of York etc.

3. There is generally no difficulty with Precedence where the Royal Family is concerned, because their positions are so well known. Problems usually arise where the nobility is concerned, and most usually with wives, particularly where a wife is the daughter of a Peer as well as a wife. For example, Princess Diana's sister Lady Sarah McCorquodale is married to a Gentleman Mr Neil McCorquodale, but retains her rank as the Eldest Daugher of an Earl. There are all sorts of similar traps for the unwary: some of my foreign friends who do not come from countries where there are monarchies find it amazing that Zara Phillips enjoys both a (relatively) high place in both the order of succession and precedence despite the fact that she is [only] Miss Zara Phillips... My friends find it incredulous that you can be a grandaughter of the present Queen and be untitled.

Hope this helps,

Alex
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
order of precedence, protocol


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Danish Orders and Monograms davo Royal House of Denmark 156 08-08-2014 12:36 PM
Danish Royal Family, Current Events 1: April 2003 - March 2008 Julia Current Events Archive 506 03-23-2008 05:56 PM
Princess Madeleine at the Ball of the Order of Innocence: 2003 Josefine Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill 62 11-19-2005 04:27 PM




Popular Tags
belgium brussels carl philip charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events engagement fashion genealogy germany grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta sofia jordan king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander letizia luxembourg nobility official visit olympics ottoman pieter van vollenhoven poland president hollande president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince daniel prince floris prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess beatrix princess charlene princess laurentien princess madeleine princess margriet princess marilene princess mary princess mary fashion queen fabiola queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:32 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]