Duke and Duchess of Windsor (1894-1972) and (1895-1986)

[Iluvbertie]

Mumps doesn't always cause sterility if contracted in or after puberty - if it did them every boy in my brother's year at boarding school would have failed to father any children as they all came down with the mumps in Third Form, as it was then called - now Year 9 - so 14 - 16 years old. Everyone of them has at least two children.

 

[Ish]

As per Wikipedia, "in teenage males and men, complications such as infertility or subfertiliy are more common, although still rare in absolute terms." Doesn't always cause it and doesn't usually cause it, but can. Both David and Bertie seem to have contracted mumps around the same time (I believe in 1911-ish). As one had a reputation for being a playboy but has no known children - legitimate or otherwise - and the other was not a playboy but had 2 children, the implication is that mumps may have cause infertility in David but not Bertie.

 

[Tsaritsa]

It is the onset of orchitis (inflamation of the testicles) which can accompany mumps, which can lead to sterility.

 

[Dman]

Never Seen This Picture Before:

The Duchess of Windsor, Lord Louis Mountbatten and HRH The Duke of Kent laying flowers at the Duke of Windsor’s grave at the Royal Burial Ground at Frogmore in 1973:

http://kingedwardviii.tumblr.com/image/44757745778
.

 

[branchg]

It's been seen many times before and was the last time The Duchess visited the UK. She met with The Queen afterwards for tea and then returned to Paris that afternoon. The Queen never saw or spoke with her again.

 

[Queen Camilla]

This evening, PBS in Chicago aired Extraordinary Women: Wallis Simpson.

It stated that her 1st husband Win Spencer repeatedly physically abused Wallis that he caused internal bleeding.
Wallis might had become infertile because of the physical abuse.
While in the Bahamas, Wallis helped local children because she and Edward never had kids.
It showed another side of the story.
.

 

[Dman]

King Edward VIII bugged during abdication crisis:
BBC News - King Edward VIII bugged during abdication crisis

 

[Iluvbertie]

I am rather surprised to here that this was supposedly kept secret for so long as I have known that for yonks.

What hasn't been made known is what was heard - that would be interesting.

 

[AdmirerUS]

I am rather surprised to here that this was supposedly kept secret for so long as I have known that for yonks.

What hasn't been made known is what was heard - that would be interesting.

Oh yes, I'd queue in line for that revelation!

 

[Dman]

It's interesting seeing that the late King/Duke's great-nephew has managed to do something that he himself wasn't able to do in the 30's.

 

[Ish]

Things change in 70 years.

 

[PrincessKaimi]

Except Camilla isn't American.

 

[Ish]

And Wallis being an American wasn't the problem.

 

[Dman]

Yeah, I just think the Windsor's help pave the way for Charles & Camilla.

 

[COUNTESS]

I am no great fan of the Duke of Windsor, but he was as much an HRH, as the new king. If you believe in that stuff, he as born to it, hardly can remove it by a piece of paper. And since they "allowed him to keep the title, they spitefully denied his wife of her rightful title. HRH. Not that it means a hill of beans. Just the DOC is an HRH, she is no different than Wallis. Of course, today it was possible. Take a 2 step here and there and you have the "Best Little Whore House in Texas".

 

[NGalitzine]

OH Good grief, the world has changed a lot since 1936. A twice divorced woman with 2 living ex husbands was not acceptable for a Queen. 2 living husbands might still pose a problem today. Still in 1936 a divorced man could not become President of the US and I doubt he could have a much married and divorced First Lady either. When Betty Ford became FLOTUS in 1974 her status as a previously divorced woman was much written about. It wasnt until 1980 that a divorced man was elected POTUS. Now of course there are presidential candidates who have been married and divorced multiple times and it does not seem to bother too many people. Times change, most people are able to adapt and move on.

 

[MARG]

Hmm, so the US was just as "bigoted", "mean" and "spiteful" as the UK. Good to know and great for a balanced look at history "in it's time and place" instead of the sniping involved in equating the DoW situation to that of the DoC 70 years after the fact!

 

[Iluvbertie]

I bet a lot of the people who make that comparison would be horrified if the attitudes to divorced people in ordinary society still existed today - e.g. one or other party had to be labelled as 'at fault', they wouldn't be accepted in many homes or even jobs or clubs/associations.

Times have moved on but for some people they haven't - or is it more that it is Charles that has had this chance and not so much that he is the heir to the throne? Would they be so critical if William had wanted to marry a divorced woman?

 

[Tsaritsa]

In 1983, my then husband and I decided to round off our weekend in that area by travelling home via Fort Belvedere, not knowing that it was totally concealed by woodland!!! I explained my bitter disappointment to a friend who I knew to have spent time there. She said that she thought it a singularly unattractive building and when I said that I would have loved to see what the inside was like she replied "My dear, you would HATE it. It is full of THAT woman"!!!!!!!................and that was nearly 50 years on since "that woman" had been there.

 

[Dman]

Cadillac called The Duchess, made for Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson, set to fetch £500,000 after 60 years out of the public eye-
Cadillac 'The Duchess' made for Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson set to fetch £500k | Mail Online

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Has anyone heard that both David and Albert had fertility problems? And that the Yorks needed help getting pregnant because of them?

 

[Victorian-Dandy]

Well both of them came down with a serious case of measles and mumps which can cause orchitis.

I think that it might be the case with David but no so with Albert since he fathered two children, whereas despite the then Prince of Wales (David) playing the field there was never any resulting offspring.

 

[Ish]

The rumours with David and Wallis are interesting, to say the least.

With David, the speculation comes up because despite being somewhat of a playboy he never had children. The reasoning here is often assumed to be infertility because of the mumps he had growing up, although I've also read suggestions that his sexual behaviour wasn't one that resulted in baby making, or that he did have children but they were covered up and went unacknowledged.

With Wallis, the fertility speculation is that despite having been married three times and having had lovers, she never had children - although, again, it is alleged that she had a love child with David who was put up for adoption and went unacknowledged. Here the reasoning varies from her being naturally infertile, her being intersex or a man, her having had either her tubes tied or a hysterectomy without any of her husbands having known, or the result of an abortion gone wrong.

I'm not certain about the Yorks' fertility problems, although if I remember correctly the Queen Mum had problems with her deliveries and possibly her pregnancies as well, so I think any problems there may have been more on her end. That said, as they had two children we can assume that neither of them was infertile although they may have had difficulties conceiving (or may have simply intentionally delayed conceiving).

 

[KittyAtlanta]

I understand the DoW only had dalliances with married women. At that time, if a woman was married and became pregnant by someone else, too bad. The resulting child was legally considered the husband's child. There could be many, many children out there sired by the DoW.

 

[AdmirerUS]

Has anyone heard that both David and Albert had fertility problems? And that the Yorks needed help getting pregnant because of them?

I guess I would ask what the DM has to say about this - this topic is right up their alley.

 

[Victorian-Dandy]

I guess I would ask what the DM has to say about this - this topic is right up their alley.

Well played

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Good gracious I'm aware he had children I said so in my post. My question was has anyone heard or come across concrete info regarding the artificial insemination or if its just speculation.

 

[Osipi]

Good gracious I'm aware he had children I said so in my post. My question was has anyone heard or come across concrete info regarding the artificial insemination or if its just speculation.

This is just my supposition but considering the era and the fact that the royal family has always been very staunch church goers, I would imagine that the idea of using artificial insemination would never have crossed their minds. In 1959 the CoE issued a statement stating that the use of artificial insemination was 'morally wrong and socially harmful'. Even if by chance, this was a method that was used by anyone in the royal family, there would be nothing concrete anywhere and it would have been done very discreetly with as few people knowing about it as possible. If it had been made known at that time, I think as far as public outcry, it would make the abdication of Edward VIII that came later look like a walk in the park.

Historical Development of the Church of England's thinking on human fertilisation & embryology

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Albert seemed like a very moral guy and wouldn't go against the CoE. If even after he was dead they were still against it I assume in 1926 and 1930 they would be even more against it. I assume this story developed because they had their first child 3 yrs after they married and by c section.

 

[Dman]

Proclamation of Accession of King Edward VIII | From St James's Palace: January 21st 1936-
BBC - Archive - Edward VIII - Proclamation of Accession of King Edward VIII | From St James's Palace